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-   -   dock or not? advice? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/194985-dock-not-advice.html)

Kayceeh 02-06-2010 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2990175)
LOL...she's not. But seeing as she have problems the unfortunate experiences that you have described as having, that doesn't say very much about your vet does it?
Sorry I can't agree there. I've also seen videos of the same outcome so I really don't blame my choice of vets.
I think if breeders stuck together and chose not to do this procedure, then it would quickly become the norm for all breeds to have tails. Dogs don't care how they look, it's all down to our "human" selfishness. Dogs aren't fashion accessories and shouldn't have to look a certain way to please our eye. Dogs have tails for a reason, they use their tails for communication. I feel it's very sad they they need to have surgery performed on them to be deemed "acceptable".

friscomom 02-06-2010 05:53 AM
According to reports, garden variety breeders have not felt that they have an option, even though show folks and judges DO have the option, with the way things are stated at this time. Even if you DO show you have an option not to dock. I hear that Big Box Banfield and other vets have already discontinued the practice if done solely for cosmetic reasons, in America. Open head, remove stuffing!

topknot 02-06-2010 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayceeh (Post 2990567)
No problem. I understand that there of course can be problems with dew claws being harmed but no more than there is with all the other nails The other nails aren't removed so I don't agree that dew claws should be removed either. There are many humans who have lost and damaged nails also. I'm pleased that here dew claws are left as is.
As I stated before I worked as a vet tech and we had Many people came for a snagged dewclaw in with various breeds, especially the small breeds since they are often kept inside and the vet I worked for had to repair it. Infact my daughter's dog just snagged his last week and had to go to the visit. I have several of mine with dewclaws and they have gotten snagged. Most often too the nail grows around and will grow into the skin. I forgot to check one of my girls and it did grow into her skin. I had to use a human toenail clipper to clip the nail and then pull it out. I felt so bad that I had overlooked it for weeks to get this way. It is just not one I am use to checking since most of mine have had their dewclaws removed.
I also wanted to mention - that dewclaws can grow back if not tnough is clipped back and the time when they are removed.

Kayceeh 02-06-2010 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2990592)
As I stated before I worked as a vet tech and we had Many people came for a snagged dewclaw in with various breeds, especially the small breeds since they are often kept inside and the vet I worked for had to repair it. Infact my daughter's dog just snagged his last week and had to go to the visit. I have several of mine with dewclaws and they have gotten snagged. Most often too the nail grows around and will grow into the skin. I forgot to check one of my girls and it did grow into her skin. I had to use a human toenail clipper to clip the nail and then pull it out. I felt so bad that I had overlooked it for weeks to get this way. It is just not one I am use to checking since most of mine have had their dewclaws removed.
I also wanted to mention - that dewclaws can grow back if not tnough is clipped back and the time when they are removed.

So are you saying it's only dew claws that get harmed and you don't see any damaged regular nails? I've always had all my dogs nails clipped regularly by a vet, you don't think maybe these dogs that you are seeing are having problems because their nails aren't kept as short as they should be?

topknot 02-06-2010 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by friscomom (Post 2990576)
According to reports, garden variety breeders have not felt that they have an option, even though show folks and judges DO have the option, with the way things are stated at this time. Even if you DO show you have an option not to dock. I hear that Big Box Banfield and other vets have already discontinued the practice if done solely for cosmetic reasons, in America. Open head, remove stuffing!
All the vets around me I know for a fact - do still do dock tails. I do not use Banfield but do have to go to Pet Smart today. I also live in GA.

You should check on how doberman and great dane ears are cut - there is so much more to them. The vet I worked for specialized in this and let me tell you - this is the one I hate!! I was in charge of taking the tapes and bandages off with they would come back in and wrapping them back up.

topknot 02-06-2010 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayceeh (Post 2990598)
So are you saying it's only dew claws that get harmed and you don't see any damaged regular nails?
In my experience and the ones that came to our office was most all the time the dewclaws. I do know that the regular nail can get hurt too, but was rare and usually due to being stepped on my a person by accient. Where dewclaws are caught most often on carpet and furniture, blankets, etc... of fabric.

Kayceeh 02-06-2010 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2990606)
In my experience and the ones that came to our office was most all the time the dewclaws. I do know that the regular nail can get hurt too, but was rare and usually due to being stepped on my a person by accient. Where dewclaws are caught most often on carpet and furniture, blankets, etc... of fabric.
Okay, thanks. I actually edited my post but you'd already replied:D

I've always kept my dogs nails regularly clipped and have never had a problem. Do you think maybe the damaged ones you see are because they aren't being kept clipped short enough?

friscomom 02-06-2010 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2990541)
I just find having 3 threads on this topic overdone. I hope the admin with lock all these now since it is so overdone. <misinformation deleted>
topknot, there are now 91 threads on YT about docking, and 250 on hair bows. Go read up on what you feel is important to think about.

Britster 02-06-2010 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayceeh (Post 2990572)
Sorry I can't agree there. I've also seen videos of the same outcome so I really don't blame my choice of vets.
I think if breeders stuck together and chose not to do this procedure, then it would quickly become the norm for all breeds to have tails. Dogs don't care how they look, it's all down to our "human" selfishness. Dogs aren't fashion accessories and shouldn't have to look a certain way to please our eye. Dogs have tails for a reason, they use their tails for communication. I feel it's very sad they they need to have surgery performed on them to be deemed "acceptable".
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

BamaFan121s 02-06-2010 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayceeh (Post 2990572)
I think if breeders stuck together and chose not to do this procedure, then it would quickly become the norm for all breeds to have tails.
You are probably right. But apparently "most breeders" don't have a problem with it. ;)

It's one of those situations where "if everyone thought like me and felt the exact same about it and did the exact same thing...." Reality is though, that's not the case.

Kayceeh 02-06-2010 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2990688)
But apparently "most breeders" don't have a problem with it. ;)
It's such a shame that we can't ask the poor puppies for their opinion, after all it's they who have to go through the surgery. Just as well they do have some humans who will speak out on their behalf.

Mardelin 02-06-2010 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayceeh (Post 2990728)
It's such a shame that we can't ask the poor puppies for their opinion, after all it's they who have to go through the surgery. Just as well they do have some humans who will speak out on their behalf.
It is a pity I can't understand more of what they are attempting to communicate to me. But, if my girls could tell me more about whelping, and assuming it is not favorable to me. That's all it would take for me to quit, since it is my least favorite thing to do. That's probably why I only breed minimally; 1, maybe 2 litters a year and most of the time skipping a year.

topknot 02-06-2010 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by friscomom (Post 2990631)
topknot, there are now 91 threads on YT about docking, and 250 on hair bows. Go read up on what you feel is important to think about.
Excuse me.... how rude. I have been on YT for a long time and have never been replied to in this matter. I am talking about recent threads. I never mentioned anything about bows! I have been around a long time and am fully aware of the important topics. I think by me being around a long time (30 years) with this breed shows my devotion to this breed. I also go to all-breed club meetings, seminars, shows, helped raise money for dogs (fire/police canines), etc...
Also there is not much we can do right now to change this practice until the YTCA/AKC make the change and this as far as I know, won't be for another 3 years (to be allowed to change the standard). I do not think you are aware of this.
And if you are so concern about this - why did you buy a dog with a docked tail?? If you were concerned about this or felt this way - you should have done your research and bought a dog with an undocked tail to do your part to help support this. JMO!

topknot 02-06-2010 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2990739)
It is a pity I can't understand more of what they are attempting to communicate to me. But, if my girls could tell me more about whelping, and assuming it is not favorable to me. That's all it would take for me to quit, since it is my least favorite thing to do. That's probably why I only breed minimally; 1, maybe 2 litters a year and most of the time skipping a year.
:thumbup::thumbup:

Mardelin 02-06-2010 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2990837)
Excuse me.... how rude. I have been on YT for a long time and have never been replied to in this matter. I am talking about recent threads. I never mentioned anything about bows! I have been around a long time and am fully aware of the important topics. I think by me being around a long time (30 years) with this breed shows my devotion to this breed. I also go to all-breed club meetings, seminars, shows, helped raise money for dogs (fire/police canines), etc...
Also there is not much we can do right now to change this practice until the YTCA/AKC make the change and this as far as I know, won't be for another 3 years (to be allowed to change the standard). I do not think you are aware of this.
And if you are so concern about this - why did you buy a dog with a docked tail?? If you were concerned about this or felt this way - you should have done your research and bought a dog with an undocked tail to do your part to help support this. JMO!
Tina,

As you know I'm a YTCA member.......At this point it is not being planned....even at the end of 3 years. If and when it is opened again it will be with careful consideration and caution......

Mary


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