Questions for breeders about heats part II
 

ok..im sorry this is so long

my gidget has had 3 litters
she used to go every 9 months and we let her breed, each time. she did very very well. she is about 10lbs (now..shes gotten chunky as of late) she had each hefty litter in about an hr each time. everyone did great each time..and they are growing happy and healthy in their approved homes.

gidget came into heat at 6 months last time and she did tie with my male but he was very young. and she started to show i thought i felt one or two pups but in time she either absorbed them or it was a false. The heat was in Sept.

my older female we can not spay because we found out last year she has a bad heart mumor. so she came into heat this month..for a week i have been giving her and my male who is 10-11 months old now. alternative times in the crate.

Now Gidget has come in to heat again already, 4 months after the last heat and false pregnancy. I took her to the vet just for a rabies..i had the kids with me and really wasnt thinking to much about anything but getting in and out. well my oldest (hes 5) mentioned to the vet that gidgey was supposed to have babies but didnt and i piped in that i thought it was strange she was in heat already..and the vet mentioned that it might be a cycst on her ovaries and she might need to be spayed. her advice was to not mate on this heat and wait and see if the next one come in the following 6 months and then breed her.

im perfectly cool with waiting. i noticed that she just started her heat and she still has the dark blood and i wasnt concerned with her tieing with my male. my son yelled to me this morning that they were stuck! im so upset!

I know god laughs at plans..but i had goals...Teddy my new male is my first akc male with a nice background, small petite frame and silky long coat. gidget has great features and a healthy stocky body..i am really excited about the outcome of puppies from them. But now i feel like that might be up in smoke now. My goal was to breed her one last time..and any profit i get from that goes into a akc female. thats how i got teddy last year. But gidget is my first concern, shes my heart.

i dont know what to hope for..puppies or nothing. i dont know how to handle this. i pray that she doenst have any medical concerns

i guess im posting here to see if any one has any experience with what im talking about or advice on the heats and cycst, breeding and so forth.

thanks if i dont make sense please feel free to tell me because i have my young'uns coming in here every 2 seconds finding reasons to get out of bed.

I'm no professional but i think letting her breed every heat cycle is just absurd. Of course she's gonna have health issues pile up because her body has never really had any time to rest. You say she is your HEART, so choose. Do you love "her" or the possibility of those puppies and profit? I personally would have her spayed right away so i wouldn't have to jeopardize (sp?) her and her health anymore

since she typically only goes once a year and usually they go twice..i am comfortable with her breedings..if it was every 6 months then no i would have skipped one

that was not the vets advice, to spay right now..

Just something to think about, although it is a common thought that breeding back to back is "wrong" or something puppy millers do, the advice that breeders are getting now from Repro Specialists IS to breed females back to back and retire earlier. The thoughts are that the female is healthier when she's younger, and a heat has a hormonal effect on the body regardless of whether the female is bred or not, so the only REAL rest for a female is for her to be spayed. Therefore, if the female is healthy and bounces back from a litter well, it is being advised now that she should be bred back to back and retired by 4-6 years. There are SEVERAL articles out there concerning this new research and knowledge, but here is just one of them that I found quickly: http://www.traumhofgsd.com/The%20Deb...0a%20Bitch.pdf

I have always heard to rest them - goes back to late 70s and when I worked as a vet tech. Also if your vet says she may have a cyst I would not breed her. What is more important have a litter or the care of your dog. When I was a vet tech in the past - we did have a few people come to our clinic that experienced this with their dog. Most spayed their dog when this happened and a few waited and then we checked later. In some cases things straightened out and a few had problems and we ended up spaying in the end. The best advice is to either spay her after she comes through this heat or wait and have her rechecked in a month. This is just what I would do - my gut says to also check her thyroid levels first. We always waited till the bitch was out of season before spaying as they have a tendency to bleed more during surgery while in heat. Best of luck.

On your home page you mention coming soon from CKC register to AKC registration. I know that AKC is allowing others - mixed breeds and non AKC registered to register with them, but it is a seperate registration and they must be spayed/neutered first, so you would not be able to register CKC parents as AKC and then register their pups unless the litter grandparents were AKC. I just wanted to make sure you knew about this. I know it is a bit confusing at first this new allowance.

Breeding back to back and/or letting your girl rest, is a decision based on your girl's physical examination. However, you've stated that your girl has been diagnosed with cyst and the possibility of requiring a spay. In my opinion, take his advice. The health and welfare of your girl should be your number one concern. Get her to the vet and have her spayed now.......

I was thinking of your girl over night and really believe you need to spay her. Sounds like her thyroid or hormone levels are messed up and especially if she has a cyst you have no other option but spay her to take care of her.
I know you want to use her again for more puppies, but you have to think of her first.

By the way, visited your website; cute Pom/Yorkie mix.....is she part of your breeding program?

She is cute - but why breed her on puropse? There are so many mixes in the pounds now!

i want to thank everyone

the cycst really hasnt been diagnosed. i commented about the heat coming in early and her having either false pregnancy and the vet stated that there might be a cycst. to wait and see if another heat come again sooner. no exam was done or any work. i had only gone in for a rabies. they didnt see the need to do more at that time. i do not want to breed her until this is cleared up. if she has a cyst i will spay her. she does come first.

i understand how ckc and akc works...i know that i cant register ckc to akc. what i mean on my website is working my self up to akc from ckc. i love the breed, i love breeding and learning about the breed. but i do not have the same kind of funds alot of breeders have. so im working my self up and my dogs up to akc. which has been working well. i have now aquire a nice quality akc male. my next goal was the same in a female. and of course gidget would have been retired and stay here. if it turns out she needs to be spayed i have no problem doing that. i just have to alter my plans

my reason for posting is to see if anyone else had, had some experience in this and if i should rush to spay or wait it out like the vet said. could the false pregnancy and the early heat be her bodys way of straighten her hormones back out.

i was told by the vet that whether you bred or not their bodys automatically go into baby mode.

i asked them when i had her checked out with the false pregnancy about breeding every 9 months if that was what cause the false she stated no. that her breedings were fine. and most likely the male was too young and her body automatically thought it was pregnant since she usually breeds and takes. and to go ahead and try the next time...i have been reading and what i get is like what an earlier poster stated that right now the understanding is to breed young and keep the uterus active then spay and retire early. if she went every 6 months then no i wouldnt have bred her each time but being its every 9 months and she has never showed sides of stress i conitued on...until the false and the messed up heat.

thanks again everyone. i appreciate all the advice, help and care

my yorkie pom i bred once by accident and it turned out ok...so about 2 years later i had people that had purchased before for puppies so we bred her again..but it wasnt as smooth and then we found out about the mumors and we no longer breeder her

i think the next question was refering to the yorkie pom mix and why i bred her being there are so many muts in the pound

here if there is a small mix there is a waiting list at the pounds
rescues dont adopt to certain ppl ex. children, fenced yards, etc..i have worked with an organization off and on since i was 12 i know how they work.

2. i have a client base, i never have trouble with homes. we had the accidental breeding and wished we had kept one that was born we loved her coloring when we bred again to get one of the same markings but we didnt get one of that color and only had 2 which they had homes before they came out to see the world.

we arent breeding her now but i do like the yorkie poms and i have several customer that would like one..when i only had those 2 that were sold...i had 2 clients that were so dissappointed.

i love to bred, its my joy.specifically yorkies

I've never had a situation as you've described, but I've had other issues......Again, I would spay. I know if there is any question or unusual situation that arises with my girls...I spay. My girls on the average go every 8 to 9 months, but still rest a cycle and still retire at age 5....So, because they aren't bred until after they've obtained their Championship, they may only average 2 litters....I still would recommend a thorough examination, inclusive of an ultra-sound, blood panel, STD test to insure that she's in excellent health, and having it performed by a Repro vet.......

I am not a breeder, but but stumbled across this thread this morning.

You have now had two accidents. Honestly, I think you need to do some soul searching about why you are breeding; and how well planned it is.

You said that the vet said Gidget could have a cyst. Did she happen to mention that an ultrasound might reveal this? Or is it all guess work? You also mentioned not having funds. Are you prepared for an emergency? What if she has a problem pregnancy and needs emergency surgery? I really hope you have thought this out. It sounds to me as if money is talking more than the health of your Gidget. You did mention the word profit. You mentioned that you want to breed her with Teddy...and how those plans are "up in smoke". If she has an emergency or dies due to this unplanned pregnancy, your plans will be up in smoke anyway. I would seriously do some deep soul searching about what is important here. Are you willing to gamble like this? The life of Gidget and perhaps a litter of puppies?

I agree - I would have her checked out and spay her. Yes, a sonogram would be able to check into it further. I would ask for the sonogram and see. You can also do a blood test to also check for her blood chem. levels. These are the things I would do. You asked and just reporting my expert opinion. I hope it helps. If Gidget was born Sept. 17, 2006 - and you have had 3 litters from her so far to date! I would not breed her now - no way!

I have most of my females go into heat about every 9 months too and I always rest them. I did some research and this is what most of the vets on-line are recommending. Here is one: Yorkshire Terriers/Yorkies: yorkie breeding question, franny, litters

What exactly is a puppy agent for breeders - you advertise your services on your web page? Not a broker, right? Just making sure.

im running out and will adress the other post when i get back

no im not a broker, i thought since i was good at finding things i would try and connect people with puppies..nothing do due with me buying some and rehoming just searching for what people want...never really happened though

i have no problem affording the medical work if she needs it done

not all about money

I misread part of your first post. I am sorry...you did not say that money was a concern.

You mentioned profit, and I suppose I read it incorrectly right there.

My suggestion is to make an appt with the vet and find out if there is a cyst and take it all from there.

Somehow I missed the fact that she was bred again, by accident (sounds like, sort of, I guess). In any case - you should check into her maybe having a cyst. If she is pregnant, the cyst (if one) may give her a lot of pain and cause a possible miscarriage. I would check with your vet for all options and best plan to keep her healthy and safe.

Okay, here's what stood out for me:

1) she has a bad heart murmur (scary right there)

2) has 1 false heat/preg. - now possibly another

3) may have a cyst

No one has mentioned the PAIN that she is likely experiencing *if* there is a cyst. Raise your hand if you've had an ovarian cyst.... *Raising my hand*. Holy everything...I cannot describe the screeching, excruciating pain. In my humble opinion, I would not spend time w/ guess work here.

I would spay this sweetheart. :)

Here this may help - great reading on this topic: Canine Reproduction Part 2

Okay to understand -

* she has had 3 litters since Jan. 08. And the first litter was 5 pups. And she was bred again now Jan. 2010, and maybe she has a cyst.

* Last time bred and false pregnancy - bred to a young male - how old was he at time of breeding?

- also may have reabsorb pups if she was possible pregnant last time.

i will call my vet tomorrow morning and see what the recommed with the ultra sound and blood work

thanks

i breed because i enjoy it
what ever profit is made goes back into my breeding..when i stated i cant afford things like some breeders is that i cant purchase akc, top breeds just off the back of my hand...but i do keep money from the pups litters for vet cost..and i save for future yorkies

money is in NO way more then gidget

my soul is with the breed and my yorkies..thank you....

i have been on this site a long time..and i know how things can be taken out of context and mis read and people will see something in the post and go into another direction.

i know this is a public forum but i would perfer not to be judged on my moral responsibilities to my dogs. they are my heart. they do mean the world to me. if i didnt care i wouldnt be on here asking for information on what i might possible be dealing with.

i also have 2 young kids that like to open the crate doors and let the "puppies" out thats how accidents happen ..i think i need to invest in locks

I was not judging you! I was merely commenting on what I "thought" I had read and I since apologized since I DID misread it.
My last line was saying a vet is needed and clearly that is what you are doing. Good luck. I do hope Gidget is ok!

I would not lock my pups up ...if there was an emergency with one, you might have a problem getting to him/her quickly.

I would focus on my children learning what is not allowed.

I wasn't going to comment but my problem with this is that there is breeding poms with yorkies and if anyone is in this for breeding for the betterment of the breed and isn't in it for the money this wouldn't be going on...I don't mean to be rude but when breeding mixes in my opinion is not in it for the health and welfare of the dogs...they may love their dogs that's not the question but I will never condone breeding mixes plain and simple.

Donna

the bad heart mumor was a different dog

she went into heat in sept..tied with a 6 month old male had a false pregnancy..that was confirmed in Nov...now in Jan i have had 2 come into heat..one that i will not breed because of the heart mumor who can not be spayed due to the mumor per my vet. and gidget the one that just had a false pregnancy. im am working to keep them separated with crates buy my 2 year old likes to let them out..so they did tie once here in jan but i think its pretty early on in her heat so im confused that the actually tied allready. i was wondering if the reason she went into heat again is because my other female is on her cycle.

my vet did tell me that wether they bred or not the body automatically takes on the role of pregnancy and she stated that all dogs that go through the heat cycles have false pregnancy.

i guess my thought is i dont want to jump the gun..if she is just in heat because the other female is

she is in no pain my sister has had them in know they hurt
im not even sure she has a cycst..all the vet did was bring it up...nothing has been diagnoised we dont even know if there is anything to worry about


by the way my site hasnt been touched in a while..i need to delete it

im thinking my time line is off..i need to look at the paper work i think the first list was jan 07

I've had ovarian and uterine cysts.....very, very painful. My doctor immediately recommonded an ultra sound to investigate the intensity of what was going on with me internally. The whole situation resulted in a hysterectomy.

These wee ones don't have a voice.....so, the very much depend on us to make sure their welfare is taken care of......Most General Practictioner vets are not specialists in canine reproduction.

I guess my point too is there has been a lot of mistakes - whether they were caused by your two year old, ultimately the parent/breeder is responsible. You need to make sure this does not happen. You need to figure out how to be responsible. AKC does not like mistakes. Having a 6 month old breed - not good. Breeding mixes, twice is not good either (hope she is spayed now). I know how hard it is to keep young ones seperate from your dogs - the same reason I took a break when I had a family of my own. All I was doing was being a ref. to keep them both sperate for my dogs safety. It was not fair to my kids or the dogs. you cannot cage them all the time. Not fair to your dogs. I know you love them, but if you are going to be a breeder, you have to be cautious.

For your girl to come back in heat so soon, something is up with her system that needs to be checked out.