Someday breeder questions

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by blueskies

You can find some that will but sometimes they require a contract or to be co-owners on the bitch for a certain period of time. It sounds like you are getting a good start with research.

Let me add, whether male or female.....a reputable breeder would insist the dog; whether male or female would be Championed.....of course with a strict contract inclusive that all pups not kept by the the owner of the dog will be placed on a spay/nueter contract......

Therefore, placing a dog on an open registration requires a lot of responsibility with the biggest one being a mentor to the person that is purchasing the puppy........

[3FurryFaces]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Let me add, whether male or female.....a reputable breeder would insist the dog; whether male or female would be Championed.....of course with a strict contract inclusive that all pups not kept by the the owner of the dog will be placed on a spay/nueter contract......

Therefore, placing a dog on an open registration requires a lot of responsibility with the biggest one being a mentor to the person that is purchasing the puppy........

I have the utmost respect for Mardelin (Mary?) and her advice - she is always helpful and respectful to the posters on YT. I would like to add a little explanation of the reason most breeders insist on show contracts for the pups they place on open registration. AKC conformation showing's purpose is for the evaluation of breeding stock. It is not just whether or not your dog is pretty. Judges spend many hours and attend seminars and must learn a great deal about the breeds they judge. They must go to match shows and spend time as a provisional judge. They must evaluate the structure of a dog or bitch. Acheiving Championship in AKC validates that your breeders are sound by people who are carefully schooled in the standard of the breed.
Also you might want to do some research on line breeding, it is part of most reputable breeders practices to all or some extent. Look for a good mentor.

[dogmomof3]

I have a 4mo old yorkie girl. Her name is Lucy. We just love her she is wonderful. She is already 8 pounds. When I got her the breeder told me she should be about 6 pounds grown. Well that not the case. She is very tall, not chubby at all. She looks like a yorkie. Her hair started turning silver now it has stopped. I am not sure if she is a mix, we paid for pure bred yorkie that would be small but my lil girl is a big girl. Has anybody else had this happen?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dogmomof3

I have a 4mo old yorkie girl. Her name is Lucy. We just love her she is wonderful. She is already 8 pounds. When I got her the breeder told me she should be about 6 pounds grown. Well that not the case. She is very tall, not chubby at all. She looks like a yorkie. Her hair started turning silver now it has stopped. I am not sure if she is a mix, we paid for pure bred yorkie that would be small but my lil girl is a big girl. Has anybody else had this happen?

It happens to the best of breeders. This breed is a very difficult breed. And the only thing you can depend on with the breed is they'll make a liar out of you everytime.

Just to expand on what 3Furryfaces posted. Most reputable breeders line breed, this is done to set type. The dam and sire contribute to 50% of the puppy's genetic make up, grandparents 25% and greatgrand parents 12%......That is unless there is a dog you see frequently throughout the pedigree. However, because so many breeds went into the yorkshire terrier, at any given time a wee one may pop up or one that exceeds the standard. Doesn't make them any less pure breed. You cannot breed yorkies as in other breeds. In otherwords (just a bit scientific here); pheno type to pheno type as in poodles and know what you're going to get....

[dogmomof3]

She is very smart, was easy to potty train so I am very happy with her regardless of her size. I have a Shi Zu that is just a lil bit bigger and they love to play rough. So it really is a good thing she's not very small. My pom that is about 4lbs wants nothing to do with playing and I thought that they would be good playmates. So your right she proved me wrong there to. Thanks for the info, it does make feel better about the breeder.

[yorkiejunkie]

I have not read every post (I will tomorrow) but I wanted to answer

#3
I have lost 2 pups (back when I started breeding), 11 days old, they were happy healthy, and appeared fine. I thought everything would be fine. They were strong. I did not know that other females could not be around the new Mom, and her pups, and as a result 2 were killed, by one of the other females. It was a gruesome thing to find, when I got home from work. If I had had a mentor, back then, I would not have made that mistake.

[joeyandtanksmom]

first off, thank you to everyone who has answered my questions - I appreciate the new knowledge, and to hear your guys' experiences. I think it helps to see what you have gone through and learned. It was quite interesting to see about line breeding - I'd never heard that term before. It does make sense though. I will definitely be checking into at least watching some shows, if not participating at some point. I think that would be fun, as well as a good learning experience. Also, it makes sense about my question about you selling a female to a new breeder - not being a yes or no, I mean. I didn't even think about the fact that you would probably base your decision on whether or not you trust the person and how you felt about them...you would be talking about one of your own puppies, of course Mardelin - I really thank you for your insight and taking the time to answer my questions, I can see you are a very experienced breeder and want nothing but the best for the breed, and for all your dogs/puppies.

I would also like to reiterate a few things that I think some people just haven't paid attention to or understood...I do not have a female yet, and I do not plan to buy one for at least one year (the SOONEST I would get a girl would be about January of 2011, but it could very possibly wait until 2012). I am trying to do as much research as possible now, so that I am well prepared for when I have a female ready to be bred. I realize that I will see puppies die, and very possibly a mother. I am fully prepared for that. I work in a hospital and see death on a daily basis - I know it's different, but I feel that I am able to handle death, even of loved ones, well.

I know none of you "want to come off as rude", but really, I know that I could lose a dog, adult or infant, and I don't need to hear it 5 thousand times before I understand it. I was more interested in the vet bills of a litter with and without complications, opinions of selling to a new breeder, supplies I may not think of that I would need, and stuff like that. I know about the emotional side of it, and am prepared for it.

Again, I'm not planning on breeding until at least 2013, I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row way beforehand. Thanks

[joeyandtanksmom]

oh, and yorkiejunkie, it is so good of you to say this - I never even thought of that. Aren't you supposed to also keep any male dogs away from newborns, also? I've read that in a couple places. I can imagine it would be a very distressing thing to come home to...I will definitely never forget this little tidbit of information.

Originally Posted by yorkiejunkie

I have not read every post (I will tomorrow) but I wanted to answer

#3
I have lost 2 pups (back when I started breeding), 11 days old, they were happy healthy, and appeared fine. I thought everything would be fine. They were strong. I did not know that other females could not be around the new Mom, and her pups, and as a result 2 were killed, by one of the other females. It was a gruesome thing to find, when I got home from work. If I had had a mentor, back then, I would not have made that mistake.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by joeyandtanksmom

first off, thank you to everyone who has answered my questions - I appreciate the new knowledge, and to hear your guys' experiences. I think it helps to see what you have gone through and learned. It was quite interesting to see about line breeding - I'd never heard that term before. It does make sense though. I will definitely be checking into at least watching some shows, if not participating at some point. I think that would be fun, as well as a good learning experience. Also, it makes sense about my question about you selling a female to a new breeder - not being a yes or no, I mean. I didn't even think about the fact that you would probably base your decision on whether or not you trust the person and how you felt about them...you would be talking about one of your own puppies, of course Mardelin - I really thank you for your insight and taking the time to answer my questions, I can see you are a very experienced breeder and want nothing but the best for the breed, and for all your dogs/puppies.

I would also like to reiterate a few things that I think some people just haven't paid attention to or understood...I do not have a female yet, and I do not plan to buy one for at least one year (the SOONEST I would get a girl would be about January of 2011, but it could very possibly wait until 2012). I am trying to do as much research as possible now, so that I am well prepared for when I have a female ready to be bred. I realize that I will see puppies die, and very possibly a mother. I am fully prepared for that. I work in a hospital and see death on a daily basis - I know it's different, but I feel that I am able to handle death, even of loved ones, well.

I know none of you "want to come off as rude", but really, I know that I could lose a dog, adult or infant, and I don't need to hear it 5 thousand times before I understand it. I was more interested in the vet bills of a litter with and without complications, opinions of selling to a new breeder, supplies I may not think of that I would need, and stuff like that. I know about the emotional side of it, and am prepared for it.

Again, I'm not planning on breeding until at least 2013, I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row way beforehand. Thanks

So, glad you are taking your time. That is one thing that so many who start out don't seem to do. They are in a hurry and it does come back and bite them in the end.

I know that it is stressed often about the great possibility of losing your female and/or the puppies during a whelp. It has been stressed over and over. And at times it gets on newbies nerves. But, no matter how many times it is stressed, nothing prepares you for that moment when it does it hit you. I know it hit me year before last with my Champion girl......Believe me the harsh reality of it was more than I could bear. You know something is wrong and you are helpless. She lived but, for 4 days it was horrible. Not knowing if she was going to make it. Seeing her with tubes and needles, being pumped full of antibiotics and fluids.....Leaving her with the vet's......Really scarey and the worst feeling is that my decision contributed to put her in that situation......

I'm going to be a bit blunt here.....and you aren't going to like what I'm about to say. If you came to me asking me for a breeding female or male....and said I'm not planning on breeding until 2012 or 13. It would immediately set off warning signals to me. I don't know if that is fair but, it is my natural instinct to feel that breeding is your main goal.....May not be....but, it does send that message to me.

Good Luck in your endeavor.....Research, research, research........don't go to the first breeder that will sell you a dog on open registration, go to the best, one that is going to mentor you and stand beside you every step of the way.

[yorkiejunkie]

Originally Posted by joeyandtanksmom

oh, and yorkiejunkie, it is so good of you to say this - I never even thought of that. Aren't you supposed to also keep any male dogs away from newborns, also? I've read that in a couple places. I can imagine it would be a very distressing thing to come home to...I will definitely never forget this little tidbit of information.

You are right about the males, and even as a novice I knew that. It is written in EVERY book! But no one told me, and I had never seen it written before it happened. Of course, AFTER THE FACT.... lots of people I spoke to say, "oh, I've heard of that... never happened to me..."

I am glad you are doing your research well before.

I will say though it is hard to pick a female, that will be perfect for your breeding program, as a puppy.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkiejunkie

You are right about the males, and even as a novice I knew that. It is written in EVERY book! But no one told me, and I had never seen it written before it happened. Of course, AFTER THE FACT.... lots of people I spoke to say, "oh, I've heard of that... never happened to me..."

I am glad you are doing your research well before.

I will say though it is hard to pick a female, that will be perfect for your breeding program, as a puppy.

You are so right. Whether female or male; they should not be obtained prior to the age of 7 months of age and have all the attributes of a show dog...in other words be as close to standard as possible.

I never allow my pups run with males until they are well over 5 months of age and only when closely supervised. Males just tend to be a bit more aggressive and you don't want a pups self confidence messed with.

[yorkiejunkie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

So, glad you are taking your time. That is one thing that so many who start out don't seem to do. They are in a hurry and it does come back and bite them in the end.


Good Luck in your endeavor.....Research, research, research........don't go to the first breeder that will sell you a dog on open registration, go to the best, one that is going to mentor you and stand beside you every step of the way.

[WinstonMom]

You have been given some excellent advise. Should you wish to at some point purchase a top quality dog you are probably going to have to become involved in showing your dogs. In my opinion you may have to become involved with showing first, breeding later. Showing is the name of the game, breeding goes along with showing. Actually, I know a lot of people who show males only, because breeding is not their thing. Should you obtain a yorkie that has done well in the show ring, you may wish to breed that dog in order to try to reproduce or improve on the qualities that the dog has. Improving with every litter is the goal. Most breeders with top quality dogs only breed to produce show dogs for themselves. That being said, you may have a little trouble obtaining a really good female as most breeders keep the females for their own breeding programs. Good quality females are a precious commodity. In my experience, it is much easier to find a breeder that may co-own a male with you in order for you to get your feet wet in the show ring. Go to a few dog shows, it is a great fun experience, talk to some breeders and maybe you will find yourself hooked.

Audrey

[joeyandtanksmom]

Thanks again for the advice. I am interested in showing, but I don't know that I'm allowed to begin my Tank in showing, as he's already 14 months old. He is AKC, but I didn't really start researching stuff and getting interested until a little while back...am I allowed to start in adult shows, rather than puppy shows?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by joeyandtanksmom

Thanks again for the advice. I am interested in showing, but I don't know that I'm allowed to begin my Tank in showing, as he's already 14 months old. He is AKC, but I didn't really start researching stuff and getting interested until a little while back...am I allowed to start in adult shows, rather than puppy shows?

Little help here...

He can compete in the 12 to 18 month class......Get him entered as soon as possible....just for the practice of being in the ring.....Once he turns 18 months and 1 day, he'll have to be entered in American Bred (very few people enter there, but itis an option until both of you feel comfortable)....then go on to Open Class......This Class tells the judge your dog is ready to win.

Contact a local Kennel Club, check and see if they hold any local comformation classes.......great training for both of you.........

Get to shows as soon as possible....best way to get to meet people that can help you get started.......

Another suggestion....if you are truely interested.....start buying that show equipment.....little by little.....it get's expensive if you attempt to buy it all at once. I had all of mine prior to even finding my first show dog. That 1st show dog purchase is not cheap. Same as your whelping equipment.

Go to the AKC website....some info on for Novices on showing.....also, many Kennel Clubs are holding seminars at their shows for the Novice......