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-   -   my yorkie is prego, got a few questions (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/191568-my-yorkie-prego-got-few-questions.html)

WinstonMom 12-17-2009 06:41 PM
I too am very sorry about the loss of your wife. Your puppies are lovely and your little girl looks like she is a wonderful mother. Enjoy your puppies. My earlier posts were not meant as bashing you personally. I am sure you love your dogs as do we all and that you are a wonderful dog owner with your dog's best interest in mind. I just get to ranting occasionally when I think about pet over-population.

Audrey

Ladymom 12-17-2009 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2920370)

Ladymom, I wasn't attacking you in my earlier post but I think you can see my point just as I can see yours. LS is the big bug-a-boo for the breed, to be sure. I'm not sure I would have ever gotten my first Yorkshire if I had seen that statement early on. The actual data is concerning enough but that one statement is downright alarming taken by itself.
I didn't feel attacked. ;)

Since the statistic is taken directly from the UT website, though, it's hard for a lay person to dispute.

I think the high incidence of liver shunts in Yorkies, whatever the statistic, should be alarming.

This information from Dr. Center needs to be posted again and again IMO. It doesn't seem like Yorkie owners are routinely getting a bile acids test done as Dr. Center recommends.

2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. How old dogs should be at he time of initial testing has not been established. Typically, abnormal bile acids DO NOT normalize as a dog ages ..... (all emphasis added by Dr. Center)

Woogie Man 12-17-2009 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2920495)
I didn't feel attacked. ;)

Since the statistic is taken directly from the UT website, though, it's hard for a lay person to dispute.

I think the high incidence of liver shunts in Yorkies, whatever the statistic, should be alarming.

This information from Dr. Center needs to be posted again and again IMO. It doesn't seem like Yorkie owners are routinely getting a bile acids test done as Dr. Center recommends.

2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. How old dogs should be at he time of initial testing has not been established. Typically, abnormal bile acids DO NOT normalize as a dog ages ..... (all emphasis added by Dr. Center)
I'll take it for what it is, but the data I cited was Dr. Tobias' own and the data and your referenced statement just don't come together for me, no matter how I look at it. The data is worrisome, however, no matter which source is used.

Oh, well, enough of splitting hairs. Have a good evening.

Mardelin 12-17-2009 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinstonMom (Post 2920263)
And I started off as a backyard breeder, I bought the best dogs I could,but I couldn't convince anyone to sell me the dogs I really wanted. I was educated regarding the breeding and whelping process, I didn't hesitate to get vet care for my dogs, but I wasn't showing and didn't care about the breed standard. The light came on for me when I tried to buy a girl with breeding rights and the breeder asked me "Can you think of any reason to breed a dog that is not a Champion?" and I couldn't think or a darn thing that wasn't a truly selfish reason. I don't really 100% agree that every breeding dog has to be a champion, I won't bypass a female with structure just because I don't love her coat,for example, but every breeding dog should IMO be an excellent example of the breed.

Audrey
I agree with you 100%. Not every dog has to be Champion, although that is what I strive for in my breeding program. But, I do believe it should be a great speciman of the breed. And if a dog is structurely sound, I'm not going to throw the cake away because the icing isn't perfect......Coat can be fixed. The last female I took out in the ring had everything, however, she lacked a Major to finish. Circumstances in my life prevented me from finishing her, and she was approaching 3 years old......I bred her. I wish circumstances would have been different, she deserved the Championship title....So, maybe one of her offspring will make it.

JeanieK 12-18-2009 08:56 AM
On the LS. Why don't we do our own poll on YT to determine the % of LS and it's relationship to where they came from, ie puppy mill byb, pet store, hoby, or show breeder

Creat the thread, then post the link to ll of the forums.

livingdustmops 12-18-2009 10:32 AM
Here is a health survey that was done by the YTCA foundation:

Health Survey 2007

Interesting

Ladymom 12-18-2009 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2921177)
Here is a health survey that was done by the YTCA foundation:

Health Survey 2007

Interesting
Very interesting, Cindy. Thanks for posting it.

It's scary that more than one third of Yorkies are born with liver shunts or Legg-Calf Perthes.

The good news is that the majority of Yorkies live to be 15 years old. :thumbup:

Mardelin 12-18-2009 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2921177)
Here is a health survey that was done by the YTCA foundation:

Health Survey 2007

Interesting
Yep! Alot of us participated in the survey

livingdustmops 12-18-2009 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2921184)
Very interesting, Cindy. Thanks for posting it.

It's scary that more than one third of Yorkies are born with liver shunts or Legg-Calf Perthes.

The good news is that the majority of Yorkies live to be 15 years old. :thumbup:
I know the survey is smaller than some people might want but I thought it was very interesting looking at some of the data. While I knew about Liver Shunt there were other things that really surprised me.

Ladymom 12-18-2009 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2921192)
I know the survey is smaller than some people might want but I thought it was very interesting looking at some of the data. While I knew about Liver Shunt there were other things that really surprised me.

Me, too. I was surprised that Legg-Calf Perthes is more common than luxating patellas. I was also surprised how common epilepsy is in Yorkies. Judging from threads here, I though liver shunts were the cause of most seizures.

I am so glad the YTCA is being proactive about the future health of the breed.

Woogie Man 12-19-2009 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2921189)
Yep! Alot of us participated in the survey
Mary, since you participated in the survey, maybe you could answer this. I was looking and saw that there were 220 responses to the survey but see no mention of the number of dogs. Assuming that many who responded were breeders, some with many years of breeding, I would think that there would be many more dogs than respondents.

I was able to see by the graphs the number of dogs affected by various conditions but can't relate that in any meaningful way without an idea of how many dogs overall these numbers were taken from.

Thanks for any help.

Jim

Mardelin 12-19-2009 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2922073)
Mary, since you participated in the survey, maybe you could answer this. I was looking and saw that there were 220 responses to the survey but see no mention of the number of dogs. Assuming that many who responded were breeders, some with many years of breeding, I would think that there would be many more dogs than respondents.

I was able to see by the graphs the number of dogs affected by various conditions but can't relate that in any meaningful way without an idea of how many dogs overall these numbers were taken from.

Thanks for any help.

Jim
Since this was 2007, my memory is foggy as to how the questions were presented. I think it was broken down by Kennel owner, the number of dogs in each kennel that had a particular health issue......don't quote me, I do have CRAFTS disease and I've slept since then.

Woogie Man 12-19-2009 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2922077)
Since this was 2007, my memory is foggy as to how the questions were presented. I think it was broken down by Kennel owner, the number of dogs in each kennel that had a particular health issue......don't quote me, I do have CRAFTS disease and I've slept since then.
Hahaha....okay, I won't hold you to it. I guess we can at least see which conditions crop up most often, but how often may remain a mystery.

WinstonMom 12-19-2009 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2922077)
Since this was 2007, my memory is foggy as to how the questions were presented. I think it was broken down by Kennel owner, the number of dogs in each kennel that had a particular health issue......don't quote me, I do have CRAFTS disease and I've slept since then.
I have never heard that one before and my first thought was "poor Mary has CRAFTS disease" so I had to google it. Just found out I have it too.:D

Audrey

danny7481 12-19-2009 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinstonMom (Post 2920489)
I too am very sorry about the loss of your wife. Your puppies are lovely and your little girl looks like she is a wonderful mother. Enjoy your puppies. My earlier posts were not meant as bashing you personally. I am sure you love your dogs as do we all and that you are a wonderful dog owner with your dog's best interest in mind. I just get to ranting occasionally when I think about pet over-population.

Audrey
thank you, and there are definitly no hard feelings. i now understand where yall were coming from and i do regret breeding her while not knowing the first thing to do, i mean luckily everything went well, but what if there was a problem, i wouldnt have known. i personally think im a great dog owner and i do what wants best for my dogs, but as far as knowledge, definitly need to work on that :)


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