Show breeders breeding sickness instead of health....
 

I just came across this documentary from the BBC in the UK....The film is a disturbing and sad film concerning the dramatically declining health and the wide spread genetic problems that are putting dogs in jeopardy of extinction.....

The show breeders are refusing to acknowledge that a problem exists and they will purposely breed dogs with genetic issues because the breed clubs are refusing to change their breed standards. The breed clubs are most concerned with looks and beauty than health or genetics and will encourage inline breeding to get the desired look.

I was so disturbed to see a Ridgeback breeder openly admit that even though a ridge back is a deformity they will breed for it and will kill the healthy pups that don't carry the ridge. :( Equally disturbing is the Caviler King breeders breeding their dogs with a genetic brain defect in which the brain can not fit inside the skull......And Danny the Pekineses that has a genetic disease and they continue to breed him because he won Crufts....All this breeding is being done by show breeders for beauty. So, so sad and disturbing.....Click on the blue band on top of the box if you care to see the film.....

this has been making the rounds for quite some time. A few yorkie people try to deny that it happens to our breed but they know it does. I put my girl in an AKC show a couple of years ago and was talking to the other exhibitor in my class. She was not the breeder of the dog, but she told me her dog and it's two sibling whom she had also purchased had just tested positive for Liver Shunt and were in the research group. Her dog beat mine by the way for first place. She has posted about her dogs on here in the breeder review section. And just so you know of course she did not breed them and as far as I know, she didn't show that one anymore.

Amazing, so why was she showing this dog, if it had LS.....what is wrong with some people.....

There are some breeders that attempt to bury their heads in the sand....keep things hush, hush. Now no breeder wants to shout it from the roof tops that their dogs produced genetic problems.....However, if such problems should arise.....the right thing to do is spay/nueter the two......the families of litter siblings should be contacted to let them know. And be there as a breeder.

mary, the way she was talking, she had just found out about the one she was showing a day or so before the show. and was in the process of contacting, I believe, Dr. Centers. She was really rattled about it. The dog was not sick and was gorgeous. No signs at all. One of her others had shown symptoms so she had all of them tested and had just recieved results. She wrote me later and said they had all three been accepted into the study group. I agree that the parents should be spayed/neutered. The breeder i this case would not accept any responsibility at all. So sad. In all my searching for good lines, I have come to believe that there are very few lines out there that has not had some kind of problem but it is all in how the breeder deals with it.

Thanks,

Now in reference to the OP.....The UK Kennel Club is in the process of reevaluating each breed standard and putting strict guidelines and rules in place for breeders.....Testing is becoming manditory. So, as you said, what was posted has been around for along time.....

Hi Dee, I have to say I was so shocked to see the changes that are occurring in all the pure breeds and all the health problems that are just being ignored for the sake of a good looking dog. Sadly, I don't believe this is exclusive to the UK I think this film applies here also ......The state of the breeds are suffering so much for the sake of some ribbons. I just couldn't believe that one woman's casual mention of killing healthy pups. Just shameful......

Mary, your one of about 4 breeders on this forum I've always admired .....your ethics are something to be admired... wish more breeders where like you...

I think the good breeders are few and far between....I will never forget about this show breeder that told me about another show breeder marching two of her beautiful healthy yorkies into a vets and having them put down for no other reason than her ego was bruised because her dogs didn't score any points in a competition.....To this day it makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it.....The coldness of some breeders is chilling.....

Mary, I have a question .....When a dog is entered into a competition do they have to submit some sort of DNA to check for health problems?? I'm not sure how much info a DNA will show...... And do show breeders that are members of clubs have a vote in what the standards are going to be in the breed?....Thanks for helping to understand.....

There is no DNA marker to determine whether your yorkie is a carrier of a genetic defect. As a breeder one should have tests performed on your breeders to insure that they themselves do not have problems. Scientific studies on LS still has not determined how, where LS is passed on. They've bred to LS dogs and they produced no LS offspring....they've bred dogs that have tested free of LS and they've produced LS puppies.....It's a dreaded disease and plagues us all.....it scares the begeezes out of me.

Yes, problems exist in the US, YTCA is now funding an operation for their members for health studies....are we leaning to manditory testing, I think most members are doing that anyway and I said most. Will AKC begin to stear in that direction.....not sure....

DNA is only submitted to AKC for identifying parentage.... a male that has produced 7 litters in his lifetime must have a DNA on record with AKC. Some breeders do have their girls DNA's

I truely feel that not just anyone should be allowed to be a breeder. You should have to prove that you have the education about the breed, and have some compassion. There should be many steps that need to be taken. I am not a breeder, nor do I want to be. I have 2 that I want to breed for me and only me, and only once. Some people disagree with that, and that's fine. It won't make me change my mind. I could not believe the dogs I seen when I was looking for a female. I know I'm getting off the subject, but Its a real shame what some people do to these dogs.

Thanks for answering, you always seem to know the answer...:)

I'm just now looking at the AKC and breeding out of curiosity and I'm finding the whole issue fascinating yet very disturbing.......

If I'm understanding this right is this correct.....each breed has it's own unique club.... members of their club set the standards for what their particular breed should look like. Over time the standard has changed so breeders have gone along with the "rules" and bred to meet those changes. If they didn't then the dog can not enter into competitions because it does not have the correct look. Some of those changes have caused the dog to have health problems and physical problems in part because the gene pool is too limited ( too close in relation)....Is that close enough in a nut shell?....:)

I the documentary the issue seems to be that the dogs are not only having genetic problems but it far worse than that because the dog is being bred to change its looks entirely and that is having detrimental consequences for the dog. For instance....The pug is unable to breath because the standard says to have a very short muzzle...The Cavalier Kings head is only to be so large and it's brain can't fit in....The German Shepard can barely walk because the standard wants the back legs shorter than the front...etc.etc

I see I've just scratched the surface on this subject.....:)

I understand what your saying, but this is the USA.....and it would be infringing on peoples rights.....all we can do is educate....

Things have evolved so much since I was a kid....nobody spay/nuetered their dogs, they were fed table scraps....vet, shots???????? I think that the population hasn't caught up with the times in their thoughts of breeding and pets.....

If I'm understanding this right is this correct.....each breed has it's own unique club.... members of their club set the standards for what their particular breed should look like. Over time the standard has changed so breeders have gone along with the "rules" and bred to meet those changes. If they didn't then the dog can not enter into competitions because it does not have the correct look. Some of those changes have caused the dog to have health problems and physical problems in part because the gene pool is too limited ( too close in relation)....Is that close enough in a nut shell?....:)

A bit more complicated than that....and it would be getting into genetics and correct breeding a bit too complicated.

But, what has really happened is that breeders have bred undiscrimenately....not taken the time to know what their doing.....Look at what is happening to the yorkie.....It's the #2 breed in the country....WoW! lets hop on the band wagon and make a buck....get 2 dogs put them together and sell puppies for big bucks, these people have not and do not take the time to do it correctly ......Yes, there are breeder exhibitors that breed on a larger scale, they are the ones that have good financial backing. But, for the most part breeder/exhibitors breed on a very limited basis, so that they can do it correctly. But, either way they have taken the time to learn and educate theselves on everything yorkie/canine....showing is all they're involved it.....much more to the world of yorkie than tat.

The yorkie gene pool is not too limited....

Ok Mary, back to class for me...lol Thank you for trying....:)

Lots to learn....but, at least you want to.....

that is so sad..i'll save an argument by not voicing what I really feel

I find the title of this thread rather appalling. I'm afraid Mardelin has her work cut out trying to educate and inform people that know little to nothing about show breeder/exhibitors. Yes, there may be a few that have little concern for genetic health problems and are only concerned about the dollar, BUT, I have found that is definitely not the majority but a very definite minority! I have known breeders and exhibitors for many years and I'm happy to say, I have never known one such as you are describing. They instead spend so much time studying and researching anything and everything they can to breed for health along with "the beauty" and the standard and if a problem were to show up, the dogs would certainly not be bred. If you want to crusade for the genetic problems in Yorkies or other breeds, then start knocking on the doors of all the back yard breeders, puppy mills, pet stores and jane does that "just want their baby to have puppies for all their friends and family". It's no wonder there are so few show breeders that come on YT anymore. Most don't have the patience that Mary has and just say to heck with it. Sorry, I'm tired and this kind of attach on show breeders has just got on my last nerve.

I feel the OP is just trying to educate. I"m sure she had no intentions on attacking anyone but instead just posted a video that stated facts. What everyone needs to realize is that there are bad breeders in many dif forms. Its time everyone opened their eyes to the truth and realize that it's not just byb, puppymills and pet stores that are bad but in fact there are many forms of bad breeders. you yourself chose to take offense to the cold hard facts..she is just trying to educate. If yu and your friends practice good breeding ethics we all applaud you, but what you need to realize is not all show breeders do the same.

Were you aware that the video that was posted was sponsored by PETA and they went on the crusade during the Crufts shows....Yep! good ole PETA.
Were you aware that they dressed in KKK garb and boycotted the Westminster shows in NY this year......

No one is saying this stuff doesn't exist.....but, the video posted in the show section did appear to be a statement against exhibitor breeders....And the exhibitor breeders I know do practice ethics and good breeding practices.....the ones that don't I don't associate with.....

If one wants to educate....one needs to gather the facts and speak from first hand experience...

Thank you for your informative posts as always. How do you say to some they need to sit back for awhile and watch and take time to learn before jumping on all the bandwagons and defending the wrong actions. I've been a member here at YT for years, my advice is watch and learn from the "real pros". After a while of watching you learn who they are.

I don't know how to tell someone that...I guess it's something that is learned with time.

YOu said so yourself you don't know ALL breeders sohow can you make this statement. I'm not getting into a battle with you.

Ok, I just have to ask you how long you've owned a yorkie, researched the breed.... and now you are trying to educated a yorkie show breeder? I hope you know that some documentaries show only one side, sometimes the information is not correct or very biased...... I'm not trying to offend or be rude but I, even after all my years of research, learning and having a couple show mentors of my own, would never say such a thing to a show breeder.

What part of the statement are you referring too. How can I make the statement, I just did.......And what I was referring to was the video......it was in efforts to boycott the Cruft shows.....amazing huh! And did you know because of PETA's antics the show was not able to be televised......

There is nothing referring to any particular breeder....However, I do know a lot of reputable breeders all over the country......and a few not so reputable ones. The dog world is very small, when it comes to knowing who is who in the zoo.

Where in my post did I try to educate? I stated that the OP posted somthing of interest that we may learn from. That we do need to look at all sides. I"m sorry but we all know and must admit there are bad breeders and yes evenshow breeders. THats not to say all or even the majority.

I see...

There, I'm glad you see that but to me it is very disrespectful. I can see why the show breeders get so upset. I'm sorry you can't see your own mistakes before trying to teach others. :confused:

Personally I didn’t see where she said anything disrespectful.
And, it doesn’t matter who put the video out.
Because it pretty much spoke for itself.
Over the years it’s shown the harm that has been done to different breeds by clubs who have set the standards.

It’s a fact.
A person can show a defective dog, produce many offspring and the kennel club will gladly shut their mouth and hold out their hand for money they make registering offspring .

I have NO respect for anyone who would purposely breed in such a way as to
cause harm and pain to any dog.

Well I did. The video showed one side of the show world in a very negative light. You talk about the harm, well what about all the good the responsible breeders have done for this breed or any breed, you don't see it? What a shame. Nothing is a "fact" just because it's on T.V.

I don't respect those breeders either that would ever cause harm to any breed and am very thankful to all the very good respectable show breeders out there who do their best to improve it. I just want to say thank you to them and all they do!

I saw that video too and the whole tv program several times, I think it's wrong of course but perhaps the program shows a very one sided and media jaded point of view. The yorkie show breeders here and the several I've met have never breed purposely for tinies......

From what I've seen and learned that to be a part of the show world and stick around you better be in it for the breed.

Breeze, I'm not talking about our show breeders here.
I think we have some of the best on this forum.
What few we have left.
I hate that we never hear from some of our older breeders anymore.. Like Yorkierose.
But, we have also had a few bad apples too.
So, there is good and bad.

I do Appreciate those who do right by the breed , their advice, wisdom and experience.
But, doesn’t always mean I'm going to agree with certain things.