Puppy Mill--What Is It? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

dcashley · 09-06-2009, 07:28 PM

To attmpt to protect our little puppies, and all of their offspring forever, I include a clause in all of the sales contracts. Part of that clause reads that the new owner cannot placee the puppy, nor any of the pups offspring in a puppy mill. (It goes on to say that the clause must be included in all future sales contracts of the puppy's offspring forever. I go on to define that a puppy mill is ANY place that has more than 4 unspayed female dogs, of any breed(s), or where the dogs do not live indoors with their owners.

What I am asking, is: what do the people on YT think? hat are the MINIMAL conditions necessary before a dog breeding program canbe called a puppy mill?

MntSnowBabies · 09-07-2009, 06:54 AM

Those are all good questions. I would like to see the suggestions that this thread can come up with.

bjh · 09-07-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcashley

To attmpt to protect our little puppies, and all of their offspring forever, I include a clause in all of the sales contracts. Part of that clause reads that the new owner cannot placee the puppy, nor any of the pups offspring in a puppy mill. (It goes on to say that the clause must be included in all future sales contracts of the puppy's offspring forever. I go on to define that a puppy mill is ANY place that has more than 4 unspayed female dogs, of any breed(s), or where the dogs do not live indoors with their owners.

What I am asking, is: what do the people on YT think? hat are the MINIMAL conditions necessary before a dog breeding program canbe called a puppy mill?

Many reputable breeders have more than 4 unspayed females and some keep their dogs in a separate building but that does not make them a puppy mill.

To me a puppy mill is someone that keeps dogs in little cages and breeds strictly for money without any regards to the welfare of the dogs or whether or not the dogs conform to the standard.

You would be better off if you sold your pups with limited registration or withheld papers until proof of spay or neuter is provided. You can also add a rehoming clause to your sales contract so that they cannot rehome a dog without your approval. From what I have heard it is not easy to enforce a contract once the dog is sold.

tegamom1 · 09-07-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcashley

To attmpt to protect our little puppies, and all of their offspring forever, I include a clause in all of the sales contracts. Part of that clause reads that the new owner cannot placee the puppy, nor any of the pups offspring in a puppy mill. (It goes on to say that the clause must be included in all future sales contracts of the puppy's offspring forever. I go on to define that a puppy mill is ANY place that has more than 4 unspayed female dogs, of any breed(s), or where the dogs do not live indoors with their owners.

What I am asking, is: what do the people on YT think? hat are the MINIMAL conditions necessary before a dog breeding program canbe called a puppy mill?

First, let me say welcome to YT. You've come to a good place for advice and learning.
Now, it really can't be said that a puppy mill is "ANY place that has more than 4 unspayed female dogs". Many long time breeder/exhibitors have more than 4 and they are certainly NOT puppy mills! You can put anything in your contract but that certainly doesn't mean someone is going to abide by it. The only way to prevent a puppy from being irresponsibly bred is to sell on a limited registration, spay and neuter. To me, there is little difference in a byb and a puppy mill, except for possibly more mass production. Both are only after the $$$$$ and proper care is not a consideration. I'm sure there are byb'ers that proclaim to "love" their dogs, but, love is not producing litter after litter without proper testing, lack of quality, and certainly not breeding to standard. It appears too often that some consider breeding to standard and for the betterment of the breed to mean 4 legs, hair and look somewhat like a Yorkie.
I'm sure you will get better descripitons, but this is just my short take on the subject.

Nancy1999 · 09-07-2009, 07:36 AM

Puppy mills are commercial breeders who have kennels that are in substandard conditions. The dogs are often left in the in a small cage their entire life, and get no exercise or grooming. Their hair is so matted it grows to skin and this is very painful. The bottom of the cage is often wire so they have to poop and pee right in the spot they live, and this goes against most dog's nature, the wire bottoms allows body fluids to go beneath the cage, but this area is seldom cleaned, and the smell is quite horrible, especially to dog's sensitive noses, and the wire is hard on their feet. The nails are often so long that the have curled and have grown into pads of feet. They get little vet care during pregnancy and whelping, and if sick, many millers just let them suffer and die because it's cheaper than vet care. In most mills, the dogs have never had any real human contact, and have been found with limbs chewed off because cages are kept so close to each other. To control barking and keep authorities from investigating, a rod is often shoved down their throats at an attempt at debarking. Dogs that have outlived their usefulness are often shot or killed in even less humane ways.

Not all commercial kennels are puppy mills, and I hate to see the words used interchangeably, it is possible to have a commercial kennel where the dogs are treated humanly, and have regular vet care, and access to food and water at all time, and are exercised. Many states are attempting to improve kennel condition laws, but commercial breeders have a powerful lobby and are fighting this legislation, and sending out propaganda to small breeders and using scare tactics to get them on their side, always saying that the legislation will affect the small breeder or show breeder, so then good breeders fight the legislation as well.

You can put anything in your contract you want, but what will you do if someone ignores it, do you say what the punishment will be? How do you enforce it? In my opinion, good breeders have a clause in their contracts stating that the dog will be sold with limited registration, meaning that that the dog comes with no breeding right, this protects the dog somewhat, if it was an AKC dog, but millers have just turned to unethical registries such as the CKC or APRI that will register a dog without breeding rights. Some breeders have taken this a step further and have all dogs neutered/spayed before selling them, and unfortunately, this is the only way to protect them against unethical breeding. It is much more likely that your dogs will go to some backyard breeder rather than a puppy mill. Mills tend to produce their own breeding dogs, or buy them at auctions. While a backyard breeder isn't as likely to treat the dogs so poorly, and may allow them to live in the house, they don't understand that not all purebreds should be bred, and we have many more BYB's than breeders who breed to standard, so this means that eventually the Yorkie won't look much like a Yorkie, and health risks are being passed in huge numbers because BYB's or millers don't do health screening. So I'd admire you for trying to protect your dog's offspring from the miller, it's also important to protect the breed as a whole from going to a backyard breeder. Choosing a proper home for your dog's offspring, is one of the most important things you can do for the breed, I would place the dogs in "pet only" homes.

jp4m2 · 09-07-2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tegamom1

First, let me say welcome to YT. You've come to a good place for advice and learning.
Now, it really can't be said that a puppy mill is "ANY place that has more than 4 unspayed female dogs". Many long time breeder/exhibitors have more than 4 and they are certainly NOT puppy mills! You can put anything in your contract but that certainly doesn't mean someone is going to abide by it. The only way to prevent a puppy from being irresponsibly bred is to sell on a limited registration, spay and neuter. To me, there is little difference in a byb and a puppy mill, except for possibly more mass production. Both are only after the $$$$$ and proper care is not a consideration. I'm sure there are byb'ers that proclaim to "love" their dogs, but, love is not producing litter after litter without proper testing, lack of quality, and certainly not breeding to standard. It appears too often that some consider breeding to standard and for the betterment of the breed to mean 4 legs, hair and look somewhat like a Yorkie.
I'm sure you will get better descripitons, but this is just my short take on the subject.

I have to agree with you that if the pup was spayed or neutered then it would be of no use to a miller. There are good and bad show breeders, BYB and hobby breeders and since there is no sure way to guarantee the best interest of the pet will be first and foremost with any of them, spaying and neutering is the best way to weed out unscrupulous breeders wanting the pup..

Nancy1999 · 09-07-2009, 08:16 AM

Here's a video that shows pictures of puppy mills and discourages people from buying dogs from pet stores, I just want to add the millers sell dogs through many different means, including websites and newspaper ads. To ensure that you are not supporting a miller, see the kennel conditions for yourself, if you don't have the time to do it, you don't have time for a puppy.

YouTube - The Truth about Puppy Mills

snoopygirlaf · 09-07-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Here's a video that shows pictures of puppy mills and discourages people from buying dogs from pet stores, I just want to add the millers sell dogs through many different means, including websites and newspaper ads. To ensure that you are not supporting a miller, see the kennel conditions for yourself, if you don't have the time to do it, you don't have time for a puppy.

YouTube - The Truth about Puppy Mills

Thank you for posting this. As heartbreaking as these videos are to watch, they really do keep your eyes open as to how evil puppy mills really are. I learn so much from what you post.

Nancy1999 · 09-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoopygirlaf

Thank you for posting this. As heartbreaking as these videos are to watch, they really do keep your eyes open as to how evil puppy mills really are. I learn so much from what you post.

I try not to post the really bad ones, it just depresses me too much, but you have to feel some pain in order to try to get things changed.

snoopygirlaf · 09-08-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I try not to post the really bad ones, it just depresses me too much, but you have to feel some pain in order to try to get things changed.

Very true

09-06-2009, 07:28 PM	#1
dcashley YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Redlands Posts: 1	Puppy Mill--What Is It? To attmpt to protect our little puppies, and all of their offspring forever, I include a clause in all of the sales contracts. Part of that clause reads that the new owner cannot placee the puppy, nor any of the pups offspring in a puppy mill. (It goes on to say that the clause must be included in all future sales contracts of the puppy's offspring forever. I go on to define that a puppy mill is ANY place that has more than 4 unspayed female dogs, of any breed(s), or where the dogs do not live indoors with their owners. What I am asking, is: what do the people on YT think? hat are the MINIMAL conditions necessary before a dog breeding program canbe called a puppy mill?

09-07-2009, 06:54 AM	#2
MntSnowBabies Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Craig, Colorado, USA Posts: 236	Those are all good questions. I would like to see the suggestions that this thread can come up with. __________________ Owned by Ms. Raeley and Mr. Riley Rip baby Miracle

09-07-2009, 07:36 AM	#5
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	Puppy mills are commercial breeders who have kennels that are in substandard conditions. The dogs are often left in the in a small cage their entire life, and get no exercise or grooming. Their hair is so matted it grows to skin and this is very painful. The bottom of the cage is often wire so they have to poop and pee right in the spot they live, and this goes against most dog's nature, the wire bottoms allows body fluids to go beneath the cage, but this area is seldom cleaned, and the smell is quite horrible, especially to dog's sensitive noses, and the wire is hard on their feet. The nails are often so long that the have curled and have grown into pads of feet. They get little vet care during pregnancy and whelping, and if sick, many millers just let them suffer and die because it's cheaper than vet care. In most mills, the dogs have never had any real human contact, and have been found with limbs chewed off because cages are kept so close to each other. To control barking and keep authorities from investigating, a rod is often shoved down their throats at an attempt at debarking. Dogs that have outlived their usefulness are often shot or killed in even less humane ways. Not all commercial kennels are puppy mills, and I hate to see the words used interchangeably, it is possible to have a commercial kennel where the dogs are treated humanly, and have regular vet care, and access to food and water at all time, and are exercised. Many states are attempting to improve kennel condition laws, but commercial breeders have a powerful lobby and are fighting this legislation, and sending out propaganda to small breeders and using scare tactics to get them on their side, always saying that the legislation will affect the small breeder or show breeder, so then good breeders fight the legislation as well. You can put anything in your contract you want, but what will you do if someone ignores it, do you say what the punishment will be? How do you enforce it? In my opinion, good breeders have a clause in their contracts stating that the dog will be sold with limited registration, meaning that that the dog comes with no breeding right, this protects the dog somewhat, if it was an AKC dog, but millers have just turned to unethical registries such as the CKC or APRI that will register a dog without breeding rights. Some breeders have taken this a step further and have all dogs neutered/spayed before selling them, and unfortunately, this is the only way to protect them against unethical breeding. It is much more likely that your dogs will go to some backyard breeder rather than a puppy mill. Mills tend to produce their own breeding dogs, or buy them at auctions. While a backyard breeder isn't as likely to treat the dogs so poorly, and may allow them to live in the house, they don't understand that not all purebreds should be bred, and we have many more BYB's than breeders who breed to standard, so this means that eventually the Yorkie won't look much like a Yorkie, and health risks are being passed in huge numbers because BYB's or millers don't do health screening. So I'd admire you for trying to protect your dog's offspring from the miller, it's also important to protect the breed as a whole from going to a backyard breeder. Choosing a proper home for your dog's offspring, is one of the most important things you can do for the breed, I would place the dogs in "pet only" homes. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals