Starting Out

[Baron]

boy, don't worry, I sure know about kids and their activities. If my kids were not grown and with families of their own now, I would not be able to afford the shows either. What with Soccer, Baseball, Track and BoySouts we were always doling out money too. Now I enjoy doing with my dogs, and your right, they don't know they are dogs. If we sit in their spot on the couch you should see the dirty looks we get.

[PinkMartini]

Originally Posted by Baron

Hmmmmmmm, the entry fees are the cheap part. For a 2 day week-end at a show it will typically cost us about 350 to 400 to show 2 dogs. That is fuel, food, lodging, grooming supplies, entry fees, for each dog for each day.

Yup! That's about what we pay when we show our dogue de bordeaux. Showing is definitely not cheap

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by YorkieLady

I understand, Baron. I just meant that for some reason I expected the cost to be well in the thousands of dollars. Even $400-$500 is quite a bit, so please don't think I was scoffing at the cost.
My son's ballgames cost about $300 a weekend, and he plays 2-3 weekends a month. That is if we are not playing close to a mall!! hahaha
I understand (now more than before) the cost and I am sure the time is unreal -- that is why I respect all that show dogs.
When I bought my two, I wanted to make sure they were healthy and within the standards -- but I wasn't looking for a show dog. I wanted a pet/companion - and these 2 are spoiled rotten. I don't think they even know they are "d-o-g-s"... <<<shhhhh, let's not tell them>>>

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Baron, but that's without paying a handler, correct? I know if you send them on a circuit it starts to really get expensive and if you win and have to pay a handler bonus and then advertise your win, etc., then we're talking about real money.

CJ

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by Baron

You mention about enhancing coats, no matter what you use, you really can't change the coat. Either you have a true silk coat, or you don't. No amount of color, straightening, conditioners or anything else will make a cotton coated dog into a silky coat. All show people have their own grooming tricks to make their dog look prettier than the others, but in the end, you still have to have the proper coat. Different conditioners will make the coat shine more, and using a straighting iron is done because show yorkies are kept up in wraps when not being shown to protect their coats, and the wraps cause the hair to be curly. Just like putting curlers in your hair. The only perfect dog is in the description of the standard, that is what everyone strives to achieve, but no one really can. Every dog has a fault of some sort. It may be the shape of the head, or the top line, or coat texture, or color. Maybe the feet are turned in or out just a wee bit, or the nose may be too long or short. The ears may be too large, or too small, or go out too much. It is all in your interperation, and that of the judge. Some judges select professional handlers over dogs, but you learn who they are and you don't enter a show that uses them. It is a hard battle when you are a owner/handler, instead of hiring a professional handler, but when you do get points, you know that it is because you have a good dog, and not because it is a professional handler.

It is such a pleasure to read your posts.

CJ

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by Baron

You can make a coat look like a silk coat, but it still does not feel like a silk coat, and a good judge knows the difference. Some judges will put up soft coated dogs because they like them, not because they are fooled into thinking they are silk coats. I have seen coats that look like really nice coats, but once you get hands on you can tell the difference.



I disagree, I know of a show breeder here in Oregon currently finishing a soft coat boy, he needs only one more major. You would never know he is a soft coat once she has him groomed for the show ring. There are many tricks available (many talented groomers can make silk out of a sows ear with the vast amount of products available). A professional handler will not arbitraily enhance a coat (dye it) unless he/she as a professional deems it necessary get the win.

[/QUOTE]

And the judge is always right because they're the only ones who get to actually touch the dog.

CJ

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by alaskayorkie

I was intrigued by this ethical dilemma but avoided answering it right away because of my lack of experience in this area. Everything I know about showing dogs I learned from your post.

However, since you posted the question to "all" and no one has weighed in, here's my .02. (I realize your question is hypothetical. Any references to "you" are just for lack of a better word):

The person in that position would have to spill the beans, if for no other reason than the alternatives are worse.
1. The owner fires the person who did it. They seek retribution and spread rumors how the owner consented and won points by cheating.
2. The owner doesn't fire the person who did it. He or she becomes a willing participant in the deception, making him/her every bit as responsible for cheating. And if that person has done it once, they might as well do it again. Also, it gives the person who did it reason and motive to do it again, to yours or another dog that might be competition.

The downside is you don't know how officials are going to react. Maybe the owner or their dog will be disqualified for life, and that's not a just penalty for the honesty and class it takes to "come clean." But I think the owner would have to take that chance, if for no other reason than the owner and the person who cheated (and whoever they decide to tell) will know that you knew about it and did nothing.

I think the circumstances would be the same whether you won points or not. The person who did it should be exposed. However, if you can't prove it, then you shouldn't slander anyone in public. Tell the judges it happened and you don't know how and take the heat yourself. And fire the hell out of the person you think did it.

Not being in that position, I don't know that's how I'd react. But I like to think so.

Wasn't my dog. I was responding to a post that someone stated that a handler colored a dog that they owned when being shown. Ethics were being thrown around- but I did not hear the rest of the story. Question was one of those put up or shut up things that come up in the conversations

I have not had to resort to changing the color- or enhancing or filling in the color for me to win. My dogs are shown by a handler who is often gave the dog the day of the show. My handler and I have a strict guidline of what the rules are and what can and can not be done- all part of our written contract with each other.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Baron, but that's without paying a handler, correct? I know if you send them on a circuit it starts to really get expensive and if you win and have to pay a handler bonus and then advertise your win, etc., then we're talking about real money.

CJ

That is right, using a handler can really up your costs. Handlers have more than just your dog, and you have to pay all the entry fees, even if your dog does not get shown for a particular show. Handlers can run anywhere from 50.00 to a couple of hundred a day to show your dog. I prefer not to send mine out to handlers. That way if, and when I win, I know it is because my dog is good, and not because of WHO is on the other end of the lead.