Mary, I have not had to supplement puppies very often but when I did I used a eye dropper and I let them take it in very slow. What is the down side of using a dropper? I know you have to be careful not to let them take it too fast or they will get it in their lungs. When you use the preemie nipple do you still worry about choking? I know the suckling action is important but if you are just supplementing a little does it matter? I am been so lucky that I have never had to hand raise a litter. What are your thoughts on tube feeding? It scares me. Just wondering your thoughts on this.

If you've had success with the dropper, fine. I found it a bit slow and tedious. Where as the nipple does allow sucking reflexes to take place (very important). I usually just plunge in a small amount into the nipple and allow them to suckle. Plus it allows you to measure the amount of milk being taken and document it. Great for communicating with the vets. The litter I was hand raising, just before they were introduced to lapping, were taking in 60 - 65 cc each.....piggies.

I've not every tube fed, and when I suggested it to my vet, (now mind you I took over hand raising of these pups when they were a week old) he was adamantly against it. Just to risky, with the possibility of inserting it incorrectly .

If I ever had to totally hand raise a litter then I would definitely use your method. I just need to find some preemie nipples. I have only looked for them once at Wal-mart and did not see any. I have the same feeling as your vet about tube feeding. It seems that I have not read too many successful cases where the pups were tube fed plus, like you said, they need the suckling reflex.

I had read somewhere that dogs are usually lactate intolerant. So when my girls need a pick me up, I give them soy baby formula. I buy the powder, and mix it, according to the instructions ( don't make it too strong, or they will get constipated...), in fact I sprinkle some on there food, right after whelpping, for the calcium, and iron. It gives them calories, and vitamins, and all that, without filling them up too much. Just a suggestion... works for me! :D

Your babes are babes... Mine were a week old yesterday too! Hope Cinnamon is feeling better! :)

Are you aware that soy is a calcium leach.

thanks for the advice! do you have any pics of your babies?? how many did you have? also, does anyone know where you can buy the right nipple for bottle feeding?? is it the same size as a regular baby nipple? (to me that seems to big).

I would never give a dog anything with soy in it, let alone a nursing female. Just google 'dangers of soy' and you can read why. I won't even eat anything myself with soy in it.

To Tube or Not To Tube
The answer to this depends entirely upon whether you want your puppies to live or not.

What! You say, tubing is the ONLY way to save puppies. And besides, it's fast.

Fast, yes, and deadly. It's one of those things that sounds too good (easy) to be true; and if it sounds too good to be true it is; we know that it is in our most private thoughts. Fast and deadly isn't doing your part by the bitch or the puppies. You may be certain that you are getting the tube in the esophagus (which leads to the stomach) and not the trachea (which leads to the lungs). But, this isn't the problem I'm referring to.

Consider this: when we eat, the process of eating stimulates waves of contraction throughout our entire GI tract. You know very well that as puppies nurse they defecate. That reaction is due to these waves of contraction, which are called peristalsis.

OK. So, we have a sluggish or weak puppy. We put it on the bitch and it won't nurse. What to do! TUBE. NO! If the puppy does not have a good sucking reflex, it will not have any peristalsis. This means the milk we force in through the tube will just sit there. When the tube is removed, it forces itself back up the esophagus, into the trachea, and ends up in the lungs. It does not travel down through the stomach into the intestine.

Now, how big is the stomach of a newborn puppy in your breed? 1/2 cc? Less? As much as 1cc? Probably not much more. That stomach is just a slightly wide spot on a narrow tube. So; let's stick 2 1/2 cc into it . Fast and Deadly. The stomach and esophagus will stretch a bit, then return to it's original shape and size after the milk runs into the lungs. Not going to raise many puppies that way.

I tube fed a litter for two weeks while momma got back on her feet. Then she was able to take over, thank goodness! They did fine, but I might have just been really lucky. If you are getting 10% weight gain per day I think you are doing great.

I would say you were lucky. I know others have done it successfully but I have read many more instances where the outcome was not good.

I just googled soy, and I had no idea. I guess I have been lucky!

Now not to say that in some circumstances it's the only way to go. My husband is a heart patient, soy milk is the only thing he can have.

KARA- I am so proud of you- the tails look great and what beautiful babies you and Cinnamon have. I love all the pictures. I know you have really worried about them and her. I think they should weigh a bit more but they look happy in the pictures. Like Mary and Barbara said, maybe they are just going to be small.

congratulations girl

thanks! I really appreciate this place more than anyone knows. if it wasn't for you guys, I probably would not have my little girl here anymore... you guys are great!
thanks to everyone and especially to the people that took a lot of time out of their day to post on this thread and call me to help with my situation. I hope to return the favor to many people.
Kara

I just wanted to let everyone know that I also put up pictures of Cinnamon and of the whelping box on photobucket. here is the link again.

Pictures by karak333 - Photobucket

does anyone have any suggestions on how to up her milk production??? I checked it this morning and almost nothing is coming out... I am making sure she eats and has her calcium supplement. I also give her a vitamin supplement called hivite. she does not have a temperature so I know its not because she is hot. she puppies nurse on her all the time so I would think that would stimulate more milk production... any advice??

Question when did you check her milk? Milk only lets down every 2 hours....Are you giving her whelping pudding....5 or 6 meals a day....

I checked it probably about 3 hours ago. yes I am giving her the whelping pudding and I feed her food as much as I can throughout the day.

Here's another suggestion......Mother's replacement milk.....

And here's another recipe that is said to improve milk supply,

Mix a large 4 cup size vanilla pudding, 1/2 cup of sugar, 4 cups of milk and 4 egg yolks. Cook on low heat to a pudding consistency and offer to mom (at body temperature). This recipe should not cause dirrhea, and supposedly brings in an abundance of milk. Let her eat as much of it as she wants to, probably 20 cc or more twice a day for a small (ten pound or under) dog

If you don't have a large 4 cup package of vanilla pudding on hand you can use the following. Mix in a saucepand and cook on medium heat to pudding consistency:

2/3 cup sugar
6 tablespoons cornstarch
1/2 teaspoon salt
4 cups mil (or one can evaporated milk plusa equal parts water to make a quart)
4 egg yolks
2teaspoons vanilla.

feed with a syringe, or spoon or let her eat it from a bowl.

aww Kara- she is adorable and your whelping box looks awesome- did you make that yourself?

Oh I hope one of the above recipes helps her to get more milk- did the pups gain any yesterday?

yes the pups did gain weight yesterday so I guess I shouldn't be too worried but I just thought that her milk would be overflowing by now. and yes, I made the whelping box with my dad. it's really cool because it is able to be lifted up so that I can remove the pee pad and replace it. then when it shuts and makes the pad tight. and it also has hinges and handles and everything, I was so proud of myself :D!
thank you for the recipe, I will try it right away. what kind of canned milk is it?? can I use regular milk from the jug?

well It is really awesome Kara- good job and lots of thought put into it.

On the milk I don't know if you could interchange fresh milk- I don't think so and canned milk is like Carnation Evaporated Canned milk or Pet Evaporated Canned Milk

Regular milk is good. But the 2nd recipe says you can substitute canned milk but, it must be diluted with equal parts of water.

Remember some girls get engorged with milk. Others have plenty but, don't look like cows. If you're concerned have the vet check her....

What an action filled thread!

hey guys, back again for a few questions.
okay well for a recap, Cinnamon and her puppies are doing very well. the pups are gaining good weight and Cinnamon has almost stopped bleeding and is eating better thanks to all of you.

okay, so the question is about Cinnamon peeing and pooping her puppies. I know she licks them in their pee area but I don't ever see her licking their butts and I have never seen their poop except for when they were a couple days old. I know that moms have a good way of keeping things clean but I haven't even seen poo smear on the puppy pads. I have tried wiping their butts with a warm cotton ball but nothing comes out. I am not really sure if I should be worried. I have just been confident that Cinnamon was doing it, but now I am not so sure. any advice??
thanks
Kara

Kara, I think that is normal. Cinnamon is doing her job. I didn't really see any poops until about 3 weeks. If the pups are gaining and not fussy, I think everything is fine. JUSt wait- you'll see enought poops- right now is the easy time:D

She's being a good mom, keeping them good and clean....if she wasn't diapering them correctly you'd know it, they'd be screaming and in lots of pain.....

okay, whew... I am relieved. thank you for your expertise :D
I am in ya'lls debt
Kara