Baytril
 

I'm not sure where this list of side effects came from...but the FDA and Bayer have concluded when given in the proper dosage and for the correct times Baytril is safe for canines....even pregnant bitches, breeding males and puppies up to 3 months of age. Baytril should not be given to growing pups between 3 months of age until full maturity (rapid growing phase) because of possible lameness and joint problems. You can read the full study at the website below....

From the NADA 140-913 study (FDA).....no adverse effects on breeding or nursing bitches.
Baytril (enrofloxacin) Antibacterial Injectable Solution 2.27% for dogs Veterinary Information from Drugs.com
No adverse effects were observed on reproductive parameters when male dogs received 10 consecutive daily treatments of 15 mg/kg/day at 3 intervals (90, 45 and 14 days) prior to breeding or when female dogs received 10 consecutive daily treatments of 15 mg/kg/day at 4 intervals; between 30 and 0 days prior to breeding, early pregnancy (between 10th & 30th days), late pregnancy (between 40th & 60th days), and during lactation (the first 28 days). >snip

Also here is the Freedom of Information Summary for Baytril....a combined study of NADA 140-441 and NADA 140-913. Pregnant dogs were given very high doses of Baytril with no adverse effects noted. The adverse symptoms began to appear in pups over 3 months of age.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalV.../ucm115727.pdf Ouote: Conclusions: Enrofloxacin tablets have an adequate margin of safety in dogs and cats when administered over a dose range of 5 to 20 mg/kg for a maximum of 30 days.

Just thought this might be helpful for those worried about Baytril as this is the official studies done for FDA before approval for use in canines. It should only be used with serious infections. Either when another antibiotic has not worked OR if a culture determines the bacteria is sensitive to Baytril. My vet does do cultures....he gives us the antibiotic based on the apparent severity of the infection while we wait for the culture to come back. When a vet guesses which antibiotic to use....he is actually placing the dogs life in danger. Although MOST vets do not bother with cultures to determine the exact med needed.

I don't agree with the FDA approval or have faith in what they say. My vet who is a Reproduction Specialist, when we were fighting a major infection on my girl and he put her on a mega dose of Baytril, informed me that the pups were going to have to be hand nursed. That it would cause fading puppy syndrome. He also believes, based on his studies that breeding dogs should be taken off of heartworm meds prior to breeding and while with whelp.

yea, I am very upset with the whole thing. if I would have deleivered the puppies I would have had a clamp on the cord so the placenta might have been able to have been pulled out and not have gone back inside her. and yes, an oxytocin shot was given to her at the beginning and at the end. I can't believe I would have probably done a better job at deleivering them than they did...

I know what most people believe...all I know is I've been using baytril for years. <g> With pregnant and nursing bitches.....and with puppies. Baytril was the only thing that saved a litter of pups for me 6 years ago when their mom died. The pups would have died also if not for Baytril.....it was the only med the bacteria was senitive to. Yes fading puppy syndrome is a serious conditon...when I've had cultures done it nearly always is an e-coli infection. And I agree....I do not give any heartworm med to a pregnant mom....either in whelp or nursing. I know the prevailing theory is to not use Baytril....but I've researched many studies and cannot find even one which suggests it is not safe. But we all do what we think is best for our dogs. <g> I'm not exactly clear on how Baytril can cause fading puppy since it is nearly always some type of infection which causes the pup to fade. At least my experience is with the necropsy's I've had done....they die from bacteria infection. <g> Like I said we all do what we feel safe with. And certainly we should be listening to our vet...as I do and I'm sure you feel safe doing also.

does anyone have any suggestions for trying to get Cinnamon to eat?? I have tried everything... the only thing she will eat is Ice cream. weird huh? I don't know what else to do.

Kara, I really can't think of anything else except for making the whelping pudding. Have you tried that? You definitely need to get her to another vet. How is she and the pups doing this morning?

Kalina wouldn't eat after her puppies were born either. A dose of Nutri-Cal and her calcium pill helped turn her around. I give her that every morning. She won't take either one willingly, so I rub the Nutri-Cal on the roof of her mouth and crush the calcium pill and mix it with a little water and use an eye dropper to get it into her. My house looks like a Vet hospital right now with all the paraphernalia I have around! :) I tried chicken cooked every way imaginable but she didn't want that. The only thing she will eat now with gusto is her puppy kibble mixed with a little bit of sirloin. She inhales that 4X per day. To me she looks very skinny compared to before she got pregnant, but way better than she did a week after the puppies were born.

I had to feed mine canned puppy food. The only kind she would eat was Avoderm. It was very very wet and super soft. After a few days I started mixing in the puppy kibble and weaned the wet food out. I also cooked plain chicken breast and cut it up pretty small and offered her that. She ate it grudgingly lol.

well Cinnamon has been acting much better. she is very active and is walking around the house and wanting out of her whelping box. I do have a question for everyone. Cinnamon just recently has been wanting out of her whelping box so I let her out to roam around and all she does is frantically pace around the house. I finally figured out that she was looking for another place to take her babies. she found a spot and then went and grabbed one of her pups by their leg and dragged them to where she found a spot. so, now I have to shut her box so she doesn't get up and relocate her puppies. any one else have this experience? and yes, her whelping box is in a nice quiet place in my room so I don't know why she would want to move them.

Her behavior is perfectly normal. That is why I always have the whelping box inside a exercise pen. I am so glad she is doing better. Perhaps the spot she found was a little more private in her mind. Since her pups are almost a week old she will want to start getting out more. Thanks so much for the update.

She's attempting to hide them. Some bitches do this. The only thing you can do is have keep her confined. Not allow her to roam. How is your whelping area set up? Are other dogs allowed to roam into the room where you keep her?

When Zoe had her pups, she would go out to potty and sneak off and start digging a hole! I swear she thought she was going to take them outside and put them in that hole! :eek: She was so focused on the pups at that time that I knew it had something to do with them. Anyways, I made sure I gave her plenty of calcium - cottage cheese, whelping pudding - and after a week or so she settled in and things were fine. But I would keep a close eye on her and make sure she can't move them.

no other dogs are allowed in here. I only have one other puppy, and he is 3 months old, so he is kept in another room. she wants to hide them badly. the whelping box was built so that the puppy pad that she sleeps on is very tight so the puppies can't get underneath it, but there is one little part that is exposed because the pad is quite big enough to completely cover the whole thing. I tried putting a towel down to cover the space but all she does is digs and digs and digs. she always hurts her babies when she digs because she does it right on top of them. so I removed the towel and this morning I only counted 4 puppies and I started freaking out looking for the 5th one. finally I notice it was underneath the pad! poor little thing was just crying and crying. I wonder if Cinnamon had anything to do with it... she has also been whining to get out and she jumps up and looks at me with this little whimper so I let her out and as usual all she wants to do is go under beds and scout out another place to take her puppies. she won't ever relax.

I also drape a blanket over the box to keep them nice a warm so I don't see why she feels a need to move them. it seems like a private area to me...

the box is also in my room sort of close to my bed, so I can keep an eye on them. the entrance of the box has pieces that slide out so if I remove them she can jump out but if I slide them back in she can't. they are also cut into two sections to accommodate the puppies as they get older.

Keep in mind that if the whelping box it too hot the mom will get uncomfortable and want to move the pups. I always keep the room temperature normally around 78 degrees but the pups can lay on the heating pad to keep warm. I have a puppy heating pad that keeps the temperature at 100 degrees and I have it just covering 1/2 of the whelping box so mom can lay on the cooler side if she wants to. Once the pups are around 2 weeks old they will be able to regulate their own body temperature and you can remove the heating pad.

Also I would suggest you NOT cover the welping box. Most bitches don't like this and that may be one of the reasons she os trying to move the puppies. Also it may be too warm in the box. As long as they are not in a drafty area it doesn't have to be overly warm.

Good suggestion. My girls are just too private.....they want no one looking at their pups so I have to cover the entire whelping pen. When I don't that's when they begin digging, trying to hide their pups.

WIth my last litter I had to have a lot of shredded newspaper in the box. Maggie would bury her pups under the blanket/towel so I put the newspaper in. She pushed news paper over them and then was fine. She just wanted to hide them. They could still breath, walk around etc. and Maggie was satisfied that no prying eyes would spot them. I put a blanket over the top of her box too, until she pulled it down to lay over her babies. Then I clamped it on. Then she jumped up there to sleep lol. Fussy little momma! Glad your dog is feeling better and the babies are coming along!

I use bottomless whelping boxes that my husband made and I just sit the box on top of the bedding, that way the momma can not bury the babies in it. I just leave a small fleece blanket or a hand towel in the box so momma will have something to cover them with if she feels the need to.

okay well, I have been weighing the puppies every night and most days they have been gaining weight but it was just those few days when she was really sick that most of them actually lost a little bit of weight. they are one week old already and I read somewhere that they should have doubled their birth weight and they aren't anywhere near that... should I be worried? they are gaining good now these past couple days. I have them labeled and will list off their birth weight and how much they have weighed the past two days.

birth
pink:3.5oz
girl:3.2oz
blue:2.9oz
white:3.4oz
non:2.9oz

yesterday
Pink:3.9oz
girl:3.7oz
blue:3.8oz
white:3.8oz
non:3.6oz

today
pink:4.2oz
girl:4.0oz
blue:4.1oz
white:4.1oz
non:3.8oz

let me know what ya'll think. I had bottle fed them as much as I could when she was sick. it was very hard, they didn't want the bottle so I had to kind of drop it in their mouth. I will try hard to get some pics. my computer has been acting up with trying to upload pics. plus when I try to load them, it says they are too big. also, Cinnamon is doing much much better thanks to everyone here.
Kara

That looks like good weight gain to me. I am glad that mamma is doing much better. Is she able to feed them now?

I know it looks like good weight gain but there are 4 days after they were born that aren't posted. I just figured it would be too much to put 7 days of their weight on here, so I just put their birth weight which was 7 days ago and the last two days, but to me it seems like they should weigh more in 7 days and they definitely have not doubled their birth weight. but yes, she is nursing them again, but her milk is still not very abundant.

Kara, I agree, they seems awfully small for being a week old. They are still smaller than a lot of newborns. Can you post a picture of them in the palm of your hand so we can see how they look? How big are the parents? Is the mom eating better now?

yes, Cinnamon is eating much better now. she weighs right at about 5lbs and the sire weighed 3.5lbs. I will try to get a picture here in a few minutes.

something was wrong with loading the images on here, so this is a link to the pictures. also, one of the pictures of one of the puppies docked tail. I did it myself and don't worry I knew what I was doing, but I would like your opinion on how it looks.
thanks
Kara

Pictures by karak333 - Photobucket

Kara, they look adorable. I think the tails looks just fine. I think they are just going to be tiny yorkies. Sometimes with larger litters the pups just don't get to be butterballs. As long as they seem satisfied then they are probably getting enough. You main concentration should still be making sure the momma is eating lots of food. The next few weeks will be a critical period in which the momma will be prone to getting eclampsia. Make sure momma eats at least 4 times a day and her last feeding should be around 10 or 11 at night and first thing every morning. She cannot afford to miss any meals. I am glad things are going smoother for you now.

Kara, you did fine....I have a small litter (3) born last Thursday, they are just beginning to plump out, but I can see they're gonna be small. I'm hoping not, because my hopes are to have a Champion in the group.....

Some just don't plump up as quickly as others. And you're having the same problem with your girl as I am with mine, not wanting to eat readily........so, that in itself has interferred with milk production. I'm hand feeding.....I've been hand feeding her since she got pregnant.

does anyone have any suggestions as to where to buy a bottle to feed them with? I bought one bottle but the nipple was way too stiff and they couldn't get anything out of it despite the numerous holes I made in the nipple. I bought another bottle at babies r us for preemie babies but the nipple is too big. and then I tried a dropper but they just keep turning their heads away from it. I am still feeding Cinnamon with a syringe but she is slowly starting to eat soft food herself. I do feed her a lot though. I have made all kinds of mixtures and every time I come upstairs to feed her, I carry like 5 bowls of different things. I feel like I am feeding her a 5 course breakfast in bed lol.

I use a syringe to feed new puppies. I attach a preemie dog nipple. I've found that I can control the flow of milk and there is less change of air being ingested.