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-   -   MARS Test Accuracy???? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/181809-mars-test-accuracy.html)

AprilLove 08-28-2009 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattiesmom;2766425[B
]Has any of the Mars testing been submitted to an outside non-biased source for confirmation?

I generally don't read these threads, but this one intrigues me. The most interesting point is that the scientists who developed this test also have a financial intrest [/B]- meaning this is a product/idea that they sell. Where is confirmation of the Mars Test by an outside non biased source that has no financial interest in the outcome?

Cindy, that is exactly the question I've always had, yet we can never get an answer when it is asked :confused:

csagan001 08-28-2009 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AprilLove (Post 2777587)
Cindy, that is exactly the question I've always had, yet we can never get an answer when it is asked :confused:

I ntried. I honestly did. I failed. I am sorry.

csagan001 08-29-2009 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRMaxine (Post 2777971)
[

NO! NO! NO! csagan01, you have not failed!!! The fact that they have not answered your questions demonstrates you have struck a NERVE!
Thank you, IRMaxine. I needed that. I truly wish they had given the data that supports their claims. This kind of reminds me of the ads that said that the Pinto was a safe car.

csagan001 08-29-2009 09:45 AM
Here are a couple of pdf downloads that directly address this topic:
1. Misleading science claims: http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/...sciencebit.pdf

2. How to tell if the "science" you're hearing about is bogus: http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/...eviewGuide.pdf

These are published by a non-profit charitable trust locaked in England. You can read about them here: Sense About Science

chattiesmom 08-29-2009 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2778218)
Thank you, IRMaxine. I needed that. I truly wish they had given the data that supports their claims. This kind of reminds me of the ads that said that the Pinto was a safe car.
Hey, wait a minute. My very first car was a baby blue Pinto! Back in the days when you could special order one from the factory. :D

After reading all the information I have it sounds like a scam to me. $$ hungry "scientists" making a claim but unable and/or unwilling to provide scientific evidence to back up their claims. I am so stuck on the fact that if they cannot identify single breeds of dogs with any degree of accuracy, then how can they identify several breeds in a specific dog?

Csagan001, I thank you for trying to help solve this Mars puzzle.

PS -- I love Santa Fe -- fantastic Green Chili Stew!!!!

csagan001 08-29-2009 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattiesmom (Post 2778242)
Hey, wait a minute. My very first car was a baby blue Pinto! Back in the days when you could special order one from the factory. :D

After reading all the information I have it sounds like a scam to me. $$ hungry "scientists" making a claim but unable and/or unwilling to provide scientific evidence to back up their claims. I am so stuck on the fact that if they cannot identify single breeds of dogs with any degree of accuracy, then how can they identify several breeds in a specific dog?

Csagan001, I thank you for trying to help solve this Mars puzzle.

PS -- I love Santa Fe -- fantastic Green Chili Stew!!!!
I feel bad that they refused to provide any real evidence. I wish I had been more ...um .... convincing. It would be really nice to have such a DNA test as MARS describes. ...I guess we will just have to wait a little longer for the genetic sciences to catch up with our dreams and desires.

drafting 09-02-2009 04:30 AM
I was not lambasting the entire teaching community. I love teachers, I taught for years myself. The statement was made in direct reference to a particular university teacher. Just exactly what are his credentials that everyone is suppose to be in awe of?

What is the purpose of this post? I have to wonder why this attack on Mars has become such an obsession for this person? Does anyone really think this is beneficial? Are Yorkie people going to refrain from using the Mars testing now? Of course not, they had no use for it to begin with.

As SillyYorkie pointed out, the Biewer is not a breed that can be tested for, therefore would be a nice fit for the intended purposes of the Wisdom panel. I think a lot of people are demanding results to an ongoing research project that they are not entitled to.

csagan001 09-02-2009 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drafting (Post 2783457)
. I think a lot of people are demanding results to an ongoing research project that they are not entitled to.
If someone is asking to be paid for their scientific "breakthroughs", then consumers have a right to have full validation of the "breakthrough."

...and the only reason that I started this thread is because of two issues: 1) I've been using the Mars Wisdom Panel statistics as part of a mid-term exam in the advanced stat analysis class that I teach and wanted other people's responses, and 2) it came to my attention--via one of my students--that a dog club was using the Wisdom Panel as proof that their dogs constitute a new breed. By seeing the lack of scientific validity of their claims, perhaps they could develop a better program.

Additionally, this thread is not about my credibility--I honestly could not care less what your opinion of me is--I only want you to learn to think for yourself. Attacking the prosecutor worked in getting OJ off for murder, but doing so shows a complete lack of intellictual skill, or perhaps, evidence.

So, Drafting, please stop trying to side track the simple intent of this thread. Your attempts to do so just make you look bad.

chattiesmom 09-02-2009 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2783652)
If someone is asking to be paid for their scientific "breakthroughs", then consumers have a right to have full validation of the "breakthrough."
I agree 100%. It is reasonable for consumers to know that the product they are spending hard earned $$ for is a valid product. The only way to know is for Mars to provide data and numbers AND/OR to have an outside nonbiased entity with no financial interest to confirm the accuracy of the tests.

chattiesmom 09-02-2009 08:25 AM
I am totally confused as to why anyone would want to use this test in the first place. If the Mars test doesn't have the ability to single out "genetic markers" for a specific breed how could the test possibly determine these same "genetic markers" in a mixed breed.

I would use the Mars if I had a mixed breed dog and wanted to determine what breeds were part of his/her genetic makeup?

drafting 09-05-2009 11:51 AM
Hi Clark, I understand that you don't agree with the Mars testing for bettering a breeding program and I understand why now. I hear that you think co-owning dogs with as many people as possible is a better way to run your breeding program and is much more profitable. Can you explain how this works please? Everyone is always looking for ways to improve. Thank you.
Judy

Nancy1999 09-05-2009 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drafting (Post 2788580)
Hi Clark, I understand that you don't agree with the Mars testing for bettering a breeding program and I understand why now. I hear that you think co-owning dogs with as many people as possible is a better way to run your breeding program and is much more profitable. Can you explain how this works please? Everyone is always looking for ways to improve. Thank you.
Judy
I don't know who Clark is, but co-owning is very common among show breeders, it allows you to mentor, and gives you some control on what the new owner is doing with your dog's offspring. When you sell a dog that can be used as a breeder, it's very important that you are extremely careful in choosing the breeder; I don't think this has anything about the "profit" potential, but it helps with the protection of the breed as well as the protection of your name as a breeder. How many breeders have been misled by someone who misrepresented themselves? I think this shows a concerned breeder not a greedy one. I have the same feelings about those breeders who sell with limited registration, meaning that their dogs must be neutered or spayed in order to be registered; to me, this says that they feel responsible for all the offspring that their dogs produce, however some people just think that the breeder's greedy.

drafting 09-05-2009 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2788612)
I don't know who Clark is, but co-owning is very common among show breeders, it allows you to mentor, and gives you some control on what the new owner is doing with your dog's offspring. When you sell a dog that can be used as a breeder, it's very important that you are extremely careful in choosing the breeder; I don't think this has anything about the "profit" potential, but it helps with the protection of the breed as well as the protection of your name as a breeder. How many breeders have been misled by someone who misrepresented themselves? I think this shows a concerned breeder not a greedy one. I have the same feelings about those breeders who sell with limited registration, meaning that their dogs must be neutered or spayed in order to be registered; to me, this says that they feel responsible for all the offspring that their dogs produce, however some people just think that the breeder's greedy.
I stand corrected. I was sent and email that shows the op is Dan Ashely and should have addressed Dan not Clark. The co-owning among show dogs is quite common and I'm aware of how many breeders do this, but that is not what we are talking about.

I think it would be nice to hear Dan explain their views on co-owning and how corporate America runs business. He is the business expert and we may be able to learn something. Have you talked to them and heard their views?

bchgirl 09-05-2009 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drafting (Post 2788639)
I stand corrected. I was sent and email that shows the op is Dan Ashely and should have addressed Dan not Clark. The co-owning among show dogs is quite common and I'm aware of how many breeders do this, but that is not what we are talking about.

I think it would be nice to hear Dan explain their views on co-owning and how corporate America runs business. He is the business expert and we may be able to learn something. Have you talked to them and heard their views?
Shouldn't this be considered the pot calling the kettle black? :confused:

I would assume they would be similar to the views of your club members or club president. Kathy T co-owned dogs and also that the club president has "given" a female to someone who hasn't even bred before...but has agreed to split 2 litters?

What value is the testing being done that allows a dog named Blessing who has suffered repeated seizures but as yet is deemed worthy of selling to a "small breeding home" because the breeder who owns her presently isn't able to afford her veterinary care?

drafting 09-05-2009 03:19 PM
I don't belong to any club. I ask one person their views on breeding, not you. I'm trying to get a professional business mans views and you act like they have committed a crime of sorts. Is there something wrong with their breeding practices?

I already know the views of your club on breeding. I find it typical that you always seem to jump in and start attacking anyone that you think belongs to the BTCA.

I have to admit that out of all the people that I have talked to in the Biewer world, the BTCA members are the most sincere and nicest group of people yet. They have certainly been able to back up everything they say and being the only club that has the backing of Mrs. Biewer, speaks volumes in itself.


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