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-   -   MARS Test Accuracy???? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/181809-mars-test-accuracy.html)

QuickSilver 08-21-2009 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattiesmom (Post 2766425)
Has any of the Mars testing been submitted to an outside non-biased source for confirmation?

I generally don't read these threads, but this one intrigues me. The most interesting point is that the scientists who developed this test also have a financial intrest - meaning this is a product/idea that they sell. Where is confirmation of the Mars Test by an outside non biased source that has no financial interest in the outcome?
:thumbup:

It would seem to me to be a very complex topic, partly for the reasons that WoogieMan stated. Also, I would imagine that every breed would have to have a different test, with different accuracy rates? I don't think there's a sign anywhere in dog DNA that says "Hi! I am a _________". So presumably the determinants would be different for different breeds, and have different certainty levels. DNA-wise, what differentiates a Golden Retriever from a Dachshund? We can check out the phenotypes, but where are the genotypes?

To add some completely unscientific experience of my own, I saw an eppy of "Flipping Out" where someone had five dogs tested. The results were clearly ridiculous - the chihuahua came back with Husky and Great Dane markers, that kind of thing.

I do think this test matters, because I know at least one person on this board was unsure of her dog's heritage, and got a MARS test done, which indicated it was not a purebred yorkie. She considered suing the breeder over it. So I do think it's important that people know whether they can trust this test.

csagan001 08-21-2009 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 2766325)
Just out of curiousity why don't you contact him and ask him? He said he would be willing to answer questions:)
Good idea. Dummy-me! Why didn't I think of that???? (don't answer that (LOL)).;)

csagan001 08-21-2009 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 2766325)
Just out of curiousity why don't you contact him and ask him? He said he would be willing to answer questions:)

Kim, There I did it. I sent an e-mail to him via the e-mail address he included in his post. Here is a copy of that e-mail:
\
Dr. Fretwell,

The entire conversation on Yorkie Talk centers around the topic of statistical verification.

Can you please provide to me the following information?
1. What are your Type I error rates?
2. What are your Type II error rates?
3. What are your 90% and your 95% confidence intervals.

If you need to break the numbers down by breed, that would be ok. Do not be afraid to be specific. I teach statistics on the university level, so I can handle the numbers!

Thank you (in advance)
csagan001 (on Yorkie Talk).

I hope he responds either here or to my e-mail address. If he does, and actually provides data, perhaps we can put this matter to rest. However, if he does not respond, or does not provide the data, then his actions indict the validity of the test.

BTW -- I am not whoever the previous, rather nasty, poster said I was, "Dan"--I am not "Dan" I am named after my father. My father's name was "Clark". The only person that my mother knew who was named "Dan" was Father Daniel O'Donahue, a priest from the nearby Catholic Church.

bugzapper 08-21-2009 01:58 PM
I am a newbie to the yorkie world- Trying to read up on some of these topics-- I find this Mars test fascinating!!! I have a question- Has any of the dogs that have been tested show they have Biewer in their bloodlines? Has a mixed breed,mutt shown they have any Biewer in them if the Biewer have been identified as a breed? Just curious

csagan001 08-21-2009 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2764197)
One dog that I owned I had tested twice. The dog was some sort of a dalmation/australian shepherd mix. The first test came back as 75% dalmation, and 25% unknown. Six months later the dog tested as 35% labrador, 15% dalmation, and 50% Husky. Tests are completely bogus.
For thse people who don't understand plain English: Read the RED BOLDED section above...The dog's NOT a Biewer--nor is it a Pomeranian--it's a big shaggy dog with a weird tail. I named him T-REX. I still think its a Dalmation/Aussie mix.

drafting 08-22-2009 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2764197)
One dog that I owned I had tested twice. The dog was some sort of a dalmation/australian shepherd mix. The first test came back as 75% dalmation, and 25% unknown. Six months later the dog tested as 35% labrador, 15% dalmation, and 50% Husky. Tests are completely bogus.
Clark, Can we see the test results you have showing your dog is 75% dalmation?

bchgirl 08-22-2009 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2766761)
For thse people who don't understand plain English: Read the RED BOLDED section above...The dog's NOT a Biewer--nor is it a Pomeranian--it's a big shaggy dog with a weird tail. I named him T-REX. I still think its a Dalmation/Aussie mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drafting (Post 2767358)
Clark, Can we see the test results you have showing your dog is 75% dalmation?
He has stated repeatedly the dog with these test results was not a biewer.

csagan001 08-22-2009 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drafting (Post 2767358)
Clark, Can we see the test results you have showing your dog is 75% dalmation?
I would be more than willing to share it, but when I cleaned my office about a month ago, those papers, along with lots more, met their fate in the shredder.

Alternatively-- I've read are other reports of this same phonomon (spelling) on the internet...so spending some time doing Google searches may be fruitful for you.

AND this thread is not about me or my credibility--it is about the data needed to support Mars Vet claim. No data--no credibility....

note for those of you who know statistics:
The requested and necessary data can be partially consructed from Dr. Fretwell's post above--and the answer as to the DNA test becomes WORSE than I estimated in my original post. But it is far better if Mars provides the supporting data--it increases the credibility of the statistical calculations.

sierrapups 08-22-2009 06:54 PM
[QUOTE=csagan001;2768169]I would be more than willing to share it, but when I cleaned my office about a month ago, those papers, along with lots more, met their fate in the shredder.



Hmmm, how convenient.

csagan001 08-22-2009 07:05 PM
[quote=sierrapups;2768333]
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2768169)
I would be more than willing to share it, but when I cleaned my office about a month ago, those papers, along with lots more, met their fate in the shredder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2768169)



Hmmm, how convenient.
It really isn't "convienant." If I had planned on having this electronic discussion, I would have saved it. I will contact Mars to see if I can get replacements--but based on this discussion, I'll bet they won't issue a second set.

Never-the-less, NOTHING prevents you from doing research on the internet. --that is, unless your belief in a cult prevents you from logical and critical thinking.

Ladymom 08-22-2009 07:28 PM
[quote=csagan001;2768352]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrapups (Post 2768333)

It really isn't "convienant." If I had planned on having this electronic discussion, I would have saved it. I will contact Mars to see if I can get replacements--but based on this discussion, I'll bet they won't issue a second set.

Never-the-less, NOTHING prevents you from doing research on the internet. --that is, unless your belief in a cult prevents you from logical and critical thinking.
A cult????? :confused: :eek:

csagan001 08-22-2009 08:01 PM
[quote=Ladymom;2768376]
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2768352)

A cult????? :confused: :eek:

My defination of a cult is:
There can be (IMO) no other explanation except a cult when one blindly follows a leader who has been caught in lies, regularly talks trash about his/her own followers, fights with nearly everyone who questions him/her, and pursues unverifiable psuedo-science to achieve his/her personal goals--and then blithly states "I believe in him/her" and then gets angry and emotional with people about business, dogs, and issues that he/she feels the leader has announced--then pursues people like a trained dog when those people choose to act differently.
Of couse, this statement is based on opinion and personal conclusions only. I am NOT calling anyone a liar, or a crook, NOR rmaking allegations about the actions of any person, group, cult, or club.

Wend 08-23-2009 02:00 PM
Obviously you disagree with MARS. So why not just not use their service and move on? Why argue it here?

csagan001 08-23-2009 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wend (Post 2769321)
Obviously you disagree with MARS. So why not just not use their service and move on? Why argue it here?

Lets wait to see if they provide any real data...

bchgirl 08-23-2009 04:22 PM
[quote=sierrapups;2768333]
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2768169)
I would be more than willing to share it, but when I cleaned my office about a month ago, those papers, along with lots more, met their fate in the shredder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csagan001 (Post 2768169)


Hmmm, how convenient.
Slowly this time....the dog in question was not a biewer. However if you like I can post the test results of biewers which i know who were tested.


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