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I don't know which dog OP had tested but none of the dogs we had tested came back with 75% dalmatian? HMMMMMM |
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Why is it that nobody talks about the statistics, and the lack (orpresence of scientific studies? This thread was not supposed to be about someone having hurt feelings--it is supposed to be about hard, verifiable knowledge. ....and, yes, it is true that I was in favor of the Mars test--until I learned about the inaccuracies. |
No one is called Dr/Ph.D. out of "respect" when they haven't the education....even if the person believes they should be called that or their followers (like in a cult or secret religion) want to call them that..... .....back on subject which is the Mars test is inaccurate.....and if some other lab is doing further work on the initial findings from the Mars Laboratory wouldn't that be more inaccurate findings based on the original inaccurate findings??? |
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It drives them crazy that they don't have evidence to back up their claims. Of course they would know that if they were as educated OR as experienced as they claim. The real world just is not a computer that you can re-mold to fit your whims. You can't just create facts because they are convienant..By being unable to present evidence, as shown by their hurtful vindictiveness, they convict themselves. As the old saying goes,"If you can't defend the client (idea), attack the prosecuter." They seem to be really short on knowledge--that's not something I usually care about--unless those people try to hoodwink others. |
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I know the test results from some owners' who've had their biewers tested and here's a list of the breeds found - Yorkie, Borzoi, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Manchester Terrier, Chihuahua, Japanese Chin, Maltese, English Cocker, Spaniel Chinese Crested, Basset Hound, Springer Spaniel, Pekingese, Shih Tzu.... Now according to Mars themselves...they are only able to pick up markers within 3 generations....there is no way to breed OUT the characteristics of the breeds listed above within 3 generations. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out the accuracy... |
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One dog that I owned I had tested twice. The dog was some sort of a dalmation/australian shepherd mix. The first test came back as 75% dalmation, and 25% unknown. Six months later the dog tested as 35% labrador, 15% dalmation, and 50% Husky. Tests are completely bogus. His statement not mine. |
re: MARS Test Accuracy???? Dear Yorkie Talk fans, This is Dr. Neale Fretwell, PhD, chief geneticist for Mars Veterinary. We appreciate your inquiry and I am happy to explain as mixed breed genetics is a very complex topic. Mars Veterinary designed Wisdom Panel MX to specifically detect the presence of two (or more) breeds in a mixed breed dog. By definition, a mixed breed is a dog crossed with two or more breeds in its recent ancestry. You ask a great question about the accuracy of the test. Back in 2007, when Mars Veterinary launched Wisdom Panel MX, the accuracy was 84%. We continuously work to improve our accuracy, so since launch, we have improved our breed count and accuracy level to 90%. While it is not yet at 100%, we are very proud to boast industry-leading accuracy. You can read more about our test enhancements since launch at http://wisdompanel.com/care_resources/view_news_item.aspx?id=28 How do we validate our accuracy? The accuracy of the test has been statistically tested and validated on with a large panel of known first generation cross-bred dogs of proven heritage, featuring a wide range of different breed combinations. Because Mars prides itself on providing the most reliable and scientifically sound products available, the extensive test development, performance testing and validation protocol, was fully reviewed by experts from an external peer review panel. This panel consists of world-renowned veterinarians, statisticians and canine geneticists. About the Study: Wisdom Panel MX was run on blood samples collected under veterinary supervision from more than 180 F1 hybrids (i.e. Goldendoodles, Puggles, etc.) bred from parents registered to a recognized Kennel Club. More than 25 breeds were represented in the sample set. Two metrics were calculated, positive predictive value (PPV) and sensitivity of breed detection (S). PPV (true positive breed calls (TP) / (TP + false positive calls) was 90%. S (TP/ (TP + false negative calls), was 97%. This work has been presented externally on two separate occasions. First, at the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (ACVIM) meeting in Seattle, Washington (July 2007) and more recently at the World Small Animal Veterinary conference in Sao Paulo, Brazil (July 2009). The abstract for this presentation was published in the proceedings of the meeting. Every Dog breed (of which over 400 are recognized worldwide) contains many individuals, each of which are comprised of a very complex mixture of many different genetic variants, and as such, what constitutes or defines a member of a breed is established by the rules determined by the various kennel clubs and breed registries (described for each in the established breed standards), not by Mars Veterinary. These rules generally deal with common physical traits between members of a breed and a register of stated pedigrees from other breed members than any scientific data. The observed diversity of breeds and genetic variation within breeds, together with the fact that most recently created breeds are crosses of other existing breeds, means that occasional inaccuracies are inevitable in any test designed to establish recent ancestry from a specific breed. We are aware that on occasion, dog owners have attempted to use the test to prove the "purity" of a dog from a given breed. This is not a purpose for which the test was designed and we do not advocate its use for this purpose. We expect testing of purebred dogs with Wisdom Panel MX to cause inaccuracies in the results of the analysis because our statistical algorithm was designed for the purpose of finding multiple breeds in a dog’s ancestry. Our Work with Purebreds: Additionally, Mars Veterinary geneticists’ have extensive experience with purebred canines in addition to mixed-breed dogs. They have participated in a number of research projects using the proprietary genetic markers used by Wisdom Panel MX. Some of these studies include; the genetic variation within breeds, and a study to help identify potential ancestral breed influences of newly developed breeds and breed variants. These projects have primarily used more appropriate methods to study the variation between purebred dogs, rather than the algorithm that is used for Wisdom Panel MX. Since launching, Mars Veterinary has proudly worked with many enthusiastic veterinary practices, mixed-breed dog owners and industry experts who are excited about the preventative health and wellness benefits available through learning a dog’s breed history with the Wisdom Panel MX. For any additional questions, myself or our Veterinary Geneticist Dr. Angela Hughes, DVM, would be happy to explain in more detail. Please contact us via our customer care department at customercare@marsveterinary.com. Warm regards, Dr. Neale Fretwell, PhD www.wisdompanel.com |
Thank you Dr. Fretwell. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::D |
"We are aware that on occasion, dog owners have attempted to use the test to prove the "purity" of a dog from a given breed. This is not a purpose for which the test was designed and we do not advocate its use for this purpose. We expect testing of purebred dogs with Wisdom Panel MX to cause inaccuracies in the results of the analysis because our statistical algorithm was designed for the purpose of finding multiple breeds in a dog’s ancestry." There in her, Dr.Fretwell, own words, not to be used to prove lineage of new breed. (and btw Marketing 101 and Statistics 101 are not the same classes.) |
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Without data, there can be NO validation NOR any acceptance of the tests. It doesn't matter who someone is, what they beleive, nor who they work for. All that matters is the data. Why is everyone afraid to provide the hard data. If they are honest, then what are they hiding? |
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During the K9 College Cruise, I had the pleasure of taking a course with Dr. Danika L. Bannasch, DVM, Ph.D. (Click on her name for more). She is a geneticist at University of California Davis. Her work centers on dogs and horses. I asked her about the accuracy of the MARS test. She stated, “It is completely bogus.” I was unable to get her to define, “bogus” in more statistically relevant terms, but she was insistent that the tests did not provide a level of accuracy. It seems to me that you are placing more validity in someone that has never conducted any of this testing or where are her statistics? What facts is she basing her statements on? Has she read the research papers and done her own analyzes? Dan, you should know that you are skating on thin ice. I would think twice before I would call a very reputable institute's research bogus. You have now taken it upon yourself to publicly defame Mars and Dr. Neale Fretwell. I am sure that his expertise in the field of genetics far surpasses any knowledge you might presume to hold. |
Has any of the Mars testing been submitted to an outside non-biased source for confirmation? I generally don't read these threads, but this one intrigues me. The most interesting point is that the scientists who developed this test also have a financial intrest - meaning this is a product/idea that they sell. Where is confirmation of the Mars Test by an outside non biased source that has no financial interest in the outcome? |
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