Wy many breeders use pics from my Champions ??
 

My name is Javier Coronel , I´m de Owner of California Wild´s Kennel in Argentina , I´m little bit tired to see how many breeders use the pictures from my dogs , in their websites , in their adds , and is funny because many of them even didn´t buy any dog from me . Also I was sad because I saw what Peggy Nitro wrote about me , I sold to her a very nice male from Ch. California Wild´s Lion D´Or , later she made a complain because her Vet haved to took off many baby tooth , but later when the dog grow , she haved to admit a big mistake , her Vet took off many adult tooth also, after that she sent to me emails because she want to but one or two females from my kennel , I wasen´t very happy with that because what happens before , and also because she told me which she mix breed ( s**th-zu X Yorkies ) she use very large ugly Yorkies females and mix with s**th-zu males , what is that ?? a reputable breeder never do something like that , anyway she insist and sent to me the payment for " One " female and told me which later she will send the payment for the second one , the two females puppys which she choose were small , also one of them haved somes hipoglucemia episode and unfortunally she die , the other one was so extra small size , and I took the desition to sale her to a local buyer just as a pet , and because I´m very responsable persons I sent to Peggy my own puppy that one which I was choose for to keep for my self , I explain that to her and she was agree and happy with the new girl , and now she wrote again bad things about me , I can´t believe and I so sad because I sent to her the most beautifull girl . Now she start to use pics from Ch. Lion D´Or which I sold to another breeder in U.S , of course she use my pics because the dog which I sold to her is in short coat or maybe in bad condition , I´m very happy she don´t want to buy any other dog from me , because for sure I never will sale another puppy to a realy bad breeder like that which mix breed , use large dogs for to have large litters totally out of the Yorkie Standar . Javier Coronel from California wild´s Kennel .

I am sorry you are going thru all this. I have looked at your dogs forever and they are very beautiful. I have always wanted one to show but never could afford one. Don't let people get to you. I am a breeder also and know it is hard to please everyone. If I were you, I would ask her to take the pictures down from her website since you did not give her permission. I'm sure you have already done this but i would threaten her with a lawsuit if she did not remove them. Good luck.

I am sorry you are going through all this but I don't understand why you would have dealt with someone like this to begin with. If you have beautiful show dogs why would you sell to someone who you consider a inreputable breeder? And then to send them some extra small females seems irresponsible to me. I don't know who this Peggy Nitro is but your post really makes both of you look bad. If she is using your pictures in a unlawful way then you can try to sue her. Just be careful who you sell to. You don't have to sell to anyone you think is unreputable, even if they insist.

Hi , Yes you totally right , is just hard when you are out of the Country and you know the people just through the emails , she sound like a very friendly and nice persons the first time , and look like she try to be a better breeder and make better quality , and also she told me which she doesn´t care about the small size of the female because she has very large breed females and she want a small one for to take with her to everywhere , inmediatly I sent the female to her she ask me if she can breed her , so of course her intention was that one from the very first time , but I lerned my lessons now , I just so sorry for my dogs because they are in thew wrong hands . Javier .

People can sound very nice etc in emails. This situation you are in has happened to breeders who are reputable, putting their lines and those kennel names behind their lines in the wrong hands.
One thing that always arouses suspicion for the motives of someone looking to buy a dog for show or breeding, is why are they enquiring so far from home? It may well be they are looking for new lines etc, but what you might do is find other breeders who happen to live in the area where the enquirer lives. Ask them if they know this person and what they know about them.
In too many cases, no one in their area will sell to them because they know it is not a good situation.
Also, as you are in Argentina or for those living in other countries, you don't have a contract with the buyer and if you do very difficult if not impossible to enforce. Europe does not have contracts, they are considered illegal and cannot be enforced. Often buyers of the type you described don't want a contract as they want to do as they please and often not in the best interest of the breed or the dogs.

if you have a signed contract is there a clause in it that allows you to repossess the puppy if it is not taken care of or obtained thru fraudulent pretense? if so, then get the dog back. I have done it and do not feel one bit bad about it.

Kennel Dog Pics
 

I had thought that I wrote about my experience with Mr. Colonel in the most professional manner possible but maybe not. I can certainly understand his frustration with people using his pictures and they did not even purchase one of his dogs. But, this is not the case in my case. I guess I don't appreciate Mr Colonal's unprofessional mannerisms by calling my dogs ugly, claiming my dogs are in bad health, etc. The dog with the teeth issues was sent to me in that condition (mouth full of double rows of teeth). He was about 9 months old at the time I recieved him. And "I" am being accused of treating my pets poorly. Okay.....I accept the critisim. I have big shoulders. I can take the beating. My contract with Javier didn't say anything with reference to using any dogs photos. I'm "BAD" (I guess).:thumbdown

Sold me a different dog,
 

Javier, I am sorry if there are communication problems (Spanish/ English) causing all these misunderstandings.

I just can't bite my lip and let it go with your accusations that I breed large size dogs etc. I have all the emails between us to back my story and I easily prove #1) that I was to buy 2 dogs from you but you sold one without even any thought as to what I thought about you selling one of the dogs you sold to me. And #2) I purchased a 5# female from you and you SENT ME some strange female that I had never even hear of before.

I paid $2600 USD for CH Sired a female dog from you. Her name was Kormic Light but who you sent me was a different female whom I learn much later that her name is Kiss of Live (on her paperwork). She is non-CH sired, not the dog I bought, you never once mentioned anything had happened to Kormic Light until after you sent Kiss, and Kiss is barely 2 pounds at 18 weeks old.

OF COURSE I'm going to ask you your opinion on breeding her. And OF COURSE you told me "Go Ahead And Try It", "See What Happens". You also told me she was to be kept for breeding for you. Is it your policy to use 2 pound females in your breeding program? OF COURSE, I prefer bigger females (4.5 pound to 8 pound). BUT NOT, 2 pound females!

Wouldn't it make much better business sense that when you had the problem with Kormic that you write to me and offer me the choice to either get my money back, wait for another litter/pup, or take another dog? Is it your policty to just inadvertantly just ship a buyer another replacement dog without their knowledge??

I would be more than happy to return this tiny female that you wanted to keep for your breeding program there. She's NOT the dog I purchased from you so all expenses to return her is your problem.

How in the world can you call hi unprofessional when you are breeding mixed breeds? From what I see on puppyfind, i don't see how you can say anything about this man. And if you took the pictures from his website it is copyrighted material. How can you market a 15 day old pup as a "show potential"?

http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=...20dcd6e95e314f

I hope you both can resolve this amicably!

Since she is using your pictures on PuppyFind to advertise her 15 day old show potentials. ;) you can report her to PuppyFind and her account will be removed. That doesn't cost anything.

Mixed Breeds......
 

The Yorkshire Terrier traces to the Waterside Terrier, a small longish-coated dog, bluish-gray in color, weighing between 6 and 20 pounds (most commonly 10 pounds). The Waterside Terrier was a breed formed by the crossing of the old rough-coated Black-and-Tan English Terrier (common in the Manchester area) and the Paisley and Clydesdale Terriers. It was brought to Yorkshire by weavers who migrated from Scotland to England in the mid-19th century.

The Yorkshire Terrier made its first appearance at a bench show in England in 1861 as a "broken-haired Scotch Terrier". It became known as a Yorkshire Terrier in 1870 when, after the Westmoreland show, Angus Sutherland reported in The Field magazine that "they ought no longer be called Scotch Terriers, but Yorkshire Terriers for having been so improved there."

I'm not trying to be a smart allic or anything by pasting this information from the AKC (oops I'm stealing again) but I thought maybe it be to your benefit to realize that many breeds were a combination between other breeds, etc. The Yorkshire Terrior is a combo too!

So, your not liking that I'm mixing two breeds is really a sad and close minded view. Have you seen that AKC is just now registering mixed breeds to the AKC dog family? I prefer not to register mine with them as AKC still has an attitude about some mixed breeds and wants them spay/neutered before they'll register them. But what's that say about mixing breeds??

Anyway, take care. I have dogs to tend to.:p

Shipped wrong dog!
 

I'm way ahead of that. I've reported him to PuppyFind that he sold me one dog (actually two) but then shipped me a completely different dog. I have tried to resolve this (FYI) by offering him his 2 lb breeder female back that he just shipped me (the wrong dog). Let's see if he really wanted her all that bad like he claims.

The AKC isnt registering mixed breeds they are just recognizing them now so they can compete in agility thats all

I believe it's safe to say that most here are fully aware that the Yorkshire Terrier came to be by the selective combination of various breeds. :rolleyes: However, they were bred and established for a purpose and overtime were recognized as an established breed.

So, what is your purpose in mixing breeds? Disagreeing with the practice is not "close minded" as you put it--it's having the knowledge to recognize that it's not being done for any purpose other than to meet the demand of those wanting to follow the current fad of having a "designer dog" with a cutesy name. IMO, it's an "easy way out" for people who want to breed. There is no standard that has to be met and the benefit of it being a mutt makes it easy to skirt around the health issues that plague individual breeds.

The AKC is allowing mixed breeds to be registered so that they can compete in non-conformation events, nothing more. They are not registering them as separate, recognized breeds that can be bred and are requiring that they be spay/neutred before they are eligible....so yes, indeed, what DOES that say about their stance on it? ;)

You're offering him a 2 lb. breeder when you say it is wrong to breed such small ones? Good grief!!!

What does where yorkies come from have to do with you making "shorkies"? I looked on PuppyFind and you HAVE stolen his pictures and are using his name and line to promote your puppies obviously without his permission. How many dogs do you have listed on puppyFind right now. i stopped looking after one page. You have some nerve lady coming on here and bad mouthing him is all I have to say about it. You wrote some nasty things about him and he has every right to come on here and defend himself. I feel his only mistake was in not checking you out closer. Most breeders, had they known your business would never in a million years have sold you a puppy. i feel so bad for those babies.

Both of these people are wrong IMHO. A reputable breeder would never sell a 2 lb dog without it being fixed especially if it was going out of the country. How is he protecting his lines if this is what he is doing. If his country doesn't allow spay/neuter then don't sell it outside of the country as you can't check on the new owner.

This buyer is breeding mixed dogs and trying to justify it.

Again, more people making $$$ of the back of dogs and not protecting the animals in their keeping.

Sad.:(

I am a very open minded person and I see wrong on both sides. A breeder should never ship the wrong dog with out talking to the person, if she paid for a Ch.sired puppy that is what she should have got. She paid to much for a puppy that the mom and dad was not even Champions. Does no one see wrong in that. If the puppy she bought got sick he should have contacted her and see what she wanted to do, not just seen her another puppy. That would make me very mad.

For as the seller, if she had bought a puppy before from you and give you trouble, why sell to her again unless it was for $$$$ only.

For as the pictures, if you are not happy with this breeder take the photos off. You don't have a Champion sired dog, stop act as if you do.

For as AKC reg mixed breeds, I like AKC, my dogs are AKC reg. but it comes down to money with them too. They make money than the biggest puppy mill breeder or show breeders. They are the ones that is in it for $$$$ when it come to reg. mix breeds.

About the breeding a 2lbs female, I would never. But what you said about you breed 4.5-8 lbs (8lbs is out of the standard and should not be breed)

so both of you are in the wrong!!!

AKC Registration of Mixed Breeds...
 

Boy, I hate to be wrong and I just went back and read what it says about the "New Mixed Breed Program" and I have to stick by what I said. It says the program begins October 1st 2009 and that mixed breed owners can list their dogs with AKC's New Mixed Breed Program. It goes on to say that the cost is $35, dogs must be spay/neutered, and dogs in the program will be given an ID number, etc. It says that in Phase 1 that dogs registering will recieve a Certificate (A), (B) A Competition Card with their ID number that will "allow" them to compete now in Agaility and etc. But I don't necessarily take that to mean that they HAVE TO COMPETE. Maybe I'm wrong?? (C) is that you get access to the AKC Community of people that love and support anything dog. (D) And affiliation with groups that fight anti dog ownership legislation and so forth. I'm only 50% sure I'm reading it right but I just don't have the time (nor care) to ask AKC staff for sure what their new program is about for sure. I'd feel a little stupid with my question too, lol. You'd think the answers would be black and white clear! LOL 50% chance you're right too! Peggy

I still think they are only reg. mixed breed for the $35.00 they will make a lot of money doing this. It is a money thing!!!!! Before you know it AKC will be as bad as some of the other Reg.

Your Name is Peggy Rogers , you are from Iowa , you mix s**th-Zu and Yorkies , they are extremally large size , if I call them ugly is just because you say that first , I have your email where you ask me for nices pics from my dogs for to use in your adds , because your dogs are " to ugly " this is what yoo say about your own dogs , of course my answer was negetive , you can´t use other dog´s pics , you have to use your own dogs pics even if they are " Ugly " like you say . I have also the mails from you where you say sorry because your Vet made a terrible mistaque and took off many adult tooth from Tiziano ( the first dog which I sold to you ) , later also you asked for to use pics from Ch. Lion Dór and I told you which I sold that dog to another American Breeder , and if you want to use his pics you haved to ask to the new owner , you didn´t and you just put his pics in your adds even when that dog is not yours puppy´s sire . The female puppy which i sent to you is more than cute , she has the most wonderfull silky coat , excelent colour and baby face , of course she will look so different than your 8 pounds yorkies , she will be just normal size around 4 pounds adult size , and she has extraordinary Champion pedigree like all my dogs has , because I work so hard for that , so you not have authorization to profit on my own hard work during all those 20 year as a Breeder . I have all your emails also as a proof , i just don´t know how I can show here , but please anybody which can email me I can resend those emails so you can see how Peggy Rogers act like a " Breeder " , also you lied to me because you told me in one email like you want a small female for your nephew so he can start to show her , and also you want a small female so you can bring her everywhere just because your are so big , but inmediatly after you receibed the female you asked me if she can breed , so you are a good example of the realy bad breeders around the world , which just want to make money with large litters and doesn´t care about the quality , I sent all your email to puppyfind already and also to the new owners of Ch. lion Dór . Javier Coronel .

I see some wrong on each side too. I think it is very difficult to sell internationally unless affiliated with a dog club of some kind that could have members on both sides to vouch for the seller and buyer.

I think they are saying different things about her accepting a different puppy as one of the two she chose died and the other was too tiny to ship out for possible breeding. He said: "and because I´m very responsable persons I sent to Peggy my own puppy that one which I was choose for to keep for my self , I explain that to her and she was agree and happy with the new girl , "

The 2 pound puppy is only 18 weeks old. She might make it up to 5 pounds, although it will probably be more like 3 pounds, so you are right, no one should have sold or bought her as a breeding prospect. If no one wants her, send her to me! :)

I think if the buyer was unhappy with her first purchase, she would not hjave gone through all of the trouble to buy another puppy from an out-of-country seller. I think if the seller was that unhappy with the buyer on the first purchase, he should not have thought she was improving enough to sell her another. So, they must not have been that unhappy with each other on the male purchase. It was with this little female, bad feelings developed. Why? Is it because she is a different female than originally picked? Not as pretty as the first ones? Too little to breed? Why now is the seller mad? Did he not know that she was mixing breeds? Did he not know that she was wanting to breed this female?

Too many questions for me to even think about taking sides. I do think the buyer should get his pictures off her ads immediately. You do not steal pictures and use them without permission. If he was local to the her, it would be easy to sue her and take a percentage of every sale she makes with his pictures!

I think the seller should not sell anymore dogs until he can have a good reference from the people's vet and maybe for sales to the U.S. like this, require a YTCA member to vouch for them.

Unfortunately this sale is done, and there is probably little to be done. The buyer is only going to return the puppy if he pays for everything and that is probably going to be a huge expense for the seller. This is unfortunate because the seller's dogs look gorgeous! To have one even that has to be spayed for being too small to breed would be an honor.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing people. I'm offering him his dog back that he told me that was so beautiful and that he planned to keep for himself to breed in the first place. I have no say over what he does with his 2lb females. I was promised a 5 lb female from his CH Sire Dog and what I got from him was a 2 lb female, not CH and not the dog I wanted. He told me that my dog (Kormic Light) had died about 2-3 weeks before he wrote me to get my shipping info but he didn't tell me any of this until AFTER the dog he shipped had already arrived at my home here in USA. When this other 2 lb female arrived I knew just by looking at her that she wasn't at all the dog that I sent money for. And once I got her home from Chicago I looked at the paperwork he sent to me. It was then and only then that I realized that this wasn't at all the dog that I bought. There was never any emails to the fact that Kormic Light had died. NOTHING! Just a strange dog arriving for me to pick-up that was supposed to be a completely different dog. I can't breed a 2lb 4 oz female. But Javier had told me that he was keeping that one for himself. Now what do you think, anyone think she'd never be bred beings he's a breeder? Just something to ponder. Javier can do what he wishes, I'm not hsi boss but I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing it. Just my opinion is all. Peggy

This makes it sound a lot different now..... if the small dog was sold without breeding in mind, only because she wanted a small one to carry around, was the registration limited?

Xavier -- it is very unfortunate that you cannot trust people to be as they say online. Maybe if you have a US customer in the future, you can at least come on YT and ask if anyone knows of the breeder. Finding a reference will help towards being able to believe in them. I am sorry you are going through this now. It must be double frustrating that she is still using your pictures to advertise her dogs!!! I cannot believe she still has them on there even now!

Sorry to all of you which you think the female which i sold to Peggy Rogers will stay in 2 lbs , but you wrong , this puppy according to the dam and sire sizes will be around 4 pounds full grow , that for me is normal Yorkie size , not 2 pounds like she say ,also i have her email when she receibed the puppy she say she is small and very fat , but of course she made many mistaques already so everything will be wrong with my puppy .

You're so full of yourself. And you don't tell the truth either. Go ahead, look at puppyFind and just see how many dogs I have. Does 6 ring any bells up there? Now...lets see, there's either 12 or 15 dogs to a page. That'd definately mean I'd have pages upon pages of dogs. You and Javier related? My Gosh! Go away!

I do have 4 males with Brazil and Argenina lines, your correct. Give me a break. Don't come on here and start stirring up things that you don't have one IOTA what you're talking about.

Since the dog is only 18 weeks old, I think it is fair to say you are exaggerating since the dog will no longer be 2 lb 4 oz when it is 18-24 months old and breeding age. It may still be underweight for breeding but it probably WILL NOT still be a 2 pounder.

How long have you had her?

Hi Debra , I just can let you know which the female which i sent to this woman Peggy Rogers will be more beautifull than those dogs in my pics , because she will have the same coat , and her face is a dream , She is a daugther of Nuria of Blue Point and my New Show Prospect California Wild´s Emperador I ( you can see those dogs in my website ), but unfortunally this female is not in the right hands so for sure she never will have the same coat , and she will look just like a little ugly dog in Peggy´s hands .

I just typed about the same thing. I think I am typing while you are posting. Fair to say the dog will grow! Only being 18 weeks old, she should grow quite a bit yet. She may very well make it to 4 pounds.

I will bet she has the potential to be beautiful. Maybe you two should agree to sell her to me instead of paying for all of that shipping!