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This thread has become a bash against each other, we will never get the whole picture its a he said she said situation. Hope you both can figure out a way to work this whole mess out. |
Pretty LEVEL HEADED analysis of the situation (IMO) Quote:
ANSWERS: (my side again) to answer you is that "yes" he knew I wanted to breed and probably why I had full registration papers with both dogs that he did send. He knew I was mixing and this is why we spoke about a 5# (est.) female. In fact, I still have a "mix". Her name is Maddy and she's a Shorkie. She's 15 weeks and just 1.5 lbs. I don't care for HUGE lap type dogs that would be 10+ pounds. Now would I ever be insane enough to put a 10 lb male with a 3 lb female. Not in my character. The Seller is mad because the lady (Susan) that paid like $6000-$7000 for a dog is mad because I put up photos of the Sire to the dog I own. She complains to him and now he is complaining to me (because of her). Anyway, I have written permission and lots of email proof about many of his complaints to PuppyFind about me. There is a request from Javier about the "Review" I wrote and Mr. Coronol has asked that my review be deleted from his file. This all will take several weeks to resolve (according to PuppyFind Staff) but I think I have my bases pretty well covered. We'll see though. Peggy |
Thanks, I'm in agreement with what you say. I do have the emails to back up my side of the story and pics of the dog that he sent me that I "thought" I had bought. It's just way to exhausting and involved to go thru everything to prove my story on here. I don't show and breed dogs to make a living on. So it's just not worth the battle to "prove" anything. Maybe I'm just old and lazy too. LOL Yeah.....probably "That's the Ticket! Peggy |
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She's now AKC. So you're telling me 4lbs then is okay to breed her???? My male is 4 lbs. I couldn't imagine impregnanting something that small. Is it safe? |
Your opinion of me is that my dogs has ugly coats? Quote:
If you felt that I was such an aweful person. Why then did you sell me more dogs? 2600 reasons maybe? Peggy :rolleyes: |
Sounds like FlDebra found and answer in all this. JMO and to help- Peggy: You really should never post photos of dogs that do not belong to you or are not in your own possession. It is just kinda of common curtesy not to, since it can give buyers the wrong impression. It is just not the right thing to do. Also - since you might not know this: you should not advertise a 15 Day old pup as a show prospect, since it takes a minium of 5-6 months to tell if a pup has the potential. And - Advertising a mixed breed as a show prospect is not correct either, since you can't show in confirmation a mixed breed with AKC and your registry of ACHC does not hold shows. It just shows there is a lot you do not know...and If the sire (dad) or mom (dam) of the pups for sale are not champions - it is also not correct to advertise them as champion sired. It is a learning process - we learn more as we go along. JMO - I just do not believe in breeding mixed breeds, since they really are a mix. And then charging 1,200.00 for one. Yikes! AKC will be allowing (as far as I know) mixed breeds be to be registered under a "Special" registry so people can enjoy showing their mixed spayed/neutered dog in Agility, Rally, and Obediance, but they will not be able to compete in Confirmation. Confirmation is competing for their championship and to show for breed worthy. And the 2 pound 14 week old pup you are talking about might make weight when fully grown. I had one this small then and is now 5.5 pounds at 2 years old. I hope this clears things up and makes some things better. |
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You caught me! Quote:
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i am not full of myself and no, i don't even know this man. As far as stirring things up, the other thread has been dead for a long time until YOU re opened it. As far as who I am, I am a breeder that "seems" to be highly respected on YT. No ONE will use my pictures on a website to promote their dogs unless I give permission. that is the main thing I see you have done wrong. Sometimes people ask me if they can use my parents on their website when they have one of my puppies. Sometimes I give permission and sometimes I don't. But at least they ask permission. You Ms. peggy will be found out for just what you are. people on YT don't think too highly of unethical breeders and you might be surprised to know that you fit in most of their definitions of that.. keep this going and you will see that I might be the only one speaking up right now but rest assured others will. i agree with what some of the other posters said. there was wrong on both sides. |
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Javier2905...You are the one who sold your breeding stock to Peggynitro and now you complain she breeds oversized, mixed breeds. Did you get references and throughly check the buyer out??...you are trying to shut the door after the horses left the barn IMO... |
Yes, something to learn on both sides! Forgot to add in last post: Weight - can never guarantee it. One never knows what they will weigh until they are fully grown. |
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I keep a pup back that was on tracking to be about 6 lbs grown. At a year old she weighs 2 lb-13 ozs...:rolleyes: |
I just heard back from puppyFind and they said they have sent peggy an email asking her to remove any pictures of dogs that do not belong to her. we will see if she complies. if she doesn't her PuppyFind account will be suspended. the picture thing is really what bothered me about the whole thing. |
this is just a ridiculous mess! i think this would be best kept in their personal emails he knew what he was doing and she knew what she was doing. he knew she wanted a breeder if she breeds...and if he didnt like her program he could have said no, but she paid the money and he was alright with it then. |
Peggy dear...you sound very immature Quote:
2. YOU don't come on here & start stirring up things. I read the other old thread that you resurrected...I don't understand WHY you would use beautiful CH line Yorkies to make 'Shorkies'.:questione |
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On the rest, he said she wanted a small yorkie to carry around, she says she wanted a breeder. Well, the dog should have had limited registration if it was not to be bred. He said she knew about the change in dog before and was fine with it, she says she did not know until she received the dog and was not fine with it. But she has had this dog for a MONTH! No one still knows just how big the dog will be, she may be large enough to breed. What a shame if all that beautiful genetics goes to waste in a mixed breed though! I would love to see pics of her! |
No , in Argentina we donīt have limited registration , every dog must be sold in full registration or without papers ( but this also itīs prohibit from FCA to a profetionals breeder like me , we have to sale all our dogs in full registration ) |
This is a crazy mess!!!! I have one thing to add about the size and her saying she paid for a dog to breed and now it is not going to be big enough. You can never tell a true size a puppy will be + know one has said that you could buy and puppy and it end up not ever being able to have puppies. I paid over $2000 for a stud and did not know until I had a litter of puppies if all his man parts was working. If they did not I could not blame the breeder, that is something a breeder can not see happening. For as the pictures that is why I would never buy a puppy off the net with out looking into the person BIG TIME. So call breeders use other people's photos, lie about size & Pedigrees. I will stay with breeders that lives close enough to drive to. She should be luck to get a show breeder to sell breed rights to her, but I think if she bought a CH-sired puppy that is what she should have got. 2 wrongs never make a right. |
Puppy Size Quote:
I have no arguements with you or anyone else about her weight it's just that a couple of posts back, some persons were thinking she might make 4 lbs and that maybe she'd still be breedable or what ever. But she won't. My point to nay sayers (lol) again is this. I purchased two females but one was sold off to someone else. The smaller non-breedable dog was sold and I was never notified. I found it out thru casual conversation weeks later that she was sold to someone else. I wrote and asked how this was allowed to happen and I told how sick I was about this. It was expalined away as the seller decided that she was to small for me, she was sick all the time, I was a breeder and she was NOT the dog for me, etc. So, I blew that off and remained on course for the one dog left. The 5lb (+/-) that I was told would be perfect for the male I have. She was CH sired from CA Wild Make Trouble. She had Turaynne lines on dad's side, mom's side only had a couple CH's in 5 Generations. Dad's had around 8 in 5 Generations. Stellar Pedigree? A: no! But cute puppies from this mix (IMO) Where I'm going with this is that I "thought" I had purchased a CH sired female. Ended up that what was shipped to me wasn't CH sired at all. I was pleasantly surprised (being sarcastic there) with a itty bitty puppy that is from Emperador 1 and Emperador 1 is NOT a CH dog. Emperador's daddy is a CH (Make Trouble). And Make Troubles daddy is a CH (Turyanne Mischief Maker) and his daddys is a CH (Turyanne Bootin Tootin Jefree (USA AKC REGISTERED). But that's the deal. |
Sorry guys , but Peggy Rogers ask me for a very small female so she can take her everywhere , and also she sent to me a website with some ugly stuff for to bring the small dogs ,look like a little bag so scary for the dogs , and she ask me what I think about that , of course I told you which I didnīt liked , but her desition was for a very small female because her dogs are so ugly and big , so she canīt bring with her anywhere , I have that email as a proof , so if any of you want to email me I can resend and you will know the true , Iīm sorry I haved to show here all this complain , but this woman wrote wrongs things about me and I canīt leave her do that , just because she change her mind and she want a big female now , and also she used my dogīs pics without permition just for to sale her ugly dogs in puppyfind . Javier . |
You ask me for a very small female for to bring with you everywhere , you just ask me if you can breed her when you receibed her , even you wrong because this wonderfull female will be around 4 or more pounds as adult weight , but unfortunally I know now you will kill her because you just want to make money and breed large litters for to sale more puppys , if I call uglņy to your big dogs is just because you call your own dogs in this way in all the emails which you sent to me , you told me which your smaller Yorkie female is around 7 pounds , I canīt imagine how big can be the others , and also you told me which you breed those mix dogs just for to sale them very fast in cheap price just $ 300 each one , Iīm realy sad you can have dogs from my kennel , I worked many years for to have this quality , and now they are in your very bad hands , I think we have to bring this complain to the AKC , maybe they can do an inspection to your kennel and see the type of breeder which you are , and what you doing with those mixed dogs , javier . |
Yes I canīt understhand that also , I have an email from Peggy Rogers where she told me in natural way which one of the last litters are from two differents sires , yes is a terrible mess , but is true she breed the same large yorkie female with a s**th-zu male and with the small yorkie which I sold to her , so somes of the puppys were Shorkies and others Yorkies , but how she sale those puppys ?? also she give AKC papers to all litter like they are pure Yorkshire terrier ? she made a terrible mess with her dogs , but the problems is she donīt see anything wrong in that , I think she donīt have idea about the ethical rules for AKC registered breeders , I send an email to the AKC , I will send all this complain to them , and I hope they can send an inspection to her kennel . |
First Peggy you never sent the deposit for a second female , you just send a payment for one , so because the very small female one was not just small she was T/cup , I haved to sale to a local buyer because she never can make a long flight from Argentina to U.S , the second female was small also , and she never can be 5 lbs , and unfortunally she haved hipoglucemia episode and I found her die in her kennel , this is the only reason wy I sent to you my own puppy , but you realy make me crazy with your mails , because in some of them you asked for a very small female just for to take her everywhere and use that as a promotion for to sale others puppys , but during our emails I can see you are a terrible mess , you breed two differents males (also differents breeds ) with the same Large size Yorkie female , and in the litter somes of the puppys were Shorkies and some others Yorkies ,¿¿ somebody can explain me what is that ?? and later you use my Champion´s pics for to sale those dogs and even you not sure if they are pure breed and who is the real sire ( well the big ones can from the s**th-zu and the small ones from the Yorkie ) this is terrible , you are disaster as a breeder , and I thought which you were a good persons and my dogs will be in good hands , I´m so wrong . Javier . |
Unbiased Third Party I do not know either the seller or buyer in this thread but did offer to look at forwarded emails and relate what I read. Here is the exchange about the pictures: 4/3 Peggy wrote: "...I am wondering if you would mind if I used some of your professional photos of your Yorkies? I plan to use Tiziano and get some photos of him but I want to use more Yorkies than just one. Mine are to ugly. Can I use some of yours? " she goes on to tell him exactly what sort of shots she wants and how many of each! 4/3 Javier wrote: "about the pics , no sorry this is not right , everybody must Show their own real dogs , you can show pics from Tiziano and you can wait for those ladys growing if your other adult arenīt nices , if you care very well their coat they will look like my adult dogs ," 4/3 Peggy writes: Javier, it is okay if you feel it is wrong to use your photos of your dogs. At least I asked. I can take new pictures of Tiziano, that is not a problem. What I was thinking was if you did allow me to use some of your photos was to put your kennel name there for my potential customers to see. But it is okay. I am not mad and I understand how you feel. Would it be wrong to only use Tiziano's Dad with Tiziano in a photo? 4/3 Javier writes: "Ch. Lion DīOr is not my dog anymore , if you want to use his pics you have to ask to the new owners they are in U.S also I can give you their email address ." As to the question of size. There are very detailed emails from March 3/20 Javier says "I think if you realy want to bring her to everywhere , Cabriolet will be the best Choice , she will be realy small , both they have excelente silky coat , realy Cabriolet is almost perfect just too small to breed/show , she never can do that ," then he tells her about another dog that is a little larger. 3/20 Peggy says: I am still thinking that I like the small puppy (female) better .... (Then she goes on to discuss some carriers, the puppy purses and another one: "This is "brand new" stuff for here in the USA and very popular. I don't know if I like this yet or not and this is not what I was thinking when I told you that I want a small dog to take everyplace with me. BUT what a way to bring attention to your dogs so people will ask questions and maybe want a business card to contact me to buy a dog later on! Look as this....... Puppy Purses My idea for a small Yorkie( to take with me everyplace) was something for my purse and for the dog to be hidden yet comfortable. Glam Line! Collection This is what I have in mind. " Looks like Javier has told us the truth on several counts. He did tell her the female was too small to breed and show and he recommended another one. She said she still wanted the small one. When he had to substitute, he was still going on the premise that she wanted a small one, to carry around with her to capture attention, and not to breed. When she did get the little female, she wrote to him again. She did not say anything negative about it being a different Yorkie, or being small. She did say she weighed her at 2.5 pounds at 18 weeks and asked what his adult prediction for her weight would be. She also reported she had a small cough when she picked her up. That was it. So, she did not express any displeasure in the pup or surprise that it was a different one from the original one. I think Javier has gone above and beyond, by providing the emails to be read and information transferred here. He has provided proof that he has told us the truth. |
Sounds like the truth just came out. Javier sorry your are going through this mess and your dogs are beautiful. |
I just want to say thanks to Debra for her help , I still don´t understhand what Peggy Rogers want to do with all those bad reporters about me , but if she insist I think the AKC can do something about all this complain , thanks a lot to all of you , javier Coronel . |
I'm so sorry to see all this--- I have to speak up on Javier's behalf. My impression in dealing with him and others who know him is that he's a very kind hearted man and maybe a little naive and innocent. He'll learn who to entrust his dogs to. I was sad to see how photos of his Lion were used inappropriately on Puppyfind. I'll help Javier any way I can. I have two of his dogs already, couldn't be happier with them, and trust him to advise me as to which to purchase next. Susan Dodge, Clover Hill Yorkshire Terriers, Boston MA Clover Hill Yorkshire Terriers |
Thanks FlDebra. Sounds like someone got their hand caught in the cookie jar. Then was mad she could not have her way. Dee, Misty, and FlDebra - thumbs up! |
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Based off your insults in the other thread, you seem to have no respect for the members here at YT and it's clear you have little regard for anything anyone here has to say--your loss. (Sorry, but insulting the 'everyday' members here as you did in the other thread was uncalled for.) At this point, the argument has pass the point of ridiculous and I doubt that any further efforts to "explain yourself" will be taken seriously. |
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