USDA Breeder List

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Oh, well, from my perspective the USDA is doing a great job, and if a person only saw our kennel as an example of how the USDA regulates breeders, they'd say the same thing, but we are just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Our USDA inspector chats with us when she's out here, and it's INSANE the things she has said - like commercial facilities with 1,500+ dogs, multiple breeds, endless violations, etc etc. Now, I've never seen (in person) a kennel with more than 50 dogs, so I have NO IDEA what that would be like. I can only imagine. And there are lots of facilities like that. They consider anything under a couple hundred dogs to be small. Our measley 30 is like nothing - and to us it's full time work for 3 people!

Plus, our USDA lady has like 3 states that she inspects... how can one person possibly do that? A couple hundred kennels per year per person?

You can easily see why the system doesn't work - not because the premise is wrong, but because the resources aren't there. It's almost like an honor system to an extent.

Maybe you should go with the inspector and check out a few other kennels. We might get another undercover bust.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Oh, well, from my perspective the USDA is doing a great job, and if a person only saw our kennel as an example of how the USDA regulates breeders, they'd say the same thing, but we are just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Our USDA inspector chats with us when she's out here, and it's INSANE the things she has said - like commercial facilities with 1,500+ dogs, multiple breeds, endless violations, etc etc. Now, I've never seen (in person) a kennel with more than 50 dogs, so I have NO IDEA what that would be like. I can only imagine. And there are lots of facilities like that. They consider anything under a couple hundred dogs to be small. Our measley 30 is like nothing - and to us it's full time work for 3 people!

Plus, our USDA lady has like 3 states that she inspects... how can one person possibly do that? A couple hundred kennels per year per person?

You can easily see why the system doesn't work - not because the premise is wrong, but because the resources aren't there. It's almost like an honor system to an extent.

Our AKC inspector for this area inspects 3 states. She is in each state one week per month and inspects quite a few breeders.I have been inspected 3 times in 10 years.

[WalnutHill]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Our AKC inspector for this area inspects 3 states. She is in each state one week per month and inspects quite a few breeders.I have been inspected 3 times in 10 years.

Holy crap. : ) That's crazy. Haha - and you live in an area with a lot fewer breeders than me! : ) Imagine how it owuld be to inspect like Missouri, Texas and Oklahoma (or whatever our inspector has).

As far as checking out commercial breeders, I would consider that if I wasn't so freaky about hygene. I am so afraid of bringing any new virus to our dogs that I have to disinfect myself and my car after a trip to the vet's office. : ) If I went to a yucky kennel, I'd have to spend a week sterilizing myself before I could touch one of our Yorkies! : )

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Holy crap. : ) That's crazy. Haha - and you live in an area with a lot fewer breeders than me! : ) Imagine how it owuld be to inspect like Missouri, Texas and Oklahoma (or whatever our inspector has).

As far as checking out commercial breeders, I would consider that if I wasn't so freaky about hygene. I am so afraid of bringing any new virus to our dogs that I have to disinfect myself and my car after a trip to the vet's office. : ) If I went to a yucky kennel, I'd have to spend a week sterilizing myself before I could touch one of our Yorkies! : )

LOL! I would love to be an AKC inspector but I could never have dogs just because of what you said. I would be afraid to touch my dogs after visiting some kennels.

[bugsmomma]

WalnutHill-
I just wish you were the rule and not the exception.

[WalnutHill]

Originally Posted by bugsmomma

WalnutHill-
I just wish you were the rule and not the exception.

The only way to make that happen is to change the way people see dogs - not as livestock, but a companions. I'm not talking about calling them "Canine americans" or anything, I don't think dogs are people, but I don't think they are livestock that you can buy a couple and multiply them and sell them to make quick money.

Here in Missouri, there are obviously a lot of puppy mills. Many very close to where I live. Around here, people get a couple of dogs, breed them, make a little cash, and realize they can buy more dogs, breed more dogs, and make more money. They give their dogs sub-standard care because it's cheaper. They do whatever they can to spend as little money as possible on their "operation," and use the internet to sell their puppies to people who live too far away to ever come see the kennel or the dogs. They are con-artists (look up Christy or Cody Harmon or Double C Ranch on Google - they live about 15 minutes from us and are HORRIBLE "breeders" - I went to school with them).

This is another reason why I think the biggest red flag for a breeder is if they have more than one breed of dog (two maybe, but if they have 8, run away!).

My dad has spent YEARS learning about Yorkies, and believe me, it will take many more to really get a good handle on the breeding program, etc, etc, and there is no way that a person can have multiple breeds of dogs and be doing anything but trying to make a quick buck.

I have been working with my dad for almost a year now, and every day I just learn how much I don't know. I hope over the next 30 years I'll be able to call myself an "expert," but it will probably take 30 years before I'd feel comfortable saying that.

Anyway, sorry to rant, but I get worked up about this stuff. : ) Seems like everyone else does, too, so I guess it's okay. LOL

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

You can easily see why the system doesn't work - not because the premise is wrong, but because the resources aren't there. It's almost like an honor system to an extent.

Oh definitely! It's not working at all. As I said in the other thread, if it *was* working, we'd be hearing of puppy mills busts every single day for the next few years!

This is why, for me, the argument of those opposed to new legislation of "we already have laws in place and they're working" just falls completely flat. So what if we have laws in place that are SUPPOSED to work - the fact is, they don't.

Originally Posted by bugsmomma

WalnutHill-
I just wish you were the rule and not the exception.

[yorkiekist]

Why should more legislation be passed if there arent enough people to enforce the laws we already have? I think this problem should fall at the USDa's feet. Maybe they need to hire more people! They chould be held accountable and fix this problem. If Walnuhill says they do a great job, than what seems to be the problem other than hiring more people?

[WalnutHill]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Why should more legislation be passed if there arent enough people to enforce the laws we already have? I think this problem should fall at the USDa's feet. Maybe they need to hire more people! They chould be held accountable and fix this problem. If Walnuhill says they do a great job, than what seems to be the problem other than hiring more people?

Hiring more people would certainly help, that's for sure.

Another thing that could make a difference is passing a law to stream-line the process of revoking licenses. It shouldn't take someone 3 years of blatantly disobeying the rules in order to get shut-down. (Not that removing a license will shut them down, but it will make it harder to sell puppies -and certainly not to brokers or pet stores). And, the ability of the inspector / humane society to remove animals from awful conditions in a timely manner - it shouldn't take years to revoke a license, and it shouldn;t take weeks to seize dogs that are in immediate danger.

As far as the minimum standards are concerned, though I think they should be raised, that will be fought to the death by commercial breeders, and it will take many years for that to happen. So, in the immediate, what should be done is hiring more inspectors who actually have something that can force people to comply with the already MINIMAL standards.

New laws are just lip service if there isn't anyone to enforce them. People can say anything they want in legislation, but if no one is doing anything about it, then it's completely pointless. (We still have a law on the books here that says it's illegal to spit on the sidewalk.... no one has been cited with that violation in my lifetime, for sure - the law is there, but no one pays any attention). The law doesn't mean any behavior has changed, and unless anyone is doing anything about it, laws are just polite sugestions. The only people who will comply are the ones that care (and were complying before). The con-artist, criminals, puppy mills, will still continue to mistreat their dogs and make money at the expense of the helpless babies.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I think this problem should fall at the USDa's feet. Maybe they need to hire more people! They chould be held accountable and fix this problem. If Walnuhill says they do a great job, than what seems to be the problem other than hiring more people?

They clearly do need more people, that's for sure. Too bad they don't take volunteers.

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Hiring more people would certainly help, that's for sure.

Another thing that could make a difference is passing a law to stream-line the process of revoking licenses. It shouldn't take someone 3 years of blatantly disobeying the rules in order to get shut-down. (Not that removing a license will shut them down, but it will make it harder to sell puppies -and certainly not to brokers or pet stores). And, the ability of the inspector / humane society to remove animals from awful conditions in a timely manner - it shouldn't take years to revoke a license, and it shouldn;t take weeks to seize dogs that are in immediate danger.

Totally agree. Though I'm still not totally convinced the USDA is the right entity for this endeavor.

[Obie]

Here in PA when the law was passed to crack down on puppymills it hurt more of the good breeders with it. Many rescue's and shelters had to jump in and help write the amendments in the bill so it wouldn't hurt their rescue operations. The Women's Humane society was one of them that relies heavily on donations to keep the facility open. The anger in PA was towards the amish for running puppymills but after the law was passed, Governor Randel hired more inspectors and beefed up the inspections on commercial breeding facilities. What I have now been hearing is that more of the boarding facilities are shutting down because they too were under this law and to them it just wasn't worth the hassle of going through the inspections because it indirectly should not have applied to them but because of the way the law was written, it did. That is why it is so important to be a participant when a bill is being passed that the wording within the bill is not hurting those who are there to help.

[fannie]

There has to be a way that we can impose laws that will restrict the puppy mills and BYB, yet retain the rights of a reputable breeder. It might mean jumping through more hoops, but I'm ok with that. Having more inspectors *in my opinion* is the first place to start. Enforcing the regulations that we already have in place in a timely manner could make a huge difference. Unfortunately, there are too many puppy mills that are not licensed and will never get checked until somebody turns them in.

[Ashley V]

Chip's breeder is on that list He was born in Lancaster, PA.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ashley V

Chip's breeder is on that list He was born in Lancaster, PA.

With the new laws that Pennsylvania has recently pasted, maybe some of Chip's relatives will live in better conditions in the future. I hope so.

[Ashley V]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

With the new laws that Pennsylvania has recently pasted, maybe some of Chip's relatives will live in better conditions in the future. I hope so.

Unforunately, I did research on his "breeder" a few months back and the owner shot all of the dogs because he was told to take them to the vet or get shut down.