USDA Breeder List

[yorkiekist]

I just looked through that list of usda breeders and didnt find a whole lot of po boxes listed compared to actual addys.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Alot of AKC show breeders are going to PO boxes so that peta,hsus and ar fanatics cant find where they live.
AKC is fine with that, but if they want to inspect, they will call you or write you a letter and you better let them know where you live or your AKC privledges will be taken away until you do.

Is there any recourse that usda has when a usda breeder will not let them inspect?

Anybody???

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I just looked through that list of usda breeders and didnt find a whole lot of po boxes listed compared to actual addys.

What we were really referring to earlier w/ the PO Boxes was the Grabers in Indiana (they came up on the other thread) -- and when they found out the USDA wanted to investigate/inspect them, they (and all their "affiliated mills") changed their physical addresses to "PO box 44", so that no one could locate them and inspect them in a timely manner. If you look at Indiana specifically you'll see that all of these people, with various last names (and even a version of "Graber"..the "Rabers"), have PO Box 44 as their address. All of those mills are the ones who changed their addresses once they found out they were going to be investigated. Not cool.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

What we were really referring to earlier w/ the PO Boxes was the Grabers in Indiana (they came up on the other thread) -- and when they found out the USDA wanted to investigate/inspect them, they (and all their "affiliated mills") changed their physical addresses to "PO box 44", so that no one could locate them and inspect them in a timely manner. If you look at Indiana specifically you'll see that all of these people, with various last names (and even a version of "Graber"..the "Rabers"), have PO Box 44 as their address. All of those mills are the ones who changed their addresses once they found out they were going to be investigated. Not cool.

So is there a usda recourse when a usda registerd breeder refuses to be inspected, like loosing their license inabling them to sell puppies?

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by wildcard

They can be changed by the USDA, it would not take a new federal bill to change them as they are part of the code of federal regulations. That would most likely be a much faster way of making the changes that you believe are necessary.

There are all kinds of reports out there from people who have filed complaints about Mills, over and over, and the USDA doesn't take action - despite proof that they should according to their OWN regulations.

So, how would changing the USDA regulations be effective when they already refuse to follow through?

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

So is there a usda recourse when a usda registerd breeder refuses to be inspected, like loosing their license inabling them to sell puppies?

That I really don't know, Lyn. I wonder the same thing. In doing research today, I found the USDA follows through w/ very little in terms of Mills...so...I just don't know what they'd really do.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

There are all kinds of reports out there from people who have filed complaints about Mills, over and over, and the USDA doesn't take action - despite proof that they should according to their OWN regulations.

So, how would changing the USDA regulations be effective when they already refuse to follow through?

Maybe USda needs a long needed big kick in the *ss.LOL We always say: You can run, but you cannot hide from the AKC!LOL
How easy would it be to shut down mills that refuse to be inspected? No inspection, No USDa license, No puppy sales.

[fannie]

It's disgusting to see how many are licensed here in my state (MO). Hopefully the recent mill busts here are scaring some enough to just stop breeding. Something else that I noticed on the USDA lists is that you can see an individuals name, but not always their kennel name. So you have people that have the license under someone else's name so it won't necessarily look like the kennel is USDA licensed. kwim?

[WalnutHill]

I don't want ot go on a rant here, and it's probably because I feel this is a personal attack, but USDA licensing does not necessarially equal bad breeder. I have said this in previous threads, but I'll say it again.

My dad started breeding 15 years ago, and he has always been more interested in the dogs than all of the paperwork that goes along with it. He "studied" under another breeder who told him everything he needed to do - state licensing, USDA licensing, AKC requirements for records, etc. So, he applied for the USDA license, gets inspected a couple times a year, and that's that.

I recently found out that we are exempt from USDA licensing (thanks to a thread on YT, I did some research on the regulations), so we will be letting our license expire, but we are currently USDA licensed. So, everytime someone posts the list like it's a list of puppymills, I get a little peeved.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

I don't want ot go on a rant here, and it's probably because I feel this is a personal attack, but USDA licensing does not necessarially equal bad breeder. I have said this in previous threads, but I'll say it again.

My dad started breeding 15 years ago, and he has always been more interested in the dogs than all of the paperwork that goes along with it. He "studied" under another breeder who told him everything he needed to do - state licensing, USDA licensing, AKC requirements for records, etc. So, he applied for the USDA license, gets inspected a couple times a year, and that's that.

I recently found out that we are exempt from USDA licensing (thanks to a thread on YT, I did some research on the regulations), so we will be letting our license expire, but we are currently USDA licensed. So, everytime someone posts the list like it's a list of puppymills, I get a little peeved.

I think it's important to realize that not everyone who has a USDA label runs a puppy mill. However, it's considered a red flag, especially in your state.

[sandyapk]

Uneducated and guilty. I bought a dog from someone on the list. I guess we lucked out that our girl is perfectly healthy so far. I love her so much, wish I would of known at the time.

[WalnutHill]

Yes, I can see it being a "red flag" but I don' think you should discount a breeder immediately because of the USDA label - still go check them out, etc.

That's the only reason we'll be letting our USDA license expire, because it's got a negative connotation.

And, just as a side note, the USDA does a great job, there are just toooo many kennels and not enough inspectors. Add to that the red tape that goes in to complaints, and it takes years to remove the license from a bad breeder. The requirements for a USDA license are very minimal (we never even do anything to prepare for an inspection), but the inspector has to document all problems, document that they told the breeder ot fix the problems, come back and document that the changes weren't made, write another complaint, impose fines, come back and tell them to change it again, and then etc etc before anything can really be done. That's the US government for ya!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Yes, I can see it being a "red flag" but I don' think you should discount a breeder immediately because of the USDA label - still go check them out, etc.

That's the only reason we'll be letting our USDA license expire, because it's got a negative connotation.

And, just as a side note, the USDA does a great job, there are just toooo many kennels and not enough inspectors. Add to that the red tape that goes in to complaints, and it takes years to remove the license from a bad breeder. The requirements for a USDA license are very minimal (we never even do anything to prepare for an inspection), but the inspector has to document all problems, document that they told the breeder ot fix the problems, come back and document that the changes weren't made, write another complaint, impose fines, come back and tell them to change it again, and then etc etc before anything can really be done. That's the US government for ya!

I agree, I don't think you should dismiss the breeder either for this reason, and I love the fact that you agree on checking them out. The information you give on USDA is interesting, and it does sound like they are overworked to do all the necessary inspections. So many small breeders seem to think that the USDA is doing an adequate job regulating commercial dog kennels, and this doesn't seem to be the case.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I agree, I don't think you should dismiss the breeder either for this reason, and I love the fact that you agree on checking them out. The information you give on USDA is interesting, and it does sound like they are overworked to do all the necessary inspections. So many small breeders seem to think that the USDA is doing an adequate job regulating commercial dog kennels, and this doesn't seem to be the case.

I wonder with the trillion dollar stimulous bill if any of it will go to usda to hire employees, therfore creating jobs?LOL

[WalnutHill]

Oh, well, from my perspective the USDA is doing a great job, and if a person only saw our kennel as an example of how the USDA regulates breeders, they'd say the same thing, but we are just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Our USDA inspector chats with us when she's out here, and it's INSANE the things she has said - like commercial facilities with 1,500+ dogs, multiple breeds, endless violations, etc etc. Now, I've never seen (in person) a kennel with more than 50 dogs, so I have NO IDEA what that would be like. I can only imagine. And there are lots of facilities like that. They consider anything under a couple hundred dogs to be small. Our measley 30 is like nothing - and to us it's full time work for 3 people!

Plus, our USDA lady has like 3 states that she inspects... how can one person possibly do that? A couple hundred kennels per year per person?

You can easily see why the system doesn't work - not because the premise is wrong, but because the resources aren't there. It's almost like an honor system to an extent.