Parti confussion????? - Page 22 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

JeanieK · 02-01-2009, 10:55 AM

[quote from Woogie man]I think you said it all in the words 'so far'. There is an acknowledged risk that cannot be ignored

Maybe more than watched. A proactive attempt to avoid the extreme piebalds might be more in order.

[/quote]

So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future

surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen

If that is the case than I think it can be said that we should all stop breeding and leave it up to the animals and the survival of the fittest, as The Good Lord intended.

After all the Lord provided the perfect dog and man has been trying to "improve the breed" ever since.

JeanieK · 02-01-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The YTCA as the mother club of the Yorkshire terrier acts like any other good mother when trying to protect its young. As of yet, scientists are still unclear on how these genes are transmitted . . . . so as a good mother the YTCA understands that you don't do something for a child and wait to see if its bad. If you see it's bad for other children (breeds) you are especially cautious. Until scientists know for sure how it's passed, it's not possible to eliminate the deafness or other problems associated with it. The wait and see attitude bothers me because I feel very protective of the breed. When producing new life, isn't always better to error on the side of caution?

First
The YTCA set the standards for the breed, as they wanted them to be, they did not Create the Yorkshire Terrier.

Second
The wait and see attitude??? I would imagine thopse that developed any breed had to go therough the wait and see period during the development process.

Third
The problem has not occured in all breeds or all dogs of one breed, which leads me to believe it is more than one gene causing the problem, it is a combination.

Woogie Man · 02-01-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanieK

This statement indicates that you have knowledge of deafness occuring in Parti colored yorkies. Maybe you can tell us which line they are from and how common the occurance is.

Here is what I said..... "It is true that partis with more color don't seem to have the problem with deafness; it's mainly the ones with a lot of white, especially on the head." I never mentioned Yorkies in particular so your inference is wrong. There really isn't any info I could find about parti (piebald) Yorkies specifically. The information available is what is known about the piebald effect in other breeds. It is consistent and does have good research behind it. I said it before and I'll say it again. What makes the Yorkie unique so that the piebald effect wouldn't be true as it is with other breeds? In other breeds, the problems arise with the extreme piebald effect, especially with white extending to the ear. I posted links earlier and you can also easily google if you want more info.

yorkiekist · 02-01-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

No some do not breed the white boxers, however I have seen one reputable breeder do this about 10 years back in AL. This actually made me sick to know. She breed two flashly boxers together on purpose to produce 4 white puppies, and the rest normal color. I asked why would she do this. Her words it is better to put two flashy dogs together to get the show coat and take the risk with getting a few whites............she sold the whites one at 1500 each with two going full registration to another nice breeding program that was doing some study within her program.

Julie

There is ALWAYS one in every crowd.

yorkiekist · 02-01-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

If you look at the spotting patterns of the Irish Spotting gene, it more closely resembles the patterning of the Biewers. White legs, white tummy, white tip of tail, white going up the neck to the chin, color on the back. The Piebald gene creates a more random patterning, like the Parti where the Irish spotting is basically very uniform.

Diana

Thank you!!

JeanieK · 02-01-2009, 11:11 AM

The fact is, we are ALL messing with Gods perfect creations. Those wo breed traditionals are no different in that respect. Where the difference lies is by the time you started breeding, someone else had allready gone through the "what ifs" and "wait and sees" asnd taken all of the risks.

You took on a breed that had already been perfected (as much as man can perfect).

We are aware of all of the possible health issues, Lord knows we've been told about it enough. But at this point, none of those things have come true. If and when they do we will certainly make changes to our programs, but that does not mean we wil scrap the programs, we will try to determine what created the problem.

Would you scrap your entire program, never to breed again, if you produced one unhealthy puppy.? I think not. You would make the necessary modifications, if you could even determine what that would entail.

yorkiekist · 02-01-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanieK

We eare very open to discovering the truth, but are certainloy not goi9ng to take everything some nay sayers report to be the truth.

Rest assured that if we start getting deaf puppies, we will change our breeding practices. here is not much of a market for deaf dogs. And seeing as we are not showing them, there would be no incentive to continue to breed a pair that produced deaf puppies.

What does the showing part have to do with this? Producing healthy quality puppies should be done reguardless if you show or not.

JeanieK · 02-01-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

What does the showing part have to do with this? Producing healthy quality puppies should be done reguardless if you show or not.

From statements that you have made in the past, there is only one reason, other than showing, to breed dogs, and that would be to get rich. So since there is no market for deaf dogs, and we do not show them, there would be no reason to continue breeding them.

yorkiekist · 02-01-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanieK

From statements that you have made in the past, there is only one reason, other than showing, to breed dogs. So since there is no market for deaf dogs, and we do not show them, there would be no reason to continue breeding them.

Sorry, your statement makes absolutley no sense to me. Are you saying that there has to be a "market" for a certain breed of dog before you can show it?

Woogie Man · 02-01-2009, 11:32 AM

Here is a quote from your post, JeanieK..."So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future
My response...There is no color related deafness in traditional Yorkies due to the lack of the piebald gene. Any deafness that might occur would be from some other cause.

And, here's your other quote..."surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen" My response......Obviously, I'm not advocating that. In the case of piebalds, it is not a case of something that might or might not happen, but rather a case of something that can and does happen. It doesn't always happen, but it is an additional risk that must be considered. I'm sure this will be more clear to you as you do your own research.

Tnyorkiemom · 02-01-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

What does the showing part have to do with this? Producing healthy quality puppies should be done reguardless if you show or not.

well said, well said

chachi · 02-01-2009, 11:37 AM

From what I read the deafness can occur at a later age. So it seems like you wouldnt even know if the partis being bred now would have future deafnessand passing it off to their offspring. Is that correct? That seems to be a very big chance to take

yorkiekist · 02-01-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Here is a quote from your post, JeanieK..."So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future
My response...There is no color related deafness in traditional Yorkies due to the lack of the piebald gene. Any deafness that might occur would be from some other cause.

And, here's your other quote..."surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen" My response......Obviously, I'm not advocating that. In the case of piebalds, it is not a case of something that might or might not happen, but rather a case of something that can and does happen. It doesn't always happen, but it is an additional risk that must be considered. I'm sure this will be more clear to you as you do your own research.

My thoughts also.

my2boyz · 02-01-2009, 11:43 AM

There are a lot of breeds that can have deafness in their lines like Dalmation and Boston Terriers. Does that mean they shouldn't be bred altogether as a breed or does it mean you don't breed the lines that you know produced the deaf puppies?

Nancy1999 · 02-01-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chachi

From what I read the deafness can occur at a later age. So it seems like you wouldnt even know if the partis being bred now would have future deafnessand passing it off to their offspring. Is that correct? That seems to be a very big chance to take

Yes that's correct and this is different than age related deafness. A 7-8 year old dog is not considered old.

02-01-2009, 11:37 AM	#327
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	From what I read the deafness can occur at a later age. So it seems like you wouldnt even know if the partis being bred now would have future deafnessand passing it off to their offspring. Is that correct? That seems to be a very big chance to take __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

02-01-2009, 10:55 AM	#316
JeanieK Donating YT 12K Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Council Bluffs Iowa Posts: 12,552	[quote from Woogie man]I think you said it all in the words 'so far'. There is an acknowledged risk that cannot be ignored Maybe more than watched. A proactive attempt to avoid the extreme piebalds might be more in order. [/quote] So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen If that is the case than I think it can be said that we should all stop breeding and leave it up to the animals and the survival of the fittest, as The Good Lord intended. After all the Lord provided the perfect dog and man has been trying to "improve the breed" ever since.

02-01-2009, 11:11 AM	#321
JeanieK Donating YT 12K Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Council Bluffs Iowa Posts: 12,552	The fact is, we are ALL messing with Gods perfect creations. Those wo breed traditionals are no different in that respect. Where the difference lies is by the time you started breeding, someone else had allready gone through the "what ifs" and "wait and sees" asnd taken all of the risks. You took on a breed that had already been perfected (as much as man can perfect). We are aware of all of the possible health issues, Lord knows we've been told about it enough. But at this point, none of those things have come true. If and when they do we will certainly make changes to our programs, but that does not mean we wil scrap the programs, we will try to determine what created the problem. Would you scrap your entire program, never to breed again, if you produced one unhealthy puppy.? I think not. You would make the necessary modifications, if you could even determine what that would entail.

02-01-2009, 11:32 AM	#325
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	Here is a quote from your post, JeanieK..."So Far there hasn't been any color related deafness in traditional yorkies either. does that mean there will be in the future My response...There is no color related deafness in traditional Yorkies due to the lack of the piebald gene. Any deafness that might occur would be from some other cause. And, here's your other quote..."surely you are not advocating that we just stop all breeding because of something that "might" or "might not' happen" My response......Obviously, I'm not advocating that. In the case of piebalds, it is not a case of something that might or might not happen, but rather a case of something that can and does happen. It doesn't always happen, but it is an additional risk that must be considered. I'm sure this will be more clear to you as you do your own research.

02-01-2009, 11:43 AM	#329
my2boyz Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :) Posts: 5,219	There are a lot of breeds that can have deafness in their lines like Dalmation and Boston Terriers. Does that mean they shouldn't be bred altogether as a breed or does it mean you don't breed the lines that you know produced the deaf puppies?