Originally Posted by Tanjay (Post 2428724)

Hiya, from Great Britain, got to be honest, I have not heard of Parti till I read this thread, but them again, I had not heard the term 'tea pot yorkie' before. I have just had a quick look on the kennel club web site and I dont see the word 'parti' anywhere, hope this helps

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2428739)

The "big deal" is that if you keep trying to change the parent breed standard, the breed will no longer look like the breed anymore. Reputable breeders breed to the breed standard and not to the latest popular fault being purposely breed most likely for the $$$$. The parti/off color breeders are doing just this all the while spouting their version of the history of the breed and basically telling you that the parent club(YTCA) is full of sh*t. Lets say that drop ears are now the big popular rage. You will then get irresponsible breeders breeding for that fault as well. Popularity=$$$. Simple economics.I guess you have to be a breed fancier to completely understand it. I am not saying you arent and I hope I explained this ok.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2428985)

Parent breed standards have been changed repeatedly over the lifetime of registered dogs. Adding the parti color does not change a thing about the traditional colored yorkshire terrier. The colors are part of the original makeup of the modern yorkshire terrier, and that fact has not changed. It has only recently been brought out in the open.

The number one leading authority, in the US, on the yorkshire terrier has admitted to the AKC that they were getting parti colored in their puppies 40 years ago. But no one wanted to admit that their Champion dog produced off colored puppies. To do so would have ruined their reputation. So those puppies were never registered, they were given away or destroyed, and kept secret.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2428739)

The "big deal" is that if you keep trying to change the parent breed standard, the breed will no longer look like the breed anymore. Reputable breeders breed to the breed standard and not to the latest popular fault being purposely breed most likely for the $$$$. The parti/off color breeders are doing just this all the while spouting their version of the history of the breed and basically telling you that the parent club(YTCA) is full of sh*t. Lets say that drop ears are now the big popular rage. You will then get irresponsible breeders breeding for that fault as well. Popularity=$$$. Simple economics.I guess you have to be a breed fancier to completely understand it. I am not saying you arent and I hope I explained this ok.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2428619)

Back in the dark ages when Pomp was around, almost no breeder put a spay/neuter agreement on their dogs. That how alot of these dogs ended up in indecscriminate breeders hands. In fact alot of the dogs being shown today go back to Pomp, some even go back multiple times. I even had dogs with muliple crosses to Pomp. Funny how none of the exhibitor breeders dont have parti's, even back in Pomps day. And dont tell me its a "dirty little secret" and its always "swept under the rug". Thats a bunch of BS and hersay.

I dont suppose, since you are the parti guru, you can tell me about any breeders in Britain that are purposely raising partis. There should be tons of parti breeders there since that is where the Yorkie originated. Are they exhibitor breeders of the byb type breeder.( I am not referring to Biewers in Germany)

Sometimes I get the feeling that you parti breeders are just a little miffed that YTCA will not allow different colors to be included in the standard. I think that your agenda is to eventually challenge the YTCA to change the standard so that you can also show your dogs. I am sure that the white german sheppard owners feel the same way.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2428619)

Back in the dark ages when Pomp was around, almost no breeder put a spay/neuter agreement on their dogs. That how alot of these dogs ended up in indecscriminate breeders hands. In fact alot of the dogs being shown today go back to Pomp, some even go back multiple times. I even had dogs with muliple crosses to Pomp. Funny how none of the exhibitor breeders dont have parti's, even back in Pomps day. And dont tell me its a "dirty little secret" and its always "swept under the rug". Thats a bunch of BS and hersay.
I dont suppose, since you are the parti guru, you can tell me about any breeders in Britain that are purposely raising partis. There should be tons of parti breeders there since that is where the Yorkie originated. Are they exhibitor breeders of the byb type breeder.( I am not referring to Biewers in Germany)

Sometimes I get the feeling that you parti breeders are just a little miffed that YTCA will not allow different colors to be included in the standard. I think that your agenda is to eventually challenge the YTCA to change the standard so that you can also show your dogs. I am sure that the white german sheppard owners feel the same way.

Originally Posted by Koran (Post 2429302)

At the risk of keeping this going are Biewers considered parti yorkies? Personally my goal was a healthy PET. Both my dogs hail from the same Mommy but Sparkle's dad was a german imported Biewer Yorkie. Her owner was german and had direct contact with someone close to the line that started it. Fact, who knows, but my concern was that I LOVE LOVE LOVE the standard colors and I really didnt want white in my pups coat. My first dog has PERFECT hair, teeth and coloring. I have had nothing but problems with Sparkle's skin and hair. The vet explained that this is common with the Biewer line but can be found in standard yorkies as well so he can't conclude that is the reason. But since Roscoe has none of the same problems it is a good guess. But a guess none the less.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2429308)

Out of curiosity, where did your vet get this information?

Originally Posted by Koran (Post 2429302)

At the risk of keeping this going are Biewers considered parti yorkies? Personally my goal was a healthy PET. Both my dogs hail from the same Mommy but Sparkle's dad was a german imported Biewer Yorkie. Her owner was german and had direct contact with someone close to the line that started it. Fact, who knows, but my concern was that I LOVE LOVE LOVE the standard colors and I really didnt want white in my pups coat. My first dog has PERFECT hair, teeth and coloring. I have had nothing but problems with Sparkle's skin and hair. The vet explained that this is common with the Biewer line but can be found in standard yorkies as well so he can't conclude that is the reason. But since Roscoe has none of the same problems it is a good guess. But a guess none the less.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2426900)

*sits back and grabs :2popkorn: *

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2428739)

The "big deal" is that if you keep trying to change the parent breed standard, the breed will no longer look like the breed anymore. Reputable breeders breed to the breed standard and not to the latest popular fault being purposely breed most likely for the $$$$. The parti/off color breeders are doing just this all the while spouting their version of the history of the breed and basically telling you that the parent club(YTCA) is full of sh*t. Lets say that drop ears are now the big popular rage. You will then get irresponsible breeders breeding for that fault as well. Popularity=$$$. Simple economics.I guess you have to be a breed fancier to completely understand it. I am not saying you arent and I hope I explained this ok.

Originally Posted by Missiemiss (Post 2429331)

Making more: :2popkorn:

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2429351)

I'll take a beer with mine.

Originally Posted by Missiemiss (Post 2429359)

1 beer, 1 Sierra Mist, a Margaritta for me! :)

Move over Blair - they are talking about you my precious little one!

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2429400)

Shall I bring her mama and daddy?

Originally Posted by Myslaydee (Post 2429076)

Well ive read over the post repeatedly and it seem that your only trying to defend this because u obviously have one i started this because i had never heard of the parti before until i read some one selling one! But its not worth the negative remarks. They are pretty, i just wondered if it messed up the standards of the yorkie. My opinion now i feel it does but it is MY OPINION. My questions have been answered thanks everyone!!:):aimeeyork:aimeeyork

Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 2429093)

So is it a fact that almost "no breeder put a spay/neuter agreement on their dogs" in the 60's and 70's or is this your opinion? If it's a fact, when did breeders start requiring spay/neuter agreements or when did they begin selling pups on limited registrations?

Is it a fact that "none of the exhibitor breeders dont have parti's, even back in Pomps day," or is it your opinion? I think we've shown you at least two very reputable show breeders who have had parti's. As for "BS and here say", maybe if you contact AKC and speak with someone who was directly involved in the parti investigation - so you get the facts from the horses mouth and not just someone's "opinion" - maybe they could shed some light on which other Old time breeders were interviewed and which breeders said they had off colors appearing in their litters?

I don't consider myself a "parti guru." I consider myself as someone with an open mind; someone who has a basic understanding of how recessive genes work and someone who will do their research when something I'm told to believe, just doesn't jive.

I don't think that the UK allows off colored yorkies to be registered so, no, I don't know of anyone - they are still in the closet.

Personally, I'm not "miffed" but disappointed that there appears to be a double standard on off coloring in the breed and I'm disappointed that the information on their website is inaccurate and misleading.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2429268)

And of course you have proof of that statment.

Also I believe the parti colored yorkies in Europe are called Biewers. Unless of course you believe that the entire story about the Biewer couple is a lie.

I personally am not miffed about anything. I could not care less whether or not the YTCA accepts the color or not. Their rules mean nothing to me. I would not join an organization that is so closed minded that they refuse to believe the facts that have come right from the horses mouths.

Times have changed. The show community is no longer this tightly knit little group of people. Many breeders that used to be controlled by the YTCA, got tired of it and have thumbed their noses at their rules and have brought their beautiful colorful yorkies out of the closet. They saw the beauty in the dog and did not feel it was right to deny this color a chance to show itself.

My partis came from a former show breeder. They are direct descendents of Champions. Dogs that judges found to be the best examples of the breed accordng to the standards set down by the YTCA. Did I mention Champions?

Perhaps the YTCA is the one that is miffed. Miffed at those who dared to openly admit that these Campion dogs were parti gene carriers.

Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 2426309)

Parti yorkies may not be the YTCA standard but AKC in the late 1990's, did extensive DNA testing of parti litters and tested back as far as possible to the related adults (to the parti litters) from the Nikkos lines. AKC also spoke with Old time breeders, who were breeding in the 20's - 70's to see if these breeders ever experienced off color in their breeding program. It was determined that off color, including parti did appear in the earlier days and continue to appear in litters today (much to a breeders surprise).

Many of the new parti lines we see today (parti litters being produced by two traditional colored yorkies) are tracing back to one dog born in the late
1950's, CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance, including the Nikkos parti dogs. Wildweir Kennels was one of the kennels AKC interviewed about Parti color showing up and Wildweir told AKC that they had Parti colored pups being born
in their own litters.

It is thought by YTCA that 2 of the foundation stock that began the YT breed was the Scotch Terrier, the Skye (Clydesdale and Paisley being offshoots of the Skye) and the Old English terrier.

These foundation dogs, were not papered, and their heritage was unknown. They may have had a look or color that was desired but as for the recessive genes hiding within, no one can say what genes is or isn't there.

Historical writings and Illustrations indicate that there were "off colors" prior to the Yorkshire terrier becoming a breed ... scotch terriers with white markings, English Terriers that weren't black and tan and Skye terriers that
were brown in color.

If recessive genes are being traced back to a dog born in the 1950's (50 years ago), why can't the recessive genes be coming from dogs that began the breed 70 or so years earlier?

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2429709)

But you act like the "parti guru" LOL You are the only one on here that seems to have all of the knowledge about partis. By the way, parti guru is not meant to be a negative thing.:)

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2429796)

I had to re-read your post and find that it is amazing that you say the parti lines all trace back to Pomp. That being said the following show kennels/show dogs must be parti producers as they have dogs with MULTIPLE crosses to Pomp......

Originally Posted by Missiemiss (Post 2429466)

Bring them! That's how she got her beauty!!! (FYI: She's a DADDY'S GIRL!)

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2429719)

I think YOU are the one just a tad closed minded. And are "champions" your only claim to fame and your best bragging rights? And I already clarifyed the Biewer part in my statement. You must have mis-read what I stated. I just wondered if you know of parti breeders in Britain as there must be a ton of them since that is where the Yorkie originated from. I already stated that I was not talking about Biewers in Germany. so do you know any? And I do not believe the Biewer story. But it has been discovered that another breed was introduced to create the breed.
Oh, did I mention Champions? Reputable breeders would neuter and spay any Champion that continually produced faults.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2430183)

Reputable Breeders would want one to believe that they spay neuter any dog that produces an off colored puppy, but it is more likely that they just hid the puppy and continues to breed their champions. Because although they produced an occasional off colored puppy, they also produced many champions. Anyone who believes differently is a little naive.

No I do not know of any parti breeder in GB, but that does not mean that they don't exist.

And YES, to me the fact that my partis came from Champion lines, proves to me that the Officials were not able to tell the difference between a parti gene carrier and a non parti gene carrier and therefor it is a pretty sure bet that the gene has been in the breed for a long long time. If they had been crossed with something else surely the experts would have been able to tell, and if not, then what is the purpose of showing, if the experts cannot tell a mutt from a pure bred.

if you do not believe the biewer story then tell us a better one. apparently the experts in germany believed the story.