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08-01-2008, 04:50 PM | #1 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :)
Posts: 5,219
| Why the double standard? This is mainly a breeding question but I didn't want it in the breeder's section because not all breeders read there. So, here goes... Why the double standard? Here's the totally hypothetical, made up scenario..... Male Yorkie (father) is 3.5 pounds...mother is 5.5 pounds...they have a litter of 4 pups. 2 of the puppies look to be tiny and will stay small like their father but 1 male and 1 female are on the 'larger' side and will end up in the 7 to 9 pound range. The 2 tinies are sold as lap pets...the larger female is sold as a breeder because she's larger and should have large litters with easy deliveries but comes from small parents so she could throw small pups. However, the larger male is sold as a pet, no matter how nice, simply because he's larger. Now, if the larger female is sold as a breeder with the speculation that she could throw small pups...why isn't the larger male? Doesn't he have the same chance of throwing small pups? After all...they are from the same lines...right? I have been reading more ads and websites lately that feel the larger males shouldn't be used for breeding. Is it because puppies get their size from the father? Is it because puppies don't sell as well if prospective buyers see that the father was on the larger side? Is there another reason I'm missing? Not trying to start anything here...it's just something I've been wondering about and I think there are a lot of beautiful males out there that are being short changed simply for their size. |
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08-01-2008, 04:57 PM | #2 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,741
| You have to research each dogs generations. They can take on all different sizes. Maybe the smallest puppy will end up being the largest from his litter. However typically breeders use a smaller male when they breed. But you do need to do the search down the generations to make sure there isn't larger dogs in there history. You might have a female that is say 5lbs but in her generation they might have had larger dogs. Then its a worry if she will have puppies that she might not be able to deliver. Hope that helps. Sure others will be here soon to help you as well.
__________________ " Santa's on his Way! From: Cali, Cinnamon, and Zoie. |
08-01-2008, 05:35 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :)
Posts: 5,219
| I understand about researching the pedigrees and all of that and I understand that a small female could throw a large puppy that she could have trouble with. In this hypothetical situation the female isn't small...she's larger. I am asking mainly about the larger male, if his sister of the same size can be used for breeding then why shouldn't he even with an appropriate sized female? |
08-01-2008, 05:38 PM | #4 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,693
| He can be used for breeding. Just because he's big doesn't mean that the puppies he throws will be big. Like others have said it depends on the lines and what's in their background.
__________________ Steph, Mama to 6 skin babies and beautiful yorkies! |
08-01-2008, 06:03 PM | #5 | |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 4,280
| Quote:
Donna Bird Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers | |
08-01-2008, 06:09 PM | #6 | |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 4,280
| Quote:
Donna | |
08-01-2008, 06:24 PM | #7 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :)
Posts: 5,219
| I know he can be used for breeding...I'm just wondering why more breeders don't. If they will use a bigger female why not a bigger male from the same lines? |
08-01-2008, 06:44 PM | #8 |
YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 288
| My opinion is that the reason for using a larger female, is because it is easier for her to whelp, if she is larger, not ONLY because she will throw small pups, but because she will throw smaller pups, AND it will be easier for her to whelp. If you are breeding a larger male, to a smaller female, there is a possibility that the male could throw a larger pup that is too large for the female. The reason that a large female is used is for an easier delivery on the Mom. If I had a 6 lb female, I would not want to breed with an 8 lb male, even if he came from small parents, because there is a possibility he can throw a larger pup, that would be too large for a 6 lb female.....does that make sense? |
08-01-2008, 06:56 PM | #9 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,693
| I can't speak for other breeders and what they do. However, my male is 6 1/2 lbs. I don't worry so much about HIS size as I worry about the size that he throws.
__________________ Steph, Mama to 6 skin babies and beautiful yorkies! |
08-01-2008, 07:18 PM | #10 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Florida/Canada
Posts: 5,514
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08-01-2008, 07:39 PM | #11 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,079
| I personally will not use a small male, nor would I want one that threw small puppies. By small I mean less than 4 lbs as an adult...although I prefer to see puppies mature to at least 5 lbs. Both of our males are 6 lbs and I love it, but we still on occassion get smaller pups. I like a little substance to a yorkie, more to love and I think they have healthier joints.
__________________ Jackie JaLa Yorkshire Terriers |
08-01-2008, 07:50 PM | #12 |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
| Size is only one consideration in breeding. You have to look at the overall picture. Most knowledgeable breeders know that it is okay to use a bigger male on a smaller female as long as there is no huge size difference and you are familiar with the lines. I prefer my females to be in the 6 to 7 lb range but that is not always easy. I have been told that it is the female that determines the size of the puppies when they are in the womb. |
08-02-2008, 11:14 AM | #13 |
BANNED! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky
Posts: 9,248
| i agree. I just sold a beautiful 5.6 lb male stud. he has sired two litters of five each. One puppy in each litter has been on the larger size the other eight have been smaller. His bloodline runs small tho. he just turned out to be a big boy. |
08-02-2008, 11:56 AM | #14 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,577
| small studs I have a soft spot in my heart for all the small studs I have owned over the years. Spanky, Julian, Shorty and Whiz were sired by the nicest of champions, they were 3 pounders..my sweet boys..two are at Rainbow Bridge, having lived 13 and 14 yrs... Shorty is now 12 yrs, retired as a pet, along with Whiz who is 6 yrs..talked to them last week....I miss you all. |
08-02-2008, 01:38 PM | #15 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 236
| Size is generally believed to be polygenic; it is a trait that is controlled by a number of genes with each gene having a small effect as opposed to being controlled by one gene. A smaller dog has the gene combination present that give it that small size, vice versa for the larger dog. Although littermates have genes in common, breeding to one dog from a litter is NOT the same as breeding to a littermate. The combination of their genes (genotype) differs. In a trait like size where there is a visible expression of the particular dog's genetic make-up (phenotype), you are better off using the littermate whose phenotype is what you want because you are more likely to have the correct genotype to pass on or help pass on the trait you desire. Not always, but your chances are better. Remember the real question is pelvic span versus just general size in deciding whether a bitch can free whelp. You also need to take the genetics of whelping behaviors into account too (dystocia is believed to be a genetic trait). You all are probably sick to death of the recommendation but Claudia Orlandi's ABCs of Dog Breeding is an excellent source for information concerning canine genetics. There are lots of misconceptions about how inheritance works and it does a great job of explaining the science of dog breeding. |
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