BAT Bile Acid Testing-Urgent Warning
 

See the Sick and Emergency section for a posting by KYBLUE about her recent bad experience with testing puppies. The thread is called "Testing Puppies Think About It" or something like that. HORRIFYING.

I just read it and feel so sad for the loss of this pup. I have to agree with her though. Soooo many people here always say NOT to buy a puppy without it being tested for LiverShunt. It is very stressful on a puppy being so small and all. I think the best that we can do is have the parents tested .Also talk to the new owners about getting them tested at age 6 months. I can't even imagine how sick to her stomach and shock this turned out to be:(

Genie,Cookie,Lola & Angel.

I am grateful for her warning. Just makes me want to cry. That has to be one of the saddest posts I have read.

I hope most of the breeders on here aren't being pressured into testing puppies due to what people on here post. There are certain situations where one "knows" there may be something wrong with a pup and testing is needed.

We are all here sharing experiences, giving advice... but hopefully we are all using our own experiences/knowledge and some advice from our vets to determine what is right for our pups.

Very sad story......:(

thank you

It is very sad, and the trouble is that the same people keep giving the same one sided advice that got this pup tested in the 1st place. Newer breeders are trying to "do" the right thing based on opinion strongly encouraged on forums. I am grateful to Rose for posting, and I'm very sorry she had to experience such a tragedy. :(

my dog showed NO signs but has it
 

I haven't read the thread but will go and read it. I am one who encourages testing. My dog showed NO signs until he came up with bladder stones at 1 1/2 years old. Had we tested, we may have prevented the MAJOR bills we are incurring because of the surgery and problems with his bladder now that it won't fully heal. I think testing at 6 mos is a good idea and definatly test the parents and retire them if an LS (liver shunt) dog pops up. He has congenital shunts according to Cornell and my surgeon.
I thought I didn't need to because he was top dog in his litter--full of spunk, vim and vigor and the breeder (Sherlyn Yorkshire Terriers) seemed on the up and up. I have since found out that anyone can get this--not just backyard breeders. I applaud you wonderful breeders who stand up and do the "right" thing when health problems pop up in your lines. Thank you for trying to do what you can to help the owners and prevent future problems.
So, after going through the heartache that my dog has gone through and finding others who had NO signs but because of my story, tested and are now on the appropriate prevention diet, I still encourage testing.

Why didn't you have your dog tested yourself at six months?

I didn't know. i thought that if you went to a reputable breeder that you didn't need to. I asked a ton of questions and spent months interviewing breeders. She told me her dogs were free from LS and other health problems but I found out differently later.

I just read that thread. OMG!!!!!!! That poor woman! I feel so badly for her. I was told to do BATs at 6most or older (after the fact that we went through it)and I guess now I know why. This poor woman sounds like she was trying so hard to be a good breeder. I hate when bad things happen to good people.

What is the right answer? I don't know anymore. I feel badly for the breeder who try to do the right thing and I feel badly for owners who are going through what I am and worse.

It is all so sad!

You should feel bad for breeders because we're the ones who end up being blamed for everything. The vets won't admit they're causing some of this liver disease with vaccinations, pills and ointments for everything under the sun. Yorkies are tiny dogs, and their livers are maybe not as big or strong as some other breeds, yet they get loaded up with these toxins then everybody looks at the breeder and says "congenital portosystemic shunt; it's all your fault; write me a big check." The last couple of years it's the dog food that's full of toxic material causing liver problems, but you take a sick Yorkie to the vet and all they want to do is say "liver shunt." They do surgery, can't find a shunt and they're still screaming CPSS. I have a house full of healthy Yorkies--no health problems whatsoever--but I do not give them all these vaccines and medicines the vet quacks are pushing. I'm careful what I feed them, keep their environment disease free and hope for the best, and so far it works great. The only liver shunt claim I ever had on a puppy came from one where they had loaded up this little 3 lb baby with vaccines for diseases we don't even get around here. I know it wasn't shunt, but some other liver damage they did themselves, but my guarantee was worded in such a way i couldn't get the puppy back to prove it...

I have had people ask me if I have tested 12 week old puppies. I cannot believe that they want puppies tested so small. There is no way that I would put a little pup through this. They need to have age and size on them before they are put through this test. Some small dogs should never be tested if they cannot fast for the required amount of time.

I feel badly for the GOOD breeders who try to do what they can but not for the ones who dont' or blame the owners. I was blamed for my dog's congenital condition and the cornell vets laughed because it is absolutely genetic. There are good and bad breeders and good and bad owners.

I don't do vaccines. The only one my dog has was from the breeder. I am into the natural approach and agree with you about all these vax. I agree with what you say and my house is like that too. That is why I was so surprised when this popped up in my dog.

I know that I've done the best that I can afford for my dog and that I didn't cause this. It happened and I only hope that others take precautions to protect their dogs by learning about LS, vaccine overdose, etc and knowing that dogs can show symptoms later on.

I don't have the answers and can only share my story. I can only commend good breeders and hope that other breeders will follow in their example.

I agree. I read that testing at 12 weeks is inconclusive anyways.,

ok my question would be as my pup died doing the testing

if people want pup's as a breeder which way do we go test puppies and have them die or test being inconclusive

or holding until 6 months and nobody want's them because they are not cute little puppies?

and with the amount of puppies priced at 500 how can we compete with doing $500 or better in testing a litter on top of raising them myself as a good breeder find no answer's
and just how many show kennels do you think test?
i know of several that do not even test there parent's

prevention
 

I would like to know how you prevent your dog from being exposed to something the vaccines might have prevented?
Forgive me for being intrusive but, I have 2/1/2 acres,my dogs can run on freely. I can't see everything they might try to bite into or lick.
I know my dogs have hunted down mice, ground squirrels, chip monks, moles, in my yard. My Angel vomited a mouse she ate last year. I was so grossed out. I took her to the vet the next day because I was so worried it might have eaten poisoning before she ate it.
I have 5 parks I can take my dogs to walk in and if they eat or lick anything there. I have a puppy that got sick with in 1 week of going to a park, and getting the 2nd distemper vaccine. The vet doesn't think his recent illness was from either of the above. He has been a vet since 1976. He has been a vet for several kennels in our area.
I have seen people not get there own children in our area vaccinated and wonder why they had whooping cough and a case of polio. I live within 60 miles from Chicago, South Bend, etc. My daughter works in an emergency department at a local hospital one of the local chinese restaurant owners had to bring in their son who got his fingers caught in a meat grinder and lost 4 fingers off his hand. The little boy was 3 and had no vaccinations. They go to China every year to visit family with their restaurant.
I don't understand not wanting to protect your own children from what others may expose you too. Even if the chance is slim?

:confused::confused: i don't know

I agree and a few of these posting about it are not breeders and that is what really makes me mad they have no hands on with this,so IMO they should not say anything at all .

Rose I will say again I am so sorry and hope your heart is mending a little each day,
Thanks for sharing your sad story with us,so we can all learn from this!

thank's i believe there is breeder to breeder respect in most cases
and non breeder's just don't understand what we go threw

Respect Among Breeders
 

Newbie's and non-breeders can gain a lot of knowledge from reading these posts. In fact even the seasoned breeder should read and learn, nobody knows it all.

BUT...."Knowledge becomes wisdom when you add experience."

If you have been breeding any time at all you have asked yourself "What have I gotten into? This is too hard!" But after the crisis is dealt with and the emotions have healed....you have learned. It's difficult....it's humbling...but it's the process. Those who give advice from the sidelines mean well, but they haven't walked a mile in your shoes. They don't have a puppy's life hanging in the balance of their decision.

Making a decision is easy....living with that decision.....that's a little harder. JMO

My dogs live inside of a very clean house and they have access only to a small area of the back garden where I can monitor what they come into contact with. If you want a dog you can take for walks in the woods or public parks, get a big one that isn't prone to these health problems. A Yorkshire Terrier is a delicate little lap dog not meant to be walking through all this dirty stuff. People have to apply some sense to the situation!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

i think it is dangerous to walk your dogs.. they can pick up diseases easily from sniffing all the other dogs who were there previously.. my dogs dont run loose in the woods where they might encounter a raccoon.. but a squirrel might be carrying something... i think my dogs are at low risk for rabies.. but even going to the vets office is risky.. what if the previous dog in there had parvo? immunizations are needed.... but safe vaccines.. and not over immunizing.. boosters might not be necessary as often.. single dose vaccines are available:animal-pa

:thumbup::D

Vaccines are crucial but there is a new movement in the dog world that is investigating the harmful effects of over immunization. For a new puppy I will always do the full booster series--after that I do a "Titer" test through my vet at 6mos old to verify that the antibodies are present and the immunity has been built. Its a blood test that measures the antibodies to different diseases instead of just annually vaccinating a dog for something he has already been vaccinated against...one the antibodies are present they do not go away. Readministering booster shots on a dog with antibodies does not make them any more immune.

My vet only recommends additional boosters for dogs that frequently travel only if the vaccines contain different strains of the virus to build immunity--apparently they vaccinate different strains of parvo/distemper based on your geographic location.

I also wanted to comment on the tone in this thread--there is so much fear. Yes, tragedies happen and I am so sorry for the loss of the puppy--it is heartbreaking.

However, it is completely unfair and unjust keep ones dogs locked inside and sheltered from the world in an effort to protect them. Unfortunately bad things happen all of the time. It is our responsibility as dog owners to do everything in our power to protect our dogs and make responsible decisions with them but not hinder their happiness and mental wellbeing in the process. I believe in fate--there is a divine plan for all of us and when it is time to go it really wont matter where you are. I will take peace in the fact that my dogs had incredible lives-they were loved, happy and lived life to the fullest. If this means I have to be extra alert on walks and be ready to scoop him up at any second then this is my commitment to him.

To me, mental health is just as important as physical health.

Being alert, responsible and using common sense are prerequisites to Yorkie ownership. JMHO

Very well said Kristena!

I completely agree...you can not forget about mental health! Our yorkies would love to go running through the woods, these guys are tougher than they look.

I am so very sorry for Rose's loss, it was tragic and very sad. We lost a puppy at 12 weeks old to anaphylactic shock following it's first vaccine (we waited because it was a smaller puppy), but we still vaccinate our puppies even if it scares us.

I am so sorry you lost a puppy due to vaccinations. Do you mind sharing with us what vaccinations you give your pups?

I can answer that question for you...Our puppies are vaccinated for:

Canine Distemper-Adenovirus Type 2-Parainfluenza-Parvovirus

We did have a necropsy done on this puppy and the conclusion was a vaccine reaction and that the puppy was a healthy 12 week old puppy...Scarey huh!...

We NEVER vaccinate with any other vaccine other than Rabies and then only after they are a year old...We vaccinate at 8-10 weeks old the first time (depending on the weight of the pup) and then every 3 weeks for a total of 3 vaccines...We then booster a year after the third vaccine...

Yes, that is very scary. That is basically what I give mine. I have never had a puppy have a reaction and I pray I never do. Thank you for sharing that information.

Breed to be hunters of mice
 

I thought I read in the yorkshire terrier history they were breed to hunt down mice in mine shafts. I agree they are delicate dogs, and break bones easily but it is in there heredity to be a hunter, and they will try to put a big dog in its place and try to assume authority over it if you don't rescue the yorkie from the situation.