What Is The Breeders Section Here For????

[Sunnie]

I guess it is my turn.. I do NOT consider myself and "experienced" breeder, although I grew up in a family that bred Scotties, so I have been around it all of my life. That being said, I, myself, have experienced whelping two litters now. As most of you know, I lost the entire litter the first time.... some may say they were just too small... some may say it was my fault... either way, it just tore me apart. I have since whelped another litter and they have grown to be beautiful 1 year olds as of now. Does that make me experienced?? I don't think so, but I DO know about all of the things that can and DO go wrong. And maybe that doesn't qualify me to post here, but if I can help someone else by letting them know my experience, then I will do so.. and I try to do it in a civil manner. In this thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-breeding.html I just went back and re-read my 1st post to the OP. I said what I said in what I thought was an informative manner, but now see it could be misunderstood. I posted later and told her about losing my babies.., and was happy to see that she actually said it made sense. In my opinion, this OP was very young and stubborn and did not have an open mind to start with. As soon as she mentioned that my post to her actually made sense I felt that it was my duty to develope some kind of friendly rapport with her and hope some of it got thru. I won't take credit for changing her mind.. but I am glad she did come back on and say that she is getting her girl spayed. If she comes back again and asks questions, I will be there to offer help and guidance if that is what she needs. Was I frustrated?? YES... Did I feel like I was talking to a wall?? YES... Did I feel like some of the posters were beating a dead horse?? YES.... Did the end justify the means?? YES... Could it have been accomplished without hard feelings? YES Does the OP have hard feelings?? YES!! Is she less likely to ask questions anymore?? YES....

Sad to say, but a little bit of tact can go a long way... we love our breed.... our hearts hurt to hear of one of our breed in pain or hurt in any way... But NO ONE learns by being beat down... remember when your mom said , "NO, you cannot go out with that boy!" It just made you want to do it even more, didn't it??

[Amber_lv]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I think the Breeders' Forum is here to share experiences and learn from each other. This thread, however, is starting to resemble the one that was closed earlier. Surely there is a problem, either real or perceived, or it wouldn't keep getting brought up. I suggested on the earlier thread that the moderator PM anyone that posts comments that would generally be considered unduly rude, sarcastic etc. and offer a gentle reminder. I realize this is a big site that keep the mods busy, but this is an ongoing thing that needs some attention. I don't expect that they would catch every post as it happened, but while moderating, if something caught their eye, maybe a PM would be in order. I think if we all felt that Admin. had an eye out to maintain a level of civility, we could all relax and use this forum as intended.

Well this site is huge and there are tons of threads and posts unfortunantly the mods and admin can't see them all.. However under the username by the online light there is a triangle with an exclamation point in it this can be used to report any post or thread found to be offensive go to the post that was offensive hit the button and tell admin about it. This way they will be sure to see it

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

I understand what you are saying, and don't think anyone object to telling the truth. What is hard to swallow is when breeders and others (not meaning you) post responses like Response #1 above. When they could just as easily post one like Response #2. Now, if after several nice tries the OP just doesn't get it, I can understand being more blunt. But in the long run, like one person here said, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just because it is the truth, doesn't mean it is good to be blunt and rude. I view it like this: If your child is in line with you at the grocery store, behind a rather large person, and your child says very loudly, "You are so fat!" Do you say, "Oh well, they're just being honest. Nothing wrong with that." I would hope not. What they say may be true, but it is rude to state it that way.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you on the rudeness... And no it shouldn't be done in a rude way, but Breeding can't always be sugar coated for everyone, I mean there are bad things that happen and if we make it sound so easy (Which by no means it isn't) then how many bitches and litters could dye due to us making it sound so easy?

I've always told my children to be 100% honest with me, don't hide or lye to me...So I only practice here what I preach to my children. I've raised my children to be respectful of ALL others...I guess I could say here what I also tell my children: "Do Unto Others As You'd Have Them Do Unto You". That goes for us adults too.

And I do think when anyone here (Including me) steps over that line of being to rude that person needs to be given a warning...1 warning not 10, then if it continues band them!!!! I mean we're all adults here aren't we? Or at least we're suppose to be adults. I only give my children 1 warning then they have to face the consequences of their actions. Lee

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by Rae Rae

Since I've been reading this thread I'll throw my in

I first don't really go to the Breeder Section, I see the posts when I click "New Posts", but these threads (the educational ones) really do interest me even though I'm not a breeder. I find breeding interesting to learn about, and learning from other peoples experiences. I won't answer any questions on what to do with a litter, or during whelping, or the actual breeding or pregnancy, but I might answer a question that I know the answer too, like if someone was asking if it's o.k to breed a 2lb yorkie...almost all of us here know the answer to that! Sometimes when your reading through, it's a natural reaction to respond, especially if you know the answer. Why people would respond though when they don't know an answer, I have no idea.

As for the "rudeness"..I know it's hard to not be rude when your passionate about something, I'm sure I'm probably guilty of it too, But like others already posted, people need to be tactful. I know if someone attacked me when I asked a question, no matter what it was about, I wouldn't take there answer as serious as I would if they were polite about it. We all love yorkies here, and even if we have to bite our tongue or constantly retype what we say before we click "Submit Reply", I think if people are more tactful then others will take them more seriously, and that can have many positive results. And I know there are those people who will get mad just because you tell them the truth and they don't want to hear it, no matter how nice about it you are, and if they refuse to listen, well we can't force them to listen to us, unfortunately. When people come in wanting to breed a dog that shouldn't be bred, that dogs life could be at risk, or their puppies lives, and it's definitely not good for the yorkie that there owner left here because people were rude to them, their missing out on a lot of good advice from some very knowledgeable breeders, advice that could save a yorkie.

How many times have I myself had to retype what I've already typed to try to tone it down? If only people here knew me in person...I have a very very big mouth and oh yes here at home it runs like wild fire But I have to say YT is teaching me to control my big ...Yes I'm learning that too here.

Thank you for your good thoughts on this..It is very hard to try to help others when they refuse it and take it as us being mean...And sometime you can't help those who just won't help themselves or accept any help no matter how it is said. They are missing out on a lot of good info. And I love to learn this is why I will not leave YT because of others. Thanks again for your thoughts. Lee

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

lee, it isn't the breeders causing the trouble but a few non breeders. That's why most of us breeders stay away. The others want the forum so we basically gave it to them and now people are not being helped by experienced breeders but by those that don't even know what it is like to stay up and feed a puppy every hour round the clock for several days and all the other little things about breeding that isn't learned in a book. Just my opinion and opinion are like buttholes, everyone has one.

I agree, Dee. When you have people that have never whelped a pup but yet has talked to 1,000 vets on the subject, has read every book out there...and they think they know more than those that have actually experienced it...you just shake your head and walk away.

Those breeders are still out there...just pm them.

[011011]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

I agree, Dee. When you have people that have never whelped a pup but yet has talked to 1,000 vets on the subject, has read every book out there...and they think they know more than those that have actually experienced it...you just shake your head and walk away.

Those breeders are still out there...just pm them.

I agree with this and sugars mom post .I think that is when some of the controversey starts when breeders post and then others come on and put in their book knowledge or hear say when they have never even whelped or raised a litter.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I suggested on the earlier thread that the moderator PM anyone that posts comments that would generally be considered unduly rude, sarcastic etc. and offer a gentle reminder. I realize this is a big site that keep the mods busy, but this is an ongoing thing that needs some attention.

If you see something of concern - all you have to do is hit the ! symbol with the triangle around it - that's the report post icon. If/when a post is reported, I view it the second I am first available to view it - and I know the others do the same.

[011011]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

If you see something of concern - all you have to do is hit the ! symbol with the triangle around it - that's the report post icon. If/when a post is reported, I view it the second I am first available to view it - and I know the others do the same.

I did not know that thanks for the info.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by 011011

I agree with this and sugars mom post .I think that is when some of the controversey starts when breeders post and then others come on and put in their book knowledge or hear say when they have never even whelped or raised a litter.

I hear you. I also have been hearing this THEME over and over and over and over.

SO, there are going to be folks here who are street smart (have whelped a litter) AND there are going to be folks here who are book smart (and may be future breeders, or are just interested):

1) We're all here at the party
2) We're all allowed to post here
3) We need to buck-up, accept it, and find a way to respect the differences instead of continuing to bicker about it

Is it frustrating? OBVIOUSLY. But, what's the right thing to focus on, where should we put our energy? Bashing here and in other places? Bickering and trying to find a solution that won't satisfy everyone, ever? Or, get down to the business of helping breeders and puppies - and working on ourselves to accept all those who are here and committed to the breed?

[Ladyhawk]

The truth is that some times the book knowledge can come in handy. Even the most seasoned breeders can learn from new informational sources. After you're at it for a while you can get stuck on old wives tales and info that was once thought to be true but has now become obsolete or even proven to be false. New research is being done all of the time and one should never stop learning. I am happy to hear from someone who is studying genetics and other avenues of health and breeding research whether they breed, are vet students or are studying for some other health related field.

[011011]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

The truth is that some times the book knowledge can come in handy. Even the most seasoned breeders can learn from new informational sources. After you're at it for a while you can get stuck on old wives tales and info that was once thought to be true but has now become obsolete or even proven to be false. New research is being done all of the time and one should never stop learning. I am happy to hear from someone who is studying genetics and other avenues of health and breeding research whether they breed, are vet students or are studying for some other health related field.

I still read all I can you can never have enough knowledge or experiance

[Tiramisu]

Originally Posted by Amber_lv

I do agree with what you have said I think a lot of them rush into breeding to make a quick buck (or so they think) and truely endanger the dogs. but not every person who wants to breed is like this. some have researched for years but feel they need some aproval or some reasurrance that what they have learned is right. But if their legs are cut off at the knee's from their first word it really hurts people's feelings all thier time and research i am sure feels like for nothing I do feel bad for some that have truely done their homework and just can't share their joy for fear of being torn apart it's very sad

**Edited to add i re-read my first post i want to clear that i am not bashing the breeders here i feel a lot of them have been very helpful

Amber, I agree with you and fit into the fear factor you mentioned!

[Tiramisu]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

See, this is where I have concerns with threads like these and discussions such as this because: WHO is going to be the end-all-be-all judge when it comes to determining if something is "a nice helpful manner" or "a petty poster"?

What's the definition of helpful? What's the definition of education? Who's going to determine if something is educational enough or not enough - or inappropriate?

Why judge? Can't we just help each other and NOT JUDGE?

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

Lee, I love your Yorkie room. May I ask if you used any kind of sealer on the tile? I have heard that the tile can soak up urine from "accidents" without it, but would appreciate your experience with it. What a great idea to run it up the wall! Perfect for those guys who just can't resist marking everything.

Thanks so much, it has help me so much to have this room, it's also an office for our Construction Company. I'm still not done with it tho, I'm going to hand paint grape vines, and flowers over the door ways and such this summer.

As far as the tile, it isn't sealed with nothing on the walls YET...I have a sealer that we got from my Hubbys' Cousins flooring store, he gave it to me and it is the wrong color (Its a really light pink was suppose to be a really light tan) this is what I put on my floor to cover the grout with & you can't really tell that it's a pink color. I'll dig the bottle out and give you the name on it later if that is okay with you.

Our boys when they was in here had their crate up against the wall and silly me didn't think about the tile staining from them hiking their legs well it did stain it on the bottom by the floor but I can paint over it with that tile paint that I have...I would just have to do all the walls and that's why I haven't done it yet. lol...Want to get my flowers painted on the walls 1st...I can do the tile paint in the winter.

I do have to say this paint for the tile is 100% great, I bleach the floors and use a small scrub brush to remove any dirt that gets on the floor in between the tiles and it scrubs right up and that paint never leaves...I love it. With Yorkies I would never ever have anything but tile on the floors and 1/2 up the walls it's the safest way to go for them and me...Save money too on floors and baseboards.

Oh and I clean any pee up or spotting up from heat cycles with Huggies Baby Wipes and it comes right up and then bleach mop once or twice or more (When our Gals are in heat) a week. I love it to death...If they poo then I clean it up with baby wipes also and there U go all clean, can't even tell where they had their accidents...For puppies it's the best room ever. Hope this helps you some...I'll get then name for you of the paint. Hope U have a great weekend. Lee

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by admin

Hello, we welcome all breeders here at YorkieTalk, experienced or new. We are happy to see YT breeders share their knowledge and experiences. If you have personal experience breeding, we suggest you mention that in your posts in the breeder forum. This may give the original poster a better understanding of you and your experience with breeding.

We strongly suggest all members ignore members that they may not get along with. All members should feel free to post their opinions on breeding or breeding topics, if you do not agree with it, you may reply or you may choose to ignore it. You may also add a member to your ignore list and thus will not see any of that member's posts. Arguing over and over about the same topic really won't help either party, it is highly unlikely that you will change the other person's opinons, and vice versa.

Sharing your experiences is what YorkieTalk is all about, and we feel all members should feel they can discuss any issues without fear of being attacked. If you see a question that may be controversial or problematic, there are positive ways to respond and there are negative ways to respond. For example, if someone asks about breeding their 3 pound Yorkie, which is of course dangerous and not recommended, a positive response would be to mention how it is dangerous for the Yorkie and how ethical breeders only breed Yorkies over 5 pounds. A negative response would be to call the poster a name and tell them they are stupid for wanting to do so. If a person wants to breed their 3 pound Yorkie,

unfortunately, there is no way for anyone on YT to stop them, however, we hope that by educating them as much as we can, that they will see why it isn't a good idea. Calling them a name will not dissuade them from breeding.

No one should be afraid of posting questions or giving their opinion on YorkieTalk. Complaining about a particular member or a group of members is also unfair. As our community has grown, it simply is not possible for everyone to agree on each and every subject. We're here to learn and share about this wonderful breed. Many actual Yorkie LIVES have been saved as a result of the Breeder forum here, as well as many Yorkie babies. This is what our community is all about, please remember that. This forum is not about you or any problems you may have with another member, it's about Yorkies, the Yorkie moms and babies which may need your help.

I agree with you and I understand what your saying. And please don't take what I have to say below in a bad way...I'm NOT trying to cause trouble or get into trouble or get banned from YT...I just want Everyone here to be able to get along and try to enjoy theirselves here on YT.

If one of us breeder here say just exactly what you said here:

"a positive response would be to mention how it is dangerous for the Yorkie and how ethical breeders only breed Yorkies over 5 pounds."

Then here someone will come and say we're giving a negative response due to saying "Ethical Breeders" when we're not at all. We're only concerned for their bitch or for their litter. So here goes the fussing. And that does put a hamper to the helping others for then they see all the fussing and that isn't good.

I just looked up the word Ethical...Here is the meaning of it:

ethi·cal (et̸h′i kəl)

adjective

1. Having to do with ethics or morality; of or conforming to moral standards

2. Conforming to the standards of conduct of a given profession or group...


So others will take us as being rude if they go look up the meaning of it and we're not.

YorkieTalk is about Yorkies and this is what it is here for but how can it be when you have those who want to do nothing but cause trouble? Can't they be given a warning or something. Can we PM you with concerns such as this? I'm just trying to learn from all this and try to clearly understand this all. Thanks for any lessons your willing to give me and others here. Hope you have a great day. Lee