Responsible Breeders

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by SandyY

Hello all, I'm very new here and this is my first post. I don't own a Yorkie but I'm a very big admirer of the breed. I have a very spoilt Schnauzer and Dachshund.
I was going to post about puppy mills and backyard breeders and some that I call in-house breeders, but Brooklynn has taken the words right out of my mouth. I would like to add it isn't just the Yorkie bred in danger but many breeds and it's time all breeders regardless if the breed work together to try to find solutions to shut them down for good. I didn't watch Oprah and haven't been to her site. I've seen enough of them to know what kind of hell those poor babies live out their short lives in.

Being new here I'm not referring to anyone in particular, so if you take offense to what I'm about to say, maybe you should ask yourself why. What I call in-house breeders are the ones who love their dogs and take excellent care of them but they're the ones Brooklynn referred to, "oh I want cute little puppies" or "I want my female to have just one litter." A breeder who truly loves a breed will only breed dogs that are as close to the standard of whatever breed they have chosen to breed and would NEVER consider breeding a pet quality dog. If you can't breed to better the breed, then you shouldn't be breeding.

Your dogs are loved and well cared for but there are MILLIONS of dogs of all breeds that are living every day of their lives in conditions that would literally make you sick.
I would hate for the government to have the control over who can and can't breed dogs but if that's what it takes to put an end to puppy mills, backyard breeders and in-house breeders all I can say is, the sooner the better.

Welcome to YT! I just state what my opinion is and how I feel I will not support puppymills or BYB's and wish they'd all go away but unfortunately they won't and we'll continue to fight this battle. I just hope along the way I can educate a few or at least get them to educate themselves whether they are breeding or buying....I can only hope!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Brooklynn]

[quote=dudley1984;1901352]

Originally Posted by SandyY

Hello all, I'm very new here and this is my first post. I don't own a Yorkie but I'm a very big admirer of the breed. I have a very spoilt Schnauzer and Dachshund.
I was going to post about puppy mills and backyard breeders and some that I ....
---------------------------

HUH? You have a pet dog now, but you want to make breeding illegal? So, where will pet dogs come from after breeding is banned? Or maybe you want just a very few carefully chosen elite to breed; then you'll be crying when you can't get a pet dog for under $10,000, or whatever high price the rare few avaiable dogs will cost. How about we concentrate first on getting the puppy mill situation under control since we know them to be truly reprehensible. IMO BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem, and most probably treat their dogs quite well. They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us. Some people posting here are way too radical...get a life.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but you seem to have a problem with anyone that doesn't agree with you...you seem to be barking louder than anyone so far....
Our breed is #2 in popularity and that's because puppymills and BYB's can supply the demand and MUCH LESS are bought from show breeders. This thread is about "RESPONSIBLE" breeding and that's whether you show or not PERIOD!
If I'm radical to you then so be it but it won't change my opinions or show/breeding practices just because you disagree with the way I do things. Many breeders disagree with me but it doesn't mean I'm going to sway away from my convictions and beliefs and practices. I have a life thank you and without that life I wouldn't be where I am today! My life is filled with the love and support of my husband, my family, my child, my grandchild and my yorkies and I work and have a very full life. I just happen to be passionate about the yorkie breed and the way it's heading is not pretty!
Again, I will not apologize for my show/breeding practices, my "showy type" attitude or my beliefs

Donna Bird
Brookynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Rae Rae]

[quote=dudley1984;1901352]

Originally Posted by SandyY

Hello all, I'm very new here and this is my first post. I don't own a Yorkie but I'm a very big admirer of the breed. I have a very spoilt Schnauzer and Dachshund.
I was going to post about puppy mills and backyard breeders and some that I ....
---------------------------

HUH? You have a pet dog now, but you want to make breeding illegal? So, where will pet dogs come from after breeding is banned? Or maybe you want just a very few carefully chosen elite to breed; then you'll be crying when you can't get a pet dog for under $10,000, or whatever high price the rare few avaiable dogs will cost. How about we concentrate first on getting the puppy mill situation under control since we know them to be truly reprehensible. IMO BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem, and most probably treat their dogs quite well. They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us. Some people posting here are way too radical...get a life.

I don't think she's saying that breeding should be illegal, but the government should have more standards so irresponsible breeders can no longer breed. Also, it usually is these BYB's and puppy mills charging $10,000 for a puppy. IMO, a reputable breeder rwouldn't charge $10,000 for a puppy. If your not going to be selective about your breeding stock, then you shouldn't breed. Wouldn't that be one of the first steps in starting to breed (after doing all the research), to find a pair that represents the breed to the best? It's dogs being bred that aren't being selected right, who are passing down genetic illnesses that is contributing to the problem, just as well as puppy mills. Even if they do treat their dogs like royalty, the way a dog is treated doesn't determine if it's breeding quality.

[Brooklynn]

[quote=Rae Rae;1901444]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

I don't think she's saying that breeding should be illegal, but the government should have more standards so irresponsible breeders can no longer breed. Also, it usually is these BYB's and puppy mills charging $10,000 for a puppy. IMO, a reputable breeder rwouldn't charge $10,000 for a puppy. If your not going to be selective about your breeding stock, then you shouldn't breed. Wouldn't that be one of the first steps in starting to breed (after doing all the research), to find a pair that represents the breed to the best? It's dogs being bred that aren't being selected right, who are passing down genetic illnesses that is contributing to the problem, just as well as puppy mills. Even if they do treat their dogs like royalty, the way a dog is treated doesn't determine if it's breeding quality.

You know the old saying......the guilty dog always barks first and I'll add the loudest Sorry but I'm calling it as I see it

[kathylynch]

[quote=Rae Rae;1901444]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

I don't think she's saying that breeding should be illegal, but the government should have more standards so irresponsible breeders can no longer breed. Also, it usually is these BYB's and puppy mills charging $10,000 for a puppy. IMO, a reputable breeder rwouldn't charge $10,000 for a puppy. If your not going to be selective about your breeding stock, then you shouldn't breed. Wouldn't that be one of the first steps in starting to breed (after doing all the research), to find a pair that represents the breed to the best? It's dogs being bred that aren't being selected right, who are passing down genetic illnesses that is contributing to the problem, just as well as puppy mills. Even if they do treat their dogs like royalty, the way a dog is treated doesn't determine if it's breeding quality.

Amen to that!!
Shout this message out.
don't give up.
kathy

[kathylynch]

[quote=Brooklynn;1901425]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but you seem to have a problem with anyone that doesn't agree with you...you seem to be barking louder than anyone so far....
Our breed is #2 in popularity and that's because puppymills and BYB's can supply the demand and MUCH LESS are bought from show breeders. This thread is about "RESPONSIBLE" breeding and that's whether you show or not PERIOD!
If I'm radical to you then so be it but it won't change my opinions or show/breeding practices just because you disagree with the way I do things. Many breeders disagree with me but it doesn't mean I'm going to sway away from my convictions and beliefs and practices. I have a life thank you and without that life I wouldn't be where I am today! My life is filled with the love and support of my husband, my family, my child, my grandchild and my yorkies and I work and have a very full life. I just happen to be passionate about the yorkie breed and the way it's heading is not pretty!
Again, I will not apologize for my show/breeding practices, my "showy type" attitude or my beliefs

Donna Bird
Brookynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Donna,
Don't ever give up we need people like you on yorkie talk!!! You say what you say only because YOU TRULEY CARE ABOUT THE YORKSHIRE TERRIER
and I know if you were into any other breed you would be the same way for them.
so AMEN to your post also!!!
kathy

[Brooklynn]

[quote=kathylynch;1901472]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Donna,
Don't ever give up we need people like you on yorkie talk!!! You say what you say only because YOU TRULEY CARE ABOUT THE YORKSHIRE TERRIER
and I know if you were into any other breed you would be the same way for them.
so AMEN to your post also!!!
kathy

Thank you Kathy! I'm actually passionate about breeding for the right reasons whether it be in yorkies or another breed it should be done correctly and with producing healthy pups and having healthy adults being the #1 priority! That means being educated in what you are doing....

[Brooklynn]

[quote=tegamom1;1900550]

Originally Posted by SandyY

Hello all, I'm very new here and this is my first post. I don't own a Yorkie but I'm a very big admirer of the breed. I have a very spoilt Schnauzer and Dachshund.
I was going to post about puppy mills and backyard breeders and some that I call in-house breeders, but Brooklynn has taken the words right out of my mouth. I would like to add it isn't just the Yorkie bred in danger but many breeds and it's time all breeders regardless if the breed work together to try to find solutions to shut them down for good. I didn't watch Oprah and haven't been to her site. I've seen enough of them to know what kind of hell those poor babies live out their short lives in.

Being new here I'm not referring to anyone in particular, so if you take offense to what I'm about to say, maybe you should ask yourself why. What I call in-house breeders are the ones who love their dogs and take excellent care of them but they're the ones Brooklynn referred to, "oh I want cute little puppies" or "I want my female to have just one litter." A breeder who truly loves a breed will only breed dogs that are as close to the standard of whatever breed they have chosen to breed and would NEVER consider breeding a pet quality dog. If you can't breed to better the breed, then you shouldn't be breeding.

Your dogs are loved and well cared for but there are MILLIONS of dogs of all breeds that are living every day of their lives in conditions that would literally make you sick.
I would hate for the government to have the control over who can and can't breed dogs but if that's what it takes to put an end to puppy mills, backyard breeders and in-house breeders all I can say is, the sooner the better.[/QUOTE

Excellent first post! I too would like to welcome you. It's so nice to see new people come on truly interested in what is happening to Yorkies as well as other breeds and not here to sell puppies.
Donna, Kathy, I stand by you 100%! As I was reminded by our mutual friend just today, I need to quit avoiding this section and continue to stand up for what's right. If we're called harsh or rude, so be it! It's honest, and if we don't speak, who will. If someone wants to breed for profit, let them become surrogate mothers and breed themselves.

I will always stand up for this breed and if it's being done incorrectly and my passion will continue I guess I'll just continue to be called harsh and rude and I can't change that but it will not sway me from my strong convictions

[BakersDozen]

HUH? You have a pet dog now, but you want to make breeding illegal? So, where will pet dogs come from after breeding is banned? Or maybe you want just a very few carefully chosen elite to breed; then you'll be crying when you can't get a pet dog for under $10,000, or whatever high price the rare few avaiable dogs will cost. How about we concentrate first on getting the puppy mill situation under control since we know them to be truly reprehensible. IMO BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem, and most probably treat their dogs quite well. They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us. Some people posting here are way too radical...get a life.[/QUOTE]


Perhaps I misunderstood, but I don't think anyone on this thread was advocating making breeding altogether illegal......That being said, I do agree with the point made here that BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem. Notice the phrase is "relatively small"--acknowledging they are a problem, but not the biggest problem. Many, many "back-yard breeders" care deeply for their dogs and would never mistreat them as the true puppymills do. While they often do not breed completely to standard, many fit the description of a "reputable" breeder in every other way. Again, please note I said "many", not "all". I do realize some do not; however, again they are a relatively small part of the problem.

Regardless of our views about breeding to standard, I don't think anyone would disagree that it is much worse to keep a dog in deplorable conditions than to breed a healthy off-standard dog. Looking at the big picture, it is a completely different thing to breed a healthy silver Yorkie in good conditions, than to breed a female every heat until she dies with no vet care, no human interaction, in cruel surroundings. And in the big picture, it does make more sense to spend your time fighting those breeding in deplorable conditions first....and then tackle those not breeding to standard.

This is the interpretation I made of Dudley's post, anyway. Apology in advance if I interpreted it wrong.

[SandyY]

HUH? You have a pet dog now, but you want to make breeding illegal? So, where will pet dogs come from after breeding is banned? Or maybe you want just a very few carefully chosen elite to breed; then you'll be crying when you can't get a pet dog for under $10,000, or whatever high price the rare few avaiable dogs will cost. How about we concentrate first on getting the puppy mill situation under control since we know them to be truly reprehensible. IMO BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem, and most probably treat their dogs quite well. They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us. Some people posting here are way too radical...get a life.[/QUOTE]



Well, Dudley, I seemed to have offended you, I'm assuming you must be one of the in-house breeders I was referring to. The ones who love and take excellent care of their dogs but want to raise a few pups. So they breed their pets who produce more pets and on the cycle goes.
The point I'm trying to make is if your going to breed, you should have the best representatives of whatever breed your breeding, not pet quality. No, I don't want to make breeding illegal just make the people who are breeding more responsible as to what they breed.
You ask where will I get a pet? Just go to your local shelter there's plenty that you can pick from, in fact they're full. Can you guess where most of those dogs come from? Most come from those that you say, "They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us." Some end up with a lot of health issues that the people who bought them can't afford to treat, so they take them to shelters or just dump them somewhere. Yes Dudley, I'm sorry to say, that really happens in the real world but some had rather keep their head buried in the sand, hoping it'll just go away.
I can see you didn't and may never understand, the only way is for the breeders of all breeds to work together to try to put a stop to what's happening to these animals and if you're a breeder Dudley, that includes you.
Sandy

[Susan123]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

After reading the written story on puppymills on the Oprah Winfrey website because I missed the show...I so hope it makes an impact. While reading I was crying because it makes me think back to when I bought Jodi my first yorkie about 10 years ago (uneducated) and not knowing then that buying from BYB's and petstores would cause so much heartache just makes my passion for this breed even stronger! I lost my Jodi due to health issues that were genetic and she was just 7 years old and it broke my heart all over again.
So, if I in the future reply to this forum and come off with strong convictions or what some may call rude I will not apologize because there are so many people out there and on this forum just breeding for the "oh I want cute little puppies" or "I want my female to have just one litter" or we had an accident ( I know accidents do happen) but spaying and neutering at a young age will take care of those accidents so don't expect me to come off with a little "MISS NICE" attitude! Those that don't health test and do not do what is all necessary with the responsiblity of breeding correctly in my opinion is not breeding the right way!
We have too many yorkies and other breeds being bred UNHEALTHY and it's our responsiblity to expose those that are doing it the WRONG WAY! That is why our breed is #2 because some see "PROFIT" and we need to stop the supply and demand!!!!!!!
Please educate yourself before breeding or buying! Ask the right questions, see the red flags and do NOT support BYB's or PUPPYMILLS! Do your homework!!!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Great reminder, I believe this needs to be talk about often here at Breeder Talk.

[kathylynch]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

HUH? You have a pet dog now, but you want to make breeding illegal? So, where will pet dogs come from after breeding is banned? Or maybe you want just a very few carefully chosen elite to breed; then you'll be crying when you can't get a pet dog for under $10,000, or whatever high price the rare few avaiable dogs will cost. How about we concentrate first on getting the puppy mill situation under control since we know them to be truly reprehensible. IMO BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem, and most probably treat their dogs quite well. They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us. Some people posting here are way too radical...get a life.

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I don't think anyone on this thread was advocating making breeding altogether illegal......That being said, I do agree with the point made here that BYBs are a relatively small part of the problem. Notice the phrase is "relatively small"--acknowledging they are a problem, but not the biggest problem. Many, many "back-yard breeders" care deeply for their dogs and would never mistreat them as the true puppymills do. While they often do not breed completely to standard, many fit the description of a "reputable" breeder in every other way. Again, please note I said "many", not "all". I do realize some do not; however, again they are a relatively small part of the problem.

Regardless of our views about breeding to standard, I don't think anyone would disagree that it is much worse to keep a dog in deplorable conditions than to breed a healthy off-standard dog. Looking at the big picture, it is a completely different thing to breed a healthy silver Yorkie in good conditions, than to breed a female every heat until she dies with no vet care, no human interaction, in cruel surroundings. And in the big picture, it does make more sense to spend your time fighting those breeding in deplorable conditions first....and then tackle those not breeding to standard.

This is the interpretation I made of Dudley's post, anyway. Apology in advance if I interpreted it wrong. [/QUOTE]

[BakersDozen]

Well, Dudley, I seemed to have offended you, I'm assuming you must be one of the in-house breeders I was referring to. The ones who love and take excellent care of their dogs but want to raise a few pups. So they breed their pets who produce more pets and on the cycle goes.
The point I'm trying to make is if your going to breed, you should have the best representatives of whatever breed your breeding, not pet quality. No, I don't want to make breeding illegal just make the people who are breeding more responsible as to what they breed.
You ask where will I get a pet? Just go to your local shelter there's plenty that you can pick from, in fact they're full. Can you guess where most of those dogs come from? Most come from those that you say, "They're just not as selective about their breeding stock as some of us." Some end up with a lot of health issues that the people who bought them can't afford to treat, so they take them to shelters or just dump them somewhere. Yes Dudley, I'm sorry to say, that really happens in the real world but some had rather keep their head buried in the sand, hoping it'll just go away.
I can see you didn't and may never understand, the only way is for the breeders of all breeds to work together to try to put a stop to what's happening to these animals and if you're a breeder Dudley, that includes you.
Sandy[/QUOTE]


While I agree with some of your statement, I really don't agree that most of the dogs in shelters come from the type of BYB that Dudley was talking about. Not a huge number of people would discard their dog because it is the "wrong" color. As has been the case in other threads, I think maybe we all have a different definition about what a BYB is. There is a big difference between a BYB who breeds unhealthy dogs and one who breeds off-standard dogs.

This thread started out referring to breeders who breed unhealthy dogs....breeding to standard is another subject entirely.

Regardless, each is entitled to his or her own opinion.

[BakersDozen]

Why are the quotes not working right on this page??? I don't think it's just me, because above I see someone quoted me, but my username appears on the quote that I originally quoted.

[JaLaYorkieGirl]

Donna when I read you last post about your convictions and beliefs, I was sitting here cheering you on, just had to find some pompoms! You are so good at putting your thoughts into words and that is a true gift. I just wish more people would take it to heart and see it for what it is...excellent and sound advice!!! Thank you!