What does betterment of the breed mean to you?

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by linda44

Its not just health. You cant get a male one place and a female another and just because theyre pretty and healthy have the perfect yorkie.

I dont know alot about line breeding, but Im learning, and I know unless you know everything about both your dogs for about 8 generations, you could be in trouble.

Come on, dog lovers, all dogs are adorable in their mommies eyes. Perfect or not, but if people dont take breeding seriously, what happens in say 20 or 30 years from now maybe when our great grandkids want a yorkie. Will they look like yorkies then? Not if breeders are not serious. Good breeders breed for health, coat, posture, size, straight backs, correct size of head, nose, eyes, ears, ears that stand etc etc. If you have two that throw something not standard then they shouldnt be bred again.

I know this is going to upset lots of people, but if we want a yorkie to look like a yorkie years from now, we need to be consious of what the breed is and stands for.

I love my baby more than anything in the world and think she's adorable and a wonderful pet. But I know she is a poor representation of the breed. If we truly love the Yorkshire Terrier breed then we would want for the breed we love to continue to look like a Yorkshire Terrier. Otherwise, why not just buy any little dog to love? If we truly want to preserve the Yorkshire Terrier as a breed, we've got to breed to the standard. It's not just about looks, it's about attitude, proper structure, movement, etc...it's what makes the Yorkshire Terrier a Yorkshire Terrier.

[bjh]

Here is a link to a few early pictures and article about the history of the breed:
http://www.yorkiepassion.com/Yorkiehistory.htm

Here are some pictures of some very early Yorkies and their ancestors.
http://www.yorkiepassion.com/Yorkiehistory.htm

I think we have come a long way and it is through the dedication and hard work of those committed to the betterment of the breed.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by bjh

Here is a link to a few early pictures and article about the history of the breed:
http://www.yorkiepassion.com/Yorkiehistory.htm

Here are some pictures of some very early Yorkies and their ancestors.
http://www.yorkiepassion.com/Yorkiehistory.htm

I think we have come a long way and it is through the dedication and hard work of those committed to the betterment of the breed.

Okay, I got that second link wrong, here is the right link with some pictures, the text is hard to read.
http://www.irresistibleyorkies.com/Yorkiehistory1.htm

[For My Coby]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I love my baby more than anything in the world and think she's adorable and a wonderful pet. But I know she is a poor representation of the breed. If we truly love the Yorkshire Terrier breed then we would want for the breed we love to continue to look like a Yorkshire Terrier. Otherwise, why not just buy any little dog to love? If we truly want to preserve the Yorkshire Terrier as a breed, we've got to breed to the standard. It's not just about looks, it's about attitude, proper structure, movement, etc...it's what makes the Yorkshire Terrier a Yorkshire Terrier.

I am learning so much! To be honest, I've sort of been "stuck" on the physical attributes that many of your refer to so often. In referring to "betterment of the breed", some of you have referred to all dogs looking alike in the future if we aren't careful. I wasn't really getting that. I didn't see how by breeding two less-than-show-quality yorkies for a few generations, we'd suddenly have poodles and yorkies that look the same.

But with the history lesson (I'd still love to see some comparable pictures of original yorkies vs today's yorkies), it's beginning to become more clear regarding the physical traits as well as the health issues. While the phrases, "betterment of the breed" and "improving the breed" might still turn some people off, they are most likely common phrases in the dog-world. But with the physical attributes, are we really talking about "preserving the breed" (a phrase you used) as much as "improving"? Have the yorkie powers that be (I think you explained it as the "parent club") already perfected the Yorkie or are they still creating it? I think that if I think of it as "preserving the breed standards" and "improving the health", the picture in the mind of good breeders is becoming clearer to me.

Thanks so much!

[For My Coby]

Originally Posted by bjh

Okay, I got that second link wrong, here is the right link with some pictures, the text is hard to read.
http://www.irresistibleyorkies.com/Yorkiehistory1.htm

Oooh, just saw you posted these links. Thanks so much. I'm gonna take a look!

[For My Coby]

Originally Posted by bjh

Okay, I got that second link wrong, here is the right link with some pictures, the text is hard to read.
http://www.irresistibleyorkies.com/Yorkiehistory1.htm

That was really interesting. I knew a lot (well, "a lot" might be a bit of an overstatement - I should probably say "a bit") about the history of Yorkies, but I really hadn't seen a lot of pictures. As I look backwards, it is something that helps me understand the passion a bit better.

Thanks, you guys, for educating me a bit further today!!

[love_me_cody]

Thanks everyone for your opinions!!!

[love_me_cody]

Originally Posted by bjh

The Yorkshire Terrier was first introduced as a 'ratter' or hunting dog. Through selective breeding it evolved into a better looking companion dog and then through more selective breeding the Yorkie was developed into a 'glamor' dog. There have always been not so glamorous Yorkies around. Just look back at some of the old Yorkie books and you will see how the Yorkie has evolved. It is the show breeders that have worked hard to make the Yorkie the glamorous breed it is today. Those that were not into showing continued to just breed companion dogs that were not as glamorous and that is why there are so many different looks. Take the Beagle for example, they were originally breed for hunting and then some breeders decided to make them pretty, more balance, softer face, etc. Since I bred Beagles at one time I can tell immediately looking at a Beagle if it is from show stock or hunting stock. Just because a hunting stock Beagle is not as pretty as a show quality Beagle, it still has its purpose. The key to the betterment of the breed, whether it is to breed companion dogs or show dogs, is to breed healthy and sound dogs that conform as closely as possible to the YTCA standard. The Yorkie attitude and soundness that was originally bred into these little dogs is being bred out. To me, first and foremost, for the betterment of the breed we should all be breeding sound healthy dogs with proper attitude. We should try to breed within the standard and if we all do that then we will be breeding for the betterment of the breed.

Thanks for this, I think that was what she was trying to say. I missed a lot of what she was saying because I can't remember all of it. But I think she was saying that at the end, it doesn't matter that you show. Follow the breed standard and do your research and everything else wouldn't matter (everything else, meaning others opinions). Thanks everyone, again!

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by For My Coby

I am learning so much! To be honest, I've sort of been "stuck" on the physical attributes that many of your refer to so often. In referring to "betterment of the breed", some of you have referred to all dogs looking alike in the future if we aren't careful. I wasn't really getting that. I didn't see how by breeding two less-than-show-quality yorkies for a few generations, we'd suddenly have poodles and yorkies that look the same.

It would take a lot more than a few generations for all breeds to start looking the same. However, there are some breeds that are so closely related in appearance that minor things such as erect ears, tail or no tail, etc. is what sets them apart. I read an article a 2006 issue of the Yorkshire Terrier magazine that discussed why we have a standard and how it sets one breed apart from other breed and it discussed defining traits in distinguishing closely related breeds. But for instance...say we continue to breed yorkies with large ears instead of of the smaller ears...eventually yorkies will have the ears of a papillon. Say we start breeding extreme "baby doll" faces with the apple-heads - yorkie heads would start to resemble a chihuahua. Say we start breeding an oversized yorkie with a longer terrier muzzles - they more so resemble a silky terrier. Say we breed incorrect coats such as a soft curly coat..eventually the yorkie will look like it has poodle in it. Do you see what I'm saying now? If we start to breed for things that are off-standard, we start getting a dog that resembles another breed instead of the breed it is supposed to be. We can't preserve this breed and continue it if we aren't breeding for the traits that make it unique

[For My Coby]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

It would take a lot more than a few generations for all breeds to start looking the same. However, there are some breeds that are so closely related in appearance that minor things such as erect ears, tail or no tail, etc. is what sets them apart. I read an article a 2006 issue of the Yorkshire Terrier magazine that discussed why we have a standard and how it sets one breed apart from other breed and it discussed defining traits in distinguishing closely related breeds. But for instance...say we continue to breed yorkies with large ears instead of of the smaller ears...eventually yorkies will have the ears of a papillon. Say we start breeding extreme "baby doll" faces with the apple-heads - yorkie heads would start to resemble a chihuahua. Say we start breeding an oversized yorkie with a longer terrier muzzles - they more so resemble a silky terrier. Say we breed incorrect coats such as a soft curly coat..eventually the yorkie will look like it has poodle in it. Do you see what I'm saying now? If we start to breed for things that are off-standard, we start getting a dog that resembles another breed instead of the breed it is supposed to be. We can't preserve this breed and continue it if we aren't breeding for the traits that make it unique

Yes, within this thread, this has been more clearly defined for many of us than the bits and pieces we get in the "passionate" threads. While I think of myself as always open-minded and will never be a breeder, this topic often creates havoc. So I'm always interested in learning more about what makes people so passionate. I have a MUCH better picture of the goals (behind the passion) now!

..... and as a side note, that's one of the things that is so hard about public forums. So much of the "education" is done when things are escalated or only bits and pieces are presented at any one time. I think this thread did a much fuller job of educating. Thanks!!

[SwimMom]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I love my baby more than anything in the world and think she's adorable and a wonderful pet. But I know she is a poor representation of the breed. If we truly love the Yorkshire Terrier breed then we would want for the breed we love to continue to look like a Yorkshire Terrier. Otherwise, why not just buy any little dog to love? If we truly want to preserve the Yorkshire Terrier as a breed, we've got to breed to the standard. It's not just about looks, it's about attitude, proper structure, movement, etc...it's what makes the Yorkshire Terrier a Yorkshire Terrier.

As always Michele, you speak with both your head and your heart. It is a combination that I admire in those that are passionately seeking to do the right thing!

[scoobiedooiscoo]

just a comment. wow 2 pages and everyone was nice way to go

[linda44]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

It would take a lot more than a few generations for all breeds to start looking the same. However, there are some breeds that are so closely related in appearance that minor things such as erect ears, tail or no tail, etc. is what sets them apart. I read an article a 2006 issue of the Yorkshire Terrier magazine that discussed why we have a standard and how it sets one breed apart from other breed and it discussed defining traits in distinguishing closely related breeds. But for instance...say we continue to breed yorkies with large ears instead of of the smaller ears...eventually yorkies will have the ears of a papillon. Say we start breeding extreme "baby doll" faces with the apple-heads - yorkie heads would start to resemble a chihuahua. Say we start breeding an oversized yorkie with a longer terrier muzzles - they more so resemble a silky terrier. Say we breed incorrect coats such as a soft curly coat..eventually the yorkie will look like it has poodle in it. Do you see what I'm saying now? If we start to breed for things that are off-standard, we start getting a dog that resembles another breed instead of the breed it is supposed to be. We can't preserve this breed and continue it if we aren't breeding for the traits that make it unique

Totally!!! or oversize/undersize dogs, poor bites, not to mention any kind of health problem regardless of how small or minor. I honestly think thats why there are soooooo many yorkies out there that dont even come close to the standard. And they are a breed that when buying as a puppy, and especially if you dont know alot about yorkies that it is very difficult to know what they will look like as an adult

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies

All of us love our girls and boys really regardless of their "looks." I think uniqueness is important and certainly welcomed to an extent in our kennel….. I defiantly can’t grow a show coat or wrap it like a professional, but I can sit behind a microscope and look at slides all day, run fecal samples until I think I am one, and study genetics to the point that now my kids call me a NERD. So, to me.... Betterment is an internal issue…..that means slowing down the crippling effect of PSS, detecting the gene abnormality, and removing carriers from the breed, finding out why digestive abnormalities and other odd abnormalities are cropping up that did not exist prior to the last 10 years, working toward producing dogs much less susceptible to Hypoglycemia, eye disease, and developing stronger teeth sets to reduce decay..... For me betterment has always been a biological and physiological issue.... Every year the gap between "show quality" and "pet quality" widens. For some reason, "pet quality" some how now means "less than." In the pet quality world, the vast majority I am seeing are very small, typically easily frightened, psychologically and physically unsound puppies. Rarely anything that resembles the health and stature of their show quality "cousins" as I call them since the gap is soooo wide. The gap between show quality and pet quality in both health and appearance needs to shrink and this can only be done by a conscientious breeding programs left up to breeders who are prepared and willing to put a great deal of time, effort and money into this.... I constantly have buyers who refuse to purchase puppies from me because we contractually require puppies to be altered by 6 months of age. Breeding really shouldn't be a "hobby." I work everyday in the hope that we will eventually reach a place where the everyday pet owner can have a nicely sized, nicely conformed very healthy puppy. Every single time a dog full of genetic faults is breed and it’s offspring are sent out into the breeding pool, I take 10 steps backward…think for a moment how far behind I am….that will be the downfall of our breed. Yorkies are increasingly becoming an unhealthy, highly needy breed, far removed from its ancestry. That just isn’t what buyers are looking for and thus their popularity will decline, and so on.... Of course, the economy is going to help our case greatly by reducing the lucrative earning of selling dogs…Our breed is being crushed by folks "just breeding" with no clear breeding objectives beyond personal satisfaction, financially or emotionally, never really considering external betterment or internal betterment as a real part of their plan....

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!

[tanksmom]

I am not and never will be a breeder.
I live in Texas and thanks to this thread I wil go to SET to look for my next baby if and when I want another. Anyone I know who asks will be sent there. Her response was just perfect and it made me look at her site to see her words in puppies. Thank you for helping Yorkies be the great dogs I love.