FOR YORKIEKIST......Of course they're not ALL that bad, but between the stories of abuse, or close to it, and the arrogance and rudeness at ringside, I'm only staying peripherally involved in showing. Anyway, while I've been asking around about a trustworthy handler my dog has just gotten older and now past his prime. Speaking of arrogance, what makes you think my vet didn't report any abuse he saw? I'm not clear on whether he witnessed abuse, or was the official to whom the abuse was reported, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion he didn't report something he should have. This is the exact thing that makes me break out in hives at the thought of having to interact with you showy types.

You showy Types?!! Yorkiekist was just wondering why abuse wasn't reported if witnessed since you didn't inform us as to how it was handled. I didn't find her post to be arrogant at all. If you are looking for an enemy around every corner than it's probably best that you don't enter the show ring. You can find great friendly, helpful people there and you can find people who are guarded and won't put up with any bull. I enjoy showing and have made great friends. I find it to be extremely educating and challenging. I am the type that if I'm going to do something, I reach for excellence. I used to be a national competitior and educator when I first started doing nails. It was a way to learn from the very best and perfect my skills while meeting the top nail techs in the industry and getting my name out there. I didn't want to make mediocre nails, I wanted to make works of art. I worked hard and placed within the top 25 nail techs in the country on the national circuit. Showing dogs is along the same vein for me, I can learn from the veterns of the yorkie world, have access to excellent stock, and get my name out there. I'm proud to be a showy type I guess because I have found them to be passionate, driven individuals who love these dogs and have commited their lives to this persuit. For me it's a good team to be on!

Oh poor thing... you sound like one of those that can't take the heat. In any competitive sport you're going to find arrogance, ever go to a little league game?

You best stay home because us "showy types" might make you itch. lol. :p

Wow, this thread has twisted and turned....:) I didn't get the impression that the poster was against competition....my understanding was they don't want to be a part of the rest of it. Since they didn't mention the competition (which is to be expected at any competitive sport) but instead mentioned the unethical treatment of animals and arrogant attitude of some people, I assumed this is why they chose not to be a part of it. I can't say as I blame them. I am not a part of the show world, so I really can't comment with any authority on how prevelent it is. However, there have been so many people (not just on here) comment about the undesireable attitudes, etc. that there must be at least some truth to it. Of course, I know it can't be that everyone is like that, but I can certainly understand how someone would choose not to be a part of that. No need to ridicule them for it, as it is a personal decision, and they have a right to express why they feel that way.

On the flip side, I think sometimes it is easy to forget that there are great show people out there, so by the same principle, those that do choose to show in an ethical and kind way should be treated with respect as well.

How about a truce? :D

I personally like the "showey types" myself :)

:sidesplt: :sidesplt: :sidesplt:

thanks!:)

It sounds like your first experiences at showing were very unpleasant and now you have a big case of sour grapes. It seems that you perceive that everyone and everything involved in showing are rude, arrogant, cruel, uncaring and abusive. And you are basing this all on rumors and one vet experience. Since you seem to feel that way, why are you "staying peripherally involved" in showing? Dog showing is a competitive sport, not a bed of roses. And as with all competitive sports, you have your jerks, your gossips, your wanna bees and you plain, all-around nice people.
Thanks for calling me a "showy type"!!:) I know it was ment to be a put-down, but I think its kind of catchy!!:)

LOL..I love it!

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

to lace, blitz, yorkiekist

this message is going in small pieces because I keep ketting logged out....

this has unfortunately gone form a discussion about breeding for profit to the ills of showing

Those of you who show and do so honestly and without malice, you have my sincere respect and admiration. However, you know there is a dark side to the show world that is hard for the rest of us to take.

My last time in the ring a very famous exhibitor suggested I might have more success if I dyed my dog's hair. Somehow I don't think she said this to be mean, but it killed my enthusiasm by making me wonder just what that might have to do with the "improveing the breed" I kept hearing about.

Anyway, I now breed show quality dogs to produce fabulous pets. After several years of losing tons of money at it, I stand to make a few dollars this year and don't like you show people trying to make me feel there is something wrong in this.

No matter what you do in life there are dark sides and you cannot let the bad things in life get you down or keep you from doing the right thing because if you do the bad guys win.

Dark, or not....
 

Though not aimed at improving the breed, per se, my breeding is not harming it. All I ask if for you to consider the possibility that good professional breeding, for profit, can ultimately improve the breed by cutting into the puppy mill market, which is truly deplorable and detrimental. You want respect for what you do, and I want the same.

I am not one to condemn responsible breeders that do not show. When I started raising Yorkies I was all to familiar with the show scene and I know how political and cut throat it can get but I still enjoy going to shows. I have met some very nice people there and they have been very helpful to me. To me, honestly, I think showing is more of a ego trip for many of them but in a way I cannot blame them, especially if they are showing and finishing their own home bred dogs. No matter what you do in life you should strive to be the best at what you do. Anyone can go buy a show dog, hire a handler and make it a champion but to me the real satisfaction would come from breeding and finishing my own dog. It may never happen but that is my goal. Unless you are breeding perfect dogs (which I don't think exists) then you should always strive for perfection even if it seems unattainable.

you know, I only have one little dog that I have had in a couple of shows. That has only been recently so you cannot say I am a 'showy type". But, I will tell you one thing I have learned. There are people on here that will always call those that aren't into showing BYB. I have stopped even trying to defend myself. if they look at my dogs, my program and all the things I do and still call me a BYB because I don't show, then they are never going to be convinced otherwise so you are just beating your head into the wall.

Thank you BJH and Sugar's Mom...
 

It gets awfully lonely on this board sometimes...I am involved in a club and peripherally on the show scene, but the part of this work I love is keeping house for my Yorkies and their babies. I have multiple college degrees and a professional job, but the best part of any day for me is to hug a puppy after I've had to wash its messy bum-bum.

Dudley, you're right somehow this got thread got off topic from betterment of the breed so I'm going to point out that getting your dogs out there and putting titles on them is how you know for sure that your dogs are worthy of to be in your breeding program. Otherwise, it's too easy to breed dogs with ears that are incorrect, soft toplines and bad coat texture. You can say it is show quality all you want but until you get your dog out there competing and winning, you're proably forgiving faults in your breeding stock that you probably would not forgiving if you were putting in the show ring. You are not going to win with a dog that isn't good. So that's why those that don't show are often lumped in with bybs. It's the assumed quality of your dogs.

I'd like to add that I love the dog show world even with all its quirkiness. An AKC championship is not easy to come by and you prove a lot about your dog and yourself by being able to get in the ring and compete with the big boys and with politics being what they are, you really do need to have a good dog to win. But you will win if you have a good dog, maybe not all the time but nobody wins all the time. It is not for the meek or thin skinned but don't knock it because it is a real accomplishment to successfully show your dog.

Breeding quality and show quality should be one and the same because like begets like and I sure didn't make that up. If you breed dogs that are not show quality, you are not going to produce outstanding dogs and you are not going to "better the breed" or even your own breeding program. Showing your dogs keeps you honest in your breeding program. It seems that you really want the recognition of the show breeders otherwise why would you care if you are referred to as bybs?

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Actually, the title of this thread is 'Breeding For Profit' and the OP mentioned nothing about showing. She just wondered what is wrong with making a profit if you breed responsibly.

I think that one year I made about $500.00 in "profit". But if I had to "pay myself" for all of the work and time I put into this litter, I would be in the hole by thousands of dollars. And that "huge" profit when right back into the dogs. There is soooooooo much to consider, plan and do everyday. If breeding is done correctly(health screening, vet appointments, driving costs, food, toys, crates, grooming equipment, and zillions of more things to consider) you will NEVER make a dime. On the other hand, if breeding is done the "puppy mill" or BYB'r way, lots of money can be made. So, the "profit" depends on you. Do you care about the dogs completely or do you not care and cut out everything that is un-necessary just to have a goal of making a profit.

OOPS. I strayed into the betterment of the breed topic. So sorry.

That's okay, you input is always welcome.

Well, last Saturday at a dog show and all day today at a dog show (and will be there again tomorrow) and I love it...love the show world. Yes, there are some things that could be considered negative, but that is any competitive activity you participate in. Anyway, I just love it!

Wonderful!
 

I didn't know you were an exhibitor or breeder, MyFairLacy. How did your dog do at the show?

[QUOTE=blitz;1883938]Dudley, you're right somehow this got thread got off topic from betterment of the breed so I'm going to point out that getting your dogs out there and putting titles on them is how you know for sure that your dogs are worthy of to be in your breeding program....
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Blitz, I know this to be untrue. I have multiple reasons for not showing, among them that I have personally seen inferior dogs win. I believe it was in this thread I told about how I was advised by a big (real big, famous) exhibitor to dye my dog's hair. With the limited time I have available I can't afford to waste it playing those kinds of games. It has to be a very insecure exhibitor who can look at my pedigrees and call me a BYB.

[quote=dudley1984;1885153]Maybe she felt that you had an excellent dog stucturally but that it's having a lighter shade of blue was holding it back. In the end structure should be more important than coat and quantity and quality should be more important than what the latest interpretation is to what dark, steel blue is. As I learn to show I am constantly reminded that it is a team effort. It isn't always that an inferior dog lost but maybe that a superior handler won or that a great dog lost but that an inferior handler blew it for that dog. What you may consider inferior may not be strictly true. You may just see that the dog has a weak topline but the judge may see that the dog has a beautiful neck and head placement and proper angulation to move correctly when going around the ring. Jay Ammon wrote a great article on how a dog with bad angles when stacked will often present the best topline but that does not make it the best dog in the ring. We hope that the judge will look at the whole dog and that we can direct their eye towards the dog's finest features. One thing about showing, it will help you to avoid kennel blindness because you have to be able to see your dog as others see it. It also keeps you caring about what you are producing as others ( not just the judge, are watching you and critiquing your breeding program). Being held accountable by your peers is good, it keeps you on your toes.