Originally Posted by matilda99 (Post 1873458)

Since this is the Breeder's Forum, I thought it would be safe to use technical terms like "breeding stock" without controversy. I apologize to anyone I've offended. My only intention was to convey that I've been selecting and purchasing Yorkshire Terriers for the particular characteristics that make them likely to be good for breeding and producing offspring that will be sound in temperament and health, as well as have correct conformation. I thought "nice breeding stock" just kind of put all that in a nutshell for you. I didn't mean to give anyone the impression that my dogs and their puppies would be like stock stored on a shelf or anything like that...Thank you very much to those whose replies were intended to be helpful. Some were from the hearts of genuine breeders. Best, Mattie

Originally Posted by matilda99 (Post 1873898)

As I said in my OP, I'm not rich, but also not poor. I know you get what you pay for and I've paid plenty for my dogs;there should be some show worthy progeny, but most will end up as pets. Those of you who have experience and connections really should be nicer to beginners, even those who HAVE to make money for their trouble. How about the small home based breeders pulling together and helping each other put puppy mills out of business. Can't do it with these petty corrections and put-downs. Best, Mattie

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873837)

at the moment..... we're having Gumbo tonight..... or Mc Donalds if the roux burns... Thanks for all of the posts about the story..... It was an experience I hold very close to my heart.... Anyway.... We all get too caught up in words..... I grew up in this business and I can say the old timers called every thing stock and the term bitch was held in high regard..... I come from that old bird huntin' stock myself.... Us kids were certainly second to the prize bitches in my grandfather's kennel... I think that is why having a mentor is soooo important and that would me my advise to the original poster.... If it is someone in your area or even someone on this board willing to answer your questions without judgement.... Maybe someone who you could email directly..... Breeding is a hard thankless business.... I don't get a lot of thank yous for making Christmas perfect for a kid (although I have always wanted to be a fly on the wall), or replacing a beloved pet.... I mean I do occasionally get thank you's... but they are few and far between.... However, you can bet when something goes wrong, I am their first call no matter where I am or what time it is..... To do business with animals regardless of the type, you have to really feel a certain level of responsibility and that is what differentiates good breeders from bad ones... take those 2 am "is my puppy sleeping too much" calls, miss your kid's birthday parties, meet the vet on Christmas morning while your husband watches the kids unwrap Santa .... My clients know they can count on me from day one to year 13..... I truly believe that is the way to set yourself apart and be a good breeder. There is nothing dirty about making a living with what you love..... You just have to be careful how you do it so that it doesn't......

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873134)

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873134)

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1874684)

With the glut of yorkie puppies on the market and the weakening economy I can definitely see a drop in the future prices of puppies. Of course vet expenses as well as other expenses will continue to rise so in the future you will be less likely to make money breeding. Not trying to be depressing but realistic. .

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873134)

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873134)

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Originally Posted by lisatodd (Post 1875594)

with the industry being flooded with yorkies, many breeders are having a more difficult time placing their puppies. it is a very competitive industry with mostly poor bred yorkies. many people are having to drop their adoption fees and keep the puppies longer. you need to make sure you are doing this for the right reason....

What do you think would be a "right reason?" I breed because I love being around my Yorkies and I'm good at it. Why would it be wrong for me to make a few dollars for all the trouble and risk?

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1876896)

To me the right reason is to contribute something to the breed that you love. Whether it be to strive to bring stronger rears in your line resulting in fewer cases of LP or stronger cartledge in an attempt to help eliminate collapsed trechea. I look at the dogs that I see on the street and think can I improve the earset, tailset, coat quality, rear angulation, of what is out there. I just hate it when I have my dogs out and people ask me how can they get their yorkies ears up like that or their coat straight like that and all I want to tell them is they have a poorly bred yorkie and it won't look like mine. But I can't so I just say they're show dogs. But shouldn't a yorkie look like a yorkie? Everyone loves being around their yorkies, what's not to love but we have to ask ourselves are we doing a disservice to our breed. Someday when I pass on the torch I hope to leave behind a dog who will add to this breed and leave behind a legacy I can be proud of. There are already too many mediocre dogs, I want to breed superior ones.

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1874684)

With the glut of yorkie puppies on the market and the weakening economy I can definitely see a drop in the future prices of puppies. Of course vet expenses as well as other expenses will continue to rise so in the future you will be less likely to make money breeding. Not trying to be depressing but realistic. A $1000. puppy is a luxury, not a necessity and it is getting harder already to find excellent homes for our angels. In the coming year I will probably cut down on breeding which means I may have to cut down on showing but I already have a show prospect that I'm considering running when I finish Connor so it won't hurt too much. I guess it's like anything else, it's touch to start a new business in a slow economy.

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1877131)

If the pup isn't sold becuase I'm holding it for show it becomes a part of my pack and I train it to go in the ring. If the pup weren't sold for some other reason such as a health issue than I would find it a special home with a relative or a client and give it away on the requirement that it was spay/neutered when the appropriate time came. In the end the important thing is that the dog be found a wonderful home but I would guess that if you breed indescriminately you could run out of money. I have a two year plan to start and we'll see how it goes from there but plans can be changed for a special needs dog. You do what you have to.

Originally Posted by dudley1984 (Post 1877815)

Now this is surely going to upset a whole big bunch of you, but the truth is I'm not particularly stuck on the notion of improving the breed. There are a lot of excellent Yorkshire Terriers out there that don't need a lot of improvement, in my humble opinion. They may look slightly different from each other, but they are all unmistakably nice Yorkies. I don't let myself get all hung up on a particular size ear, carried just so, etc. So, what happens to the puppies you think are not an improvement of the breed? I'll bet you sell them for money, and most of you probably also let them go with full breeding rights. How does that improve the breed? My mission is to breed very high quality Yorkies that people can take home as pets. I may or may not get back to showing one day; temperament wise I don't have much patience for some of the nonsense...

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873134)

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1876896)

To me the right reason is to contribute something to the breed that you love. Whether it be to strive to bring stronger rears in your line resulting in fewer cases of LP or stronger cartledge in an attempt to help eliminate collapsed trechea. I look at the dogs that I see on the street and think can I improve the earset, tailset, coat quality, rear angulation, of what is out there. I just hate it when I have my dogs out and people ask me how can they get their yorkies ears up like that or their coat straight like that and all I want to tell them is they have a poorly bred yorkie and it won't look like mine. But I can't so I just say they're show dogs. But shouldn't a yorkie look like a yorkie? Everyone loves being around their yorkies, what's not to love but we have to ask ourselves are we doing a disservice to our breed. Someday when I pass on the torch I hope to leave behind a dog who will add to this breed and leave behind a legacy I can be proud of. There are already too many mediocre dogs, I want to breed superior ones.

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1879359)

If I'm going to do something I'm going to strive to do it with excellence. Why wouldn't I want to breed a correct earset, a straight topline, a beautifully balanced face, excellent angulation so that the dog flows when it moves? There are not that many beautiful yorkies out there outside of the ring. I hear people comment how their yorkie doesn't look like the one they saw on the dog show last night. Alot of the other breeds look alot closer to what they are suppose to look like than your average yorkie because they have been poorly bred. Why breed poorly when you can breed well? Why not care about creating beauty and soundness? Do pet owners not deserve to have a yorkie that is the size, shape, color, and temperment that a yorkie is suppose to be? I sell any pup that I do not hold back for show as a pet and I sell them under a spay/neuter contract with limited registration. It doesn't cost that much more to get quality breeding stock and the time you take to educate yourself on the breed standard is well worth it. Down the road I will be proud of the contribution that I have made to the breed as well as the families that I have blessed with a sweet pet. There's just no reason not to improve and better your breeding program, what good is doing things half way?

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1879359)

If I'm going to do something I'm going to strive to do it with excellence. Why wouldn't I want to breed a correct earset....

Huh? Did you actually read and understand my post? Of course I object to breeding junk to junk and producing more junk. I have excellent dogs which I breed to each other to produce nice pets. Angulation, movement, blah blah blah, I see a lot of that being faked in the ring through fabulous grooming and strict training. I have a particularly nice dog that should have finished two years ago but it's my concern over how show animals are treated that prevented me from placing him with a handler. One of my veterinarians spent part of his career involved in some way in the world of show dogs and he has nothing good to say about the sport--half starved dogs being made to prance around for a tidbit of food. One owner actually admitted to me her Yorkie went into hypoglycemic shock after a show because she had withheld food all day to keep him from soiling his beard!?!? It's a sport full of dirty little secrets. Many of us breed because it is just plain fun being around these wonderful little dogs and why not make a few dollars in the process, as long as it isn't hurting the breed. My dogs have a very luxurious life and mothers treated like little queens.

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies (Post 1873134)

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1880159)

Just wanted to say I love this post. There are so many poorly bred yorkies out there that most don't even look like the Yorkie that the breed standard describes. Most peope have no clue what a well-bred yorkie looks like. My Lacy is a poor example of the breed and I know that...I love her more than anything and think she's a pretty girl, but I know that she is not a good example of the breed. She's a great pet, but I will be buying from reputable show breeders from now on - I strive to only have healthy, good examples of the breed for pets from now on. And who knows...maybe I'll get into showing one day down the road...I have an interest in it...so we'll see. I just very much respect the breeders doing things the right way. Breeder has almost become a bad word because of the way most of them practice, but it's so great to know that there are wonderful breeders that do things ethically and for the right reasons.

Originally Posted by NanaDtreasures (Post 1882009)

Your Lacy is a very pretty girl !!!!!
And has to be one of the best dressed Yorkie gals around :)
I know...OT...but I had to say it