Contracts -- Buyer Beware of These!
 

I've been reading some contracts and I have to say some are very dissapointing and the breeders need to bring them up to a higher standard if they want to be considered reputable breeders. Contracts from responsible breeders are in sharp contrast to some of the ones I read.

For example:

The 48 hour blurb, whereby if you don't take your puppy to the vet within 48 hours, the health guarantee is null and void. So, if I take my puppy to the vet in 72 hours and it has, for example, a heart murmur, it's my tough luck. How can you justify that? If the pups are health checked before they leave, why the need for that blurb?

And, I notice that there will be NO refund of money, even if the puppy turns up in ill health within the golden 48 hour period. Even a pet store will refund your money under that circumstance!

You need to stand behind your dogs better than this or understand that these are not the tactics of a reputable breeder.

That's unfortunate in our breed and others!! I refunded someone's money and there was nothing wrong with the puppy they had just decided the puppy wasn't what they wanted. I guarantee my babies for 3 years with congential health defects and I give the new owners a reasonable amount of time to see their vet and that's usually 3 to 4 days and if there is something wrong of course there would be a refund no questions asked! If you are breeding for the right reasons and are ethical then you wouldn't want your contract null and void after a 48 hour period if something were wrong with the puppy health wise....now I see a contract to also protect the breeder in case it wasn't genetic. I know a breeder that placed a puppy and the puppy was fine vet checked 3 times and then the day before the puppy left and then within 24 hours the buyers called and said something was wrong with the puppy and said it was the breeder's fault when in reality they dropped the puppy and to this day 4 years later he has brain damage and is blind and deaf and the breeder refunded the money and still has the baby but he's not doing good and that's the reason she and I don't place with small children!
JMHO!
Donna Bird
Brookynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I would consider a heart problem genetic and life threatening and it would be covered under the one year contract.

Florida has a pet lemon law to protect both,the buyer and the breeder.:)

I agree that many contracts are ridiculous.....one thing to keep in mind, though, particularly on the hour requirement for the vet check is that for many breeders, this is not set in stone. The guarantee says, for example, 48 hours, but in reality they will extend that within reason. Same thing with what's covered and not....for example, most do not guarantee against luxating patella, since this can be caused by accident as well. However, upon reasonable proof that it wasn't caused by an accident, some will refund anyway. Or those that offer a 1 year guarantee (which to me is reasonable) will sometimes refund well after that year. I don't blame them for making the contract very strict in writing, as unfortunately there are many out there trying to scam breeders as well. For reputable breeders, it is a protection, and they always have the option of doing whatever they want beyond the guarantee.

Of course, I totally get what you are pointing out. This does not excuse those breeders who only give a 48 hour guarantee or something crazy like that. To me, if they will only stand behind their puppy for 48 hours, they must think there's a big chance something will go wrong after that. And I do realize that it's hard to weed out those breeders who are using the guarantee to get out of something. Personally, I never consider breeders who have less than a 1 year guarantee on life-threatening congenital defects. That is my starting point, my minimum acceptable guarantee, and they go up in "value" from there.

It is my understanding that the requirement to vet check the puppy on the Buyer's end is so that there is proof later that the pup arrived in good condition. This must be done within a reasonably short period of time to be valid, as anything can happen in a few days as far as injury, etc. Not only does this protect the breeder from later claims that the pup arrived injured, sick, etc., I as a Buyer would always want to vet check the pup anyway.

The no refund of $ thing aggravates me as well....some just offer a replacement pup....well, why in the world would I want another pup from the same breeder? I would want my $$ back! Even if I felt it wasn't the breeder's fault, I would still feel I was entitled to my $.

i have always and will always make an app. with the vet before i pick up the dog so i know it can be seen asap. i mostly do this to protect my other dogs from things.

I like to have vets examine them right before they leave. I also have the buyers do the same usually within a short time frame. If they kept the dog for 2 weeks, took them to petsmart, walking at the park, etc.. and then went to the vet-They could have picked up something and claim it's the breeders fault.

:yeahthat:

My point exactly. I have mine checked within one or two days before leaving and if the buyer abides by the contract and takes the puppy within 48 hours to her vet, if they tell me it's sick, you can bet I am going to want to see proof when I am sure it was healthy when it left me. My one year contract covers life threatening GENETIC illnesses.

I agree with you regarding wanting a refund rather than a replacement pup.

Sheila

I've been wondering about this too...
 

Had a couple of experiences with knees---8 month old puppy jumped off the bed, yelped, and has been limping ever since. Customer now at my door looking for money for patella surgery. I have since revised and narrowed down my guarantee---my puppies are vet checked at 12 weeks, including knee exam, and sales contract calls for customer to see their vet within 48 hours to verify puppy is totally healthy. Any problems, they can return immediately for refund. After that it goes to one year, full refund for life threatening congenital problem (e.g. liver shunt). I try to be careful who I sell to and problems are rare, but that knee thing was too much....

I've come across genetic guarantees written like this....

I WILL GUARANTEE THIS PUPPY TO BE FREE FROM LIFE THREATENING
NON-TREATABLE CONGENITAL OR GENETIC DEFECTS ONLY, FOR ONE YEAR. THIS GUARANTEE IS FOR REPLACEMENT ONLY.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly...but it sounds like no guarantee at all. Many congenital or genetic defects ARE treatable...but whether the puppy survives is another story. Liver shunt is treatable, congenital heart disease is treatable...

Another wording I see.... puppy to be free from congenital or genetic defects that IF left untreated would result in death. That makes more sense to me than the statement above....:confused:

The breeder I bought Bella from had the same thing, 48 or 72 hours (something like that). We picked her up on a Saturday and of course couldn't call the vet until Monday and the soonest day they could see her was the upcoming Thursday (5 days after we got her). I emailed the breeder to let them know and they said no problem, they would still honor the contract (and I got it in writing via the returned email). I didn't have a problem taking her to the vet, it gave me peace of mind. The breeder has a 1 year health guarantee. I would think requesting the new parents to have the puppy vet checked would help insure that if there is something wrong that may have been missed by previous checkups it would be found sooner rather than later.

While I do have a contract that states you must have the puppy vet checked within 48 hours for the contract to be valid, I also state that those days DON'T include weekends or holidays. Of course, if someone called me or emailed me to let me know that they had an appointment on the 3rd day, I would still honor it. But like others have said, I don't want someone coming back to me 2 weeks later saying their puppy has parvo because they took it into a dog park or something...and stating it's my fault, when I know my puppies are only in their sterilized areas and are extremely healthy when they leave here.

As far as a refund if something is found within the first 48 hours, my contract states that if I have proof from the vet, I will refund all money paid for the dog. :)

But why no refund?

Well good on ya for that:rolleyes: How about in 72 hours?

I think any breeder that is truly good thinks of puppy first and foremost. I have a contract and always have a face to face interview for my puppies prior to selling them. I had a Doctor purchase a puppy that was 12 weeks and fully pad trained ask me to babysit once and called three days later to say she didn't think a dog was her thing after all. This was 6 weeks after she purchased him! I refunded 3/4 of the money just to get poor Brody back. It took weeks to re pad train him and re-adjust the poor thing to a loving environment. I then interviewed over 15 people to find the right forever home. Brody is very happy and well adjusted and will be three in August. A breeder and buyer need to agree to terms and put it in writing.

All buyers should get a check up in a reasonable amount of time and all sellers should provide a reasonable health guarantee.

Exactly! :thumbup: I think contracts that only give a guarantee against LIFE THREATENING genetic defects are crap. There are many defects that aren't life threatening and should still be guaranteed against. What about heart murmors, LP (non-injury), Open fontanels, Legge Calve Perthes, Blindness, deafness, etc, etc. Plenty of defects are not life threatening, but they can still cause an animal pain and cause the owner a lot of anguish and monetary expense. I think it's just a cop out... I personally want to see a guarantee against ALL defects..not just "life threatening" ones. (although I do understand with LP it's sometimes hard to distinguish between injury and genetic so a little more complicated)

I agree with the 48-72 hour rule is a good one. It protects the breeder from being held reponsible for something the buyer causes, and it gives the buyer time to find out about any diseases, parasites, defects, etc. at the beginning before they get really attached.

That's why I said if the buyer contacts me and asks for more time I will grant it.

:rolleyes: right back at ya

:rolleyes:

Are you suggesting that we guarantee against everything as the dog gets older? No one can predict that a dog will never go blind, or deaf, or have some health problem down the road. We can only say that as a puppy this dog can hear, see and has been found healthy by our vet. I had a dog that became paralyzed at 6 years old because of a weak disk in his back that slipped and severed a nerve. The weakness had apparently always been there but hadn't caused a problem until that time. I never thought about going back to the breeder and blaming them. Ruffles was a wonderful pet for 6 years and it was just something that happened. He was a living being not a mechanical creation, he wasn't created by a human and couldn't be warrented by one.

I take it a case by case basis . Fortunately, I have never sold a sick puppy and have never had to deal with it but I have returned some of those "non-refundable" deposits and people on her (all but you apparently) know I have.

I'm just talking about the contracts. Everything needs to be reduced to writing so there are no misunderstandings. The "no refunds" must be in there for a reason, so, what is the reason for people to have this in their contract?

If someone put a deposit on my puppy and changed their mind for WHATEVER reason, I'd be glad to find out before they took the puppy home and I would not be entitled to keep their money.

:thumbup:

I'm sure Lacy is not saying for the entire life span of the dog in the guarentee. I guarentee for 3 years for several genetic health issues just not life threatening in my contract after that I do not. I would love to be contacted if something were to show up later in life so I know what has happened so maybe I can prevent it in the future.
Most severe cases show up in the earlier years of a dogs life. I do not cover LP unless it's a grade 4 for one year. I also cover Leggs Perethess also for the first year. If you are a responsible breeder then you cover the most common genetic health issues within your breed and in my opinion for longer than a year because it can show up within the first 2 to 3 years of the dogs life. But of course this is just me!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I'm not sure if you are here talking about "no refunds" as in offering a replacement puppy instead (if so I think everyone has agreed that makes no sense) or the non-refundable deposit. If the deposit, you might want to do a search for this, as it seems like there was recently a thread on the reason(s) for requesting a non-refundable deposit. I don't have time right now to look it up, but I think if you do a search, maybe on "deposit" you'll find it. :)

Can you clarify this for me? Do you mean that you cover it for the first year, if it is a grade 4? (I'm not being picky, it sounds like a very good idea to me, just want to make sure I understand what you are saying) :)

Yes, I cover LP for the first year "ONLY" if it's a grade 4. Grades 1-3 can be caused from an injury. I feel in the first year of a dogs life and it's a grade 4 at that young of an age it's genetic.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I have not seen a contract like this before, but think it is a wonderful idea! It protects both you and the buyer, and sounds very reasonable. Thanks for mentioning this!

What do you think of This?
 

The following excerpt was found at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/lemon_ca.html

California's law falls hardest on sellers of unhealthy dogs, but hobby breeders do not fall under its provisions except for the extremely active ones. It applies to anyone who sold, transferred, or gare away two or more litters during the preceding calendar year.

Buyers have 15 days to document contagious or infectious disease, one year to document congenital or hereditary defects. The seller has 120 days to produce advertised registration papers. If the seller fails to do so, the buyer may return the dog for a full refund or keep the dog and receive a refund of 75 percent of the purchase price.

If the dog is proven to be ill or to have hereditary defects, the buyer is entitled to a replacement plus reimbursement for veterinary expenses related to certifying the dog's illness, up to the price of the dog including sales tax.

The buyer may also choose a refund plus reimbursement for veterinary expenses related to certifying the dog's illness, up to the price of the dog.

If the buyer elects to have the dog treated, the seller is required to cover up to 1 1/2 times the purchase price of the dog in veterinary expenses.

It is important to note that the cost of testing to certify a dog unhealthy could double what a seller is obligated to refund to the purchaser. This makes it very expensive to sell ill and defective dogs in California.

Report Your Experience
If you've had a bad experience -- or a good one -- with a consumer product or service, we'd like to hear about it. All complaints are reviewed by class action attorneys and are considered for publication on our site. Knowledge is power! Help spread the word. File your consumer report now.