[quote=Brooklynn;1848990]I'll have to re-read your posts to follow what you're saying. I haven't had any leave home with patella problems and honestly don't know what I'd do with a puppy that had a problem. Probably some kind of "as is" arrangement with a buyer...I want to do the right thing, and i think most people are reasonable enough, but there are a lot out there who'll rob you blind...My guarantee was worded too loosely and I didn't want to argue with the lady so I wrote a check to make her quietly go away...

This is just part of my contract...but can also be tweeked if necessary :)

THIS BREEDER WILL REPLACE THIS DOG OR REFUND TOTAL PURCHASE AMOUNT IF SAID PUPPY DIES OR HAS ANY COVERED HEREDITARY PROBLEMS IF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET. Buyer must consult with Breeder within 24 hours of any illness and follow advice of a licensed Veterinarian. Under no circumstances is Seller to be held responsible for medical services not authorized by the Seller. Buyer must have an autopsy performed by an impartial Veterinarian in the buyer's area or Breeder's Vet of choice within 24 hours of death at buyer’s expense.
Conditions covered for one year: Stage 4 (not caused by injury) Subluxed Patellas and Leggs-Calves Perthes. Conditions covered for three years: Collapsing Trachea, Congenital Heart Disease, Congenital Deafness, Renal Dysplasia, Hypoplasia, Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) and Liver Shunt.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

well, if you knew it wasn't congenital and was in fact injury (and the buyer admitted it), why would you pay for it? No buyer can abuse you unless you allow it to happen...

I won't buy from a breeder that only guarantees against "life threatening" defects...I understand the breeder must be protected but the buyer and puppy must be protected too. It's sad that breeders AND buyers just can't be ethical and honest...then there wouldn't have to be such controversy over contracts

[QUOTE=Brooklynn;1849025]This is just part of my contract...but can also be tweeked if necessary :)

Thanks, that's very helpful. How would a puppy get to grade 4 lp without your knowing about it before it left home? Ditto deafness, blindness---wouldn't there be evidence of disease pretty early on?

[QUOTE=MyFairLacy;1849042]well, if you knew it wasn't congenital and was in fact injury (and the buyer admitted it), why would you pay for it? No buyer can abuse you unless you allow it to happen...

Her vet told her that the puppy was genetically predisposed to injury and should call the breeder...Believe me I agonized over this one, wanting to do the right thing without being a sucker. Today I would be better prepared to defend myself. I understand your wanting a better guarantee than "life-threatening," but that is where it is golden to have a good reputation in one's own locale.

[quote=dudley1984;1849053]Because it was born with the congential defect and would show up early in life. That's why I have said a grade 4 within a year of it's life is genetic and therefore congential and not from an injury. Most genetic health issues do show up early in life that is why I guarantee for 3 years instead of one. I want to know if something were to pop up but then again that's why I health test and know my dogs lines.
I've actually had to start over with Cammie and Radar because Brooklynn was my first breeding bitch before I did more extensive research and was the beginning for me and she has LP and produced an LP puppy so therefore she's spayed and every one else she's produced is spayed and neutered even my first homebred champion. So out of the 3 litters she did have she and only one young puppy shows LP and I'm thankful but the lines are stopped period!
I know LP isn't "life threatening" but I'm an ethical breeder and responsible and therefore I hide nothing :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

It's really hard to trust a breeder though. There are many show breeders that I hear rave reviews about from many..everything SEEMS legit and reputable at first...but then you find out it's really not. It is VERY difficult to find an ethical breeder..I really don't think there are many out there. So it's hard for me to trust on reputation alone (although it helps some ;) )

It's possible for even the best breeders to have something go wrong...it's what the breeder does after that shows whether they are ethical or not :thumbup:

LP isn't life-threatening but it isn't something to purposely produce either. Luckily Lacy hasn't had any pain or limping yet, but I cringe everytime I feel that patella pop out of place

Breeders aren't perfect and your right it's what they do after it's discovered to whether or not they are ethical or not :) To me LP is just as serious as LS in my breeding and showing program.

[QUOTE=Brooklynn;1849089]Breeders aren't perfect and your right...

Sorry to sound dense here, but i'm still hung up on the puppy leaving home at 12 weeks with tight patellas and you guarantee it won't go to grade 4 within a year. So, there's no guarantee if it goes to grade 1,2,or 3? Believe me, I'm just trying to follow this.

[QUOTE=MyFairLacy;1849070]It's really hard to trust a breeder though.

But you're in puppy mill country. There are very few of us here and the bad ones don't last...word get around too fast.

oh, I'm talking about all over the US and Canada..I certainly don't limit my puppy search to Texas. It's very easy to fly to where a breeder lives. And there are well known show breeders that are not as reputable as they initally appear to be....even some that have been around for decades. There are several well-known show breeders I might have initially inquired to...have heard good things from several people, but then I found out more information and would no longer buy from them. So reputation alone isn't enough for me.

[quote=dudley1984;1849098]Ok I'll explain at least in my opinion later this evening when I reach Houston LOL...I'm heading out to a dog show but will have lap top LOL

It's ok I welcome the questions and will answer to the best of my knowledge and I don't see any dense :)

Donna

You say that it's hard to trust breeders but I've been on both sides of this coin and I know that it's hard to trust buyers as well. Everytime you turn around you run into someone who wants something for nothing. They tell you one thing before they leave your home with signed contract in hand and than call a week later demanding that the terms be changed. When you refuse you are so mean and they can't believe you are treating them this way. They breed without your permission, refuse to keep in touch, feed incorrectly and than cry when the dog has pancreatitis ( a friend of mine's dog). I purchased a dog that ended up with Legge-Perthes. The breeder honored the spoken contract and I got a replacement puppy after I fulfilled my end of the bargain. There was no reason not to get another pup from her. It was from a different breeding, she was an honest business woman, the replacement pup is from a line that I want as part of my foundation. I do not think of the dog that had Legge-Perthes as defective, she just had a problem that kept her from doing what I purchased her for which was showing and breeding. I'm a new breeder and my first litter is not yet 2 years old. I have had no health issues and have had some buyers that I now count as friends. The honest truth is breeding is more difficult than I ever dreamt it would be and to quote a very well known breeder (had a top 5 yorkie last year) " it's not the dogs that make it difficult, they are a joy, it's dealing with the stupid people!" There are alot of us responsible breeders out here working our butts off, you just don't know the half of it!

[quote=Brooklynn;1849069]I just want to jump in on the conversation and say BRAVO to you for not breeding dogs with LP even though it isn't life threatening. Take it from someone who has had a lot of LP problems and you will understand how painful it is for us, the owners. My poor baby Codie is going in for surgery on the 21st for LP on his right knee. He has already had surgery for his left knee. X-rays have shown it to be genetic (according to my 2 vets) for both legs. :( :(

Not to mention my Chihuahua, Cali, was born with LP is BOTH back legs as well. :( It's so sad. It's genetic too. :(

I just want to say a big THANK YOU to you and every other ethical breeder who refuses to breed dogs that carry LP. If hubby ever lets me add a 4th baby to our family, expect a call from me. :p

I think a lot of things can be avoided if breeder and buyer get to know each other as much as they can before they make a transaction. You don't really know a person until you go through a crisis with them. There are times when it is much better to walk away from a sale for just not liking a person rather than rely on these restrictive contracts that exclude everything one can think of. If you live in a puppy lemon law state, they don't mean much anyway.

[QUOTE=blitz;1849318]I think a lot of things can be avoided if breeder and buyer get to know each other as much as they can before they make a transaction...

I agree with that, interview the people to make sure the puppy is going to a good home with reasonable people who can afford to take care of it and who understand that nature sometime does unexpected things. It's always the people looking for the cheapest puppy also looking for a lifetime guarantee that nothing will ever go wrong with it. I also love the ones who arrive and declare they only want to see the "low end" ones because they're not interested in a show dog, but next thing you know they're prying the puppy's mouth open to check bite, and yapping about toplines and coat...
Geez, I'm cranky today an should probably quit breeding and spend my evenings just playing with my Yorkies...

[quote=dudley1984;1849470]Well it's easy to get cranky after you spend hours on the phone with them, truly feel that you've come to an understanding, invite them into your home, show off your little pride and joys and than when you think you've made the perfect match have them come up with "what if I want to get her a boyfriend, when can I breed her?" Some of these people have worse selective hearing than a 2 year old. I have a good solid contract that ties to insure that people are getting what they are paying for whether that is a pet or a showdog. It's not my original contract it has been revised by my mentor who had a lawyer go over hers. It's sad that nothing can be done on a hand shake now days.

And not to make anyone angry, but if you don't agree with a contract, DON'T SIGN IT! Walk away and keep looking.

I got something to say
 

I bought a Yorkie/Silky mix one week ago today.He had a little cough when I picked him up, I mentioned it and was told to give him children's cough syrup for a few days. I did and on Weds. I called my vet beings that he was worse, couldn't get in until tommorrow, well today when I got up I had to take the puppy to the puppy hospital by referal of my vet. He is now in the hospital with pnemonia. I called the place that I got the puppy and was informed that I need to move my puppy to a place that is on their insurance, which by the way is farther away, or they are not liable for expenses. I do not think that it is fair that I have to pay all of this just because I chose a place that was closer and refered by my vet. She was almost insistant to the point of being rude.:mad: I was lucky by getting the puppy to help when I did, He probably would not have lasted if I would have taken him further away. It is in the contract that I get a free visit with a preferred vet but in this case I think that should be overlooked, especially in an emergency. :mad:

:thumbup: :thumbup: :bravo: I totally agree!!!