YT newbie has question - YorkieTalk.com Forums

bjh · 03-10-2008, 07:06 AM

Over the weekend one of our YT newbies (REBARTS) had a emergency situation with her dog going into labor. She posted at the end of a very old thread someone else started in the 'health' section so most people missed it. If you want to read what happened and give them some input you can go here: http://yorkietalk.com/forums/showthr...p?t=659&page=3

They send me a PM yesterday and this is basically what happend:

Quote:

They helped pull out first puppy at 10:30 pm with the guidance of the vet over the phone. The tried to revive it but the puppy was still born.

The vet had them bring the female to ER so they did. At 4:30 a.m. she had a second puppy and she was fine.

The female did not have anymore contractions after that so the vet waited 4 hours and gave her oxytocin through injection. After another 4 hrs., the vet said that they were going to give her oxytocin through IV to try to induce her because it was taking too long. Then, after 2 hrs. after that, the vet decided to do a C-section. That was at 4pm. Then at 6:30pm the vet notified them that the momma was fine, but her last 2 puppies were stillborn. She just has one surviving puppy which is doing well.

These people are devastated and are wondering if the vet was wrong in waiting too long to do the c-section. Personally, I cannot believe he waited so long. It just does not make any sense. This has just had me upset all weekend.

I think YT provides a wonderful and outstanding service for anyone owning a Yorkie. The problem is that many Yorkie owners do not know about YT and they jump into breeding dogs without really knowing all the dangers involved. The problem is not that they are bad people or uncaring but they just have never been told. They may have asked their vet and the vet might say 'sure your dog is big enough to breed' and that is it, it is okay to breed their dog and all will be fine. Most people are just not really prepared. It just breaks my heart when things go wrong but I know that can even happen with the most experienced breeders.

YorkieRose · 03-10-2008, 07:27 AM

So sorry, the vets first mistake IMO..is waiting 4 hr to give the first oxyie shot..next mistake was waiting 4 hrs for the shot to work..if it does not work in 20/30 mins, a second can be given, if no pups come with in 30 mins, which is one full hr after giving oxyie...THEN a section is needed...the vet waited 10 full hrs...big mistake..this is dog breeding 101..vet should repeat the course..

Ladyhawk · 03-10-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

So sorry, the vets first mistake IMO..is waiting 4 hr to give the first oxyie shot..next mistake was waiting 4 hrs for the shot to work..if it does not work in 20/30 mins, a second can be given, if no pups come with in 30 mins, which is one full hr after giving oxyie...THEN a section is needed...the vet waited 10 full hrs...big mistake..this is dog breeding 101..vet should repeat the course..

Time for the vet to go back and read the book! That is just so sad!

tiggerr36792 · 03-10-2008, 07:42 AM

A shot of Oxytocin should produce a puppy within 30 minutes. If no puppy at that time a second shot should be given. If there is still no puppy after another 30 minutes, then it is time for a c-section. I cannot believe how long they waited before given Oxy and then waiting so long again, wow that isn't what I was taught at all. Sounds like that vet needs a refresher course to me!

tjdmom · 03-10-2008, 08:44 AM

I guess it just goes to show that sometimes we give the experts too much credit. Not to say you shouldn't go to a doctor or vet but they do not know everything and they do make mistakes. I have learned from personal experience that doctors don't know everything and I think vets don't either.

YorkieRose · 03-10-2008, 03:07 PM

This is a situation where the breeder must insist on the correct administration of the oxyie, then insist on a section asap if the shot produces no contractions strong emough to push out the pup...if the vet refuses, then go elsewhere if at all possible.

topknot · 03-10-2008, 04:08 PM

I had Cici in the vets almost two weeks ago because I knew she was in labor (saw very dark green discharge smudge on her tummy) and took her in right away. If I was not experienced as I am (past vet tech. and breeding since late 70's) I would not have know anything was wrong. Luckily I did take her in and my vet and gave her the oxyie shot, since she was not having any contractions. He only waited 20 min and then gave her a c-section. Good thing too, since I probably would have lost all the pups and possibly Cici as well.
I get on here to YT and am just amazed how many people are breeding and have no clue what is in store for them, or educate themselves to be ready for emergencies. Some just think - oh, wouldn't it be nice to have some pups! And not think or do testing, research or anything and then expect everything to be peachy qeen - "oh, dogs have been whelping pups since way back - they can do." Yorkies are a breed that cannot do it all themselves - infact from my experience - they have no clue what to do most of the time. I break bags, turn pups in the channel, cut cords.... People it is messy! So before we have more pups with health issues, dying pups, dying moms .. think about it and stop before it is too late. And if you decide to breed - do it right. Educate yourself and make sure you know what you are getting yourselves into. If I had not been a vet tech years ago - I would not breed!! At least I saw and assisted in whelping many different litters. I learned so much before I even attempted to whelp a litter myself.
IMO - vets do not know everything and that is why as a breeder you need to educate yourself and help make decisions. Cici ran a temp. over the weekend after her c-section. I called my vet and he said that it was only a degree high, (actually it was 102.6 - 102.8 averaged) and not to worry. I made the decision as her care taker to take her to my other vet and see what she thought. She put her on an antibiotic and fluids. So you have to educate yourself and when your gut feeling is telling you something - best thing is you might want to act on it. I knew it was not right having a high temp. I am glad to report that Cici and her pups are doing well. We did loose one pup that was still born due to its stomach outside. Reason probably why she was not going into labor and had the drop in temperature for the whole weekend before her c-section on Wed. I felt this was not normal. And sure enough, now that I look back things were going bad then. Probably if I had acted then, I might have saved the other pup and might have had three pups instead of two pups. Please, please, please... learn all you can about whelping and breeding before you actually put two dogs together. Research the breed standard, research and learn pedigrees, have health screenings, etc... so you can produced the best pups you can.
Sorry - I will get off my soapbox now.
I am so sorry that this couple had to go through this. I am so glad that they do have a pup and the mama is okay. I am sorry we missed her post and was not there to help them.
T.

YorkieRose · 03-10-2008, 05:22 PM

I have had many vets over the years..most were great, some were just so inexperinced when it came to breeding/whelping, they were learning on the job.
I had a girl who wasn't progressing well, so I took her in...my vet was away for the week and a sub was there...he gave her an oxyie shot and in about 5 minutes a little leg poked out...I stepped back thinking the vet would want to get at the puppy and help it out...he just stood there looking helpless, saying it was really bad luck that it was feet first and would probably die before she could push it out......so I showed him how to take a hold of the leg with a dry cloth and gently work it out enough to grab the other leg, then gently pull the pup out...he was amazed. He told me they did not teach anything like that in vet school.

gartracog · 03-10-2008, 05:49 PM

I must say I am new to YT and am very glad I found it. I am not breeding my two yet and have set out on the research train to find out as much as possible. I have done some research before I even bought my dogs and found I could not live without the love of my two yorkies. I am blessed to have them living with me and my family and would not want to do anything to hurt them which is why I am doing my research. I have found YT to be very helpful in my search for knowledge and like to read the posts of interest. (all I can read in the time I can inbetween kids and dog walks)

. I am very sorry to hear about the new YT member's loss and hope I dont have that problem my first time breeding. It may be a few years before I get up enough nerve to breed my dogs if at all. I am still trying to make up my mind.
Tracy.

PrestigeousYT · 03-10-2008, 06:08 PM

I am so sorry this happened to you and your dear pups.
I would search out another vet if it were me, find a breeder friendly vet who does enjoy working with a breeder and keeps up on breeding knowledge.
There are alot of vets who really have no experience in breeding. In most cases they have never whelped a litter of their own, raised a litter etc etc.
This is exactly the reason as breeders we have to education ourselves to in essence protect our dogs.

I hope you stay with us here there are many well versed breeders on this group who are more than happy to help out when they can

Deana
Prestigeous Yorkies

yorkiekist · 03-10-2008, 06:16 PM

What a horrible experience!!! Sounds like a very inexperienced vet too. I cant say anymore than the other experienced breeders have said already. Hope your girl and her baby are doing fine. Best of luck!!!

tnpowell · 03-10-2008, 06:22 PM

Im sorry to hear this, I read her post over the weekend. My heart goes out to her. I am glad to here the mom is doing well and the pup.

03-10-2008, 07:27 AM	#2
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	whelping So sorry, the vets first mistake IMO..is waiting 4 hr to give the first oxyie shot..next mistake was waiting 4 hrs for the shot to work..if it does not work in 20/30 mins, a second can be given, if no pups come with in 30 mins, which is one full hr after giving oxyie...THEN a section is needed...the vet waited 10 full hrs...big mistake..this is dog breeding 101..vet should repeat the course..

03-10-2008, 03:07 PM	#6
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	breeding This is a situation where the breeder must insist on the correct administration of the oxyie, then insist on a section asap if the shot produces no contractions strong emough to push out the pup...if the vet refuses, then go elsewhere if at all possible.

03-10-2008, 05:22 PM	#8
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	vets I have had many vets over the years..most were great, some were just so inexperinced when it came to breeding/whelping, they were learning on the job. I had a girl who wasn't progressing well, so I took her in...my vet was away for the week and a sub was there...he gave her an oxyie shot and in about 5 minutes a little leg poked out...I stepped back thinking the vet would want to get at the puppy and help it out...he just stood there looking helpless, saying it was really bad luck that it was feet first and would probably die before she could push it out......so I showed him how to take a hold of the leg with a dry cloth and gently work it out enough to grab the other leg, then gently pull the pup out...he was amazed. He told me they did not teach anything like that in vet school.

03-10-2008, 05:49 PM	#9
gartracog Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 54	Oh my goodness. How sad. I must say I am new to YT and am very glad I found it. I am not breeding my two yet and have set out on the research train to find out as much as possible. I have done some research before I even bought my dogs and found I could not live without the love of my two yorkies. I am blessed to have them living with me and my family and would not want to do anything to hurt them which is why I am doing my research. I have found YT to be very helpful in my search for knowledge and like to read the posts of interest. (all I can read in the time I can inbetween kids and dog walks) . I am very sorry to hear about the new YT member's loss and hope I dont have that problem my first time breeding. It may be a few years before I get up enough nerve to breed my dogs if at all. I am still trying to make up my mind. Tracy.

03-10-2008, 07:42 AM	#4
tiggerr36792 BANNED! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: California Posts: 6,685 Blog Entries: 1	A shot of Oxytocin should produce a puppy within 30 minutes. If no puppy at that time a second shot should be given. If there is still no puppy after another 30 minutes, then it is time for a c-section. I cannot believe how long they waited before given Oxy and then waiting so long again, wow that isn't what I was taught at all. Sounds like that vet needs a refresher course to me!

03-10-2008, 08:44 AM	#5
tjdmom Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: upstate ny Posts: 5,847	I guess it just goes to show that sometimes we give the experts too much credit. Not to say you shouldn't go to a doctor or vet but they do not know everything and they do make mistakes. I have learned from personal experience that doctors don't know everything and I think vets don't either.

03-10-2008, 04:08 PM	#7
topknot Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA Posts: 3,787	I had Cici in the vets almost two weeks ago because I knew she was in labor (saw very dark green discharge smudge on her tummy) and took her in right away. If I was not experienced as I am (past vet tech. and breeding since late 70's) I would not have know anything was wrong. Luckily I did take her in and my vet and gave her the oxyie shot, since she was not having any contractions. He only waited 20 min and then gave her a c-section. Good thing too, since I probably would have lost all the pups and possibly Cici as well. I get on here to YT and am just amazed how many people are breeding and have no clue what is in store for them, or educate themselves to be ready for emergencies. Some just think - oh, wouldn't it be nice to have some pups! And not think or do testing, research or anything and then expect everything to be peachy qeen - "oh, dogs have been whelping pups since way back - they can do." Yorkies are a breed that cannot do it all themselves - infact from my experience - they have no clue what to do most of the time. I break bags, turn pups in the channel, cut cords.... People it is messy! So before we have more pups with health issues, dying pups, dying moms .. think about it and stop before it is too late. And if you decide to breed - do it right. Educate yourself and make sure you know what you are getting yourselves into. If I had not been a vet tech years ago - I would not breed!! At least I saw and assisted in whelping many different litters. I learned so much before I even attempted to whelp a litter myself. IMO - vets do not know everything and that is why as a breeder you need to educate yourself and help make decisions. Cici ran a temp. over the weekend after her c-section. I called my vet and he said that it was only a degree high, (actually it was 102.6 - 102.8 averaged) and not to worry. I made the decision as her care taker to take her to my other vet and see what she thought. She put her on an antibiotic and fluids. So you have to educate yourself and when your gut feeling is telling you something - best thing is you might want to act on it. I knew it was not right having a high temp. I am glad to report that Cici and her pups are doing well. We did loose one pup that was still born due to its stomach outside. Reason probably why she was not going into labor and had the drop in temperature for the whole weekend before her c-section on Wed. I felt this was not normal. And sure enough, now that I look back things were going bad then. Probably if I had acted then, I might have saved the other pup and might have had three pups instead of two pups. Please, please, please... learn all you can about whelping and breeding before you actually put two dogs together. Research the breed standard, research and learn pedigrees, have health screenings, etc... so you can produced the best pups you can. Sorry - I will get off my soapbox now. I am so sorry that this couple had to go through this. I am so glad that they do have a pup and the mama is okay. I am sorry we missed her post and was not there to help them. T.

03-10-2008, 06:08 PM	#10
PrestigeousYT YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere Out there............ Posts: 1,742	I am so sorry this happened to you and your dear pups. I would search out another vet if it were me, find a breeder friendly vet who does enjoy working with a breeder and keeps up on breeding knowledge. There are alot of vets who really have no experience in breeding. In most cases they have never whelped a litter of their own, raised a litter etc etc. This is exactly the reason as breeders we have to education ourselves to in essence protect our dogs. I hope you stay with us here there are many well versed breeders on this group who are more than happy to help out when they can Deana Prestigeous Yorkies

03-10-2008, 06:16 PM	#11
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	What a horrible experience!!! Sounds like a very inexperienced vet too. I cant say anymore than the other experienced breeders have said already. Hope your girl and her baby are doing fine. Best of luck!!!

03-10-2008, 06:22 PM	#12
tnpowell BANNED for Not Sending a Gift Exchange Gift Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dixon, Mo Posts: 340	Im sorry to hear this, I read her post over the weekend. My heart goes out to her. I am glad to here the mom is doing well and the pup.