should I test before surgery? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Ladymom · 03-06-2008, 11:07 AM

We've had two Maltese puppies just in the past six weeks on another forum I belong have normal ALT values with a CBC before going home who later had elevated bile acids with a pre neuter BAT. In both cases they were retested in 4 weeks, had protein C tests, then diagnosed with asymptomatic MVD.

I've posted this before, but this is Dr. Center's recommendation from page 22 of the handout from her lectures:

2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography.

It sounds to me like the OP's vet is very up to date on current protocol. If a BAT wasn't done earlier and her vet is now recommending one before her spay, what would be the argument not to get one done?

Ellie May · 03-06-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladymom

We've had two Maltese puppies just in the past six weeks on another forum I belong have normal ALT values with a CBC before going home who later had elevated bile acids with a pre neuter BAT. In both cases they were retested in 4 weeks, had protein C tests, then diagnosed with asymptomatic MVD.

I've posted this before, but this is Dr. Center's recommendation from page 22 of the handout from her lectures:

2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography.

It sounds to me like the OP's vet is very up to date on current protocol. If a BAT wasn't done earlier and her vet is now recommending one before her spay, what would be the argument not to get one done?

Wow, I bet they're glad they checked.

Ladymom · 03-06-2008, 12:12 PM

I forgot to mention that both these puppies were from two different show breeders with wonderful reputations, not backyard breeders. Both parents had normal BAT's as part of their health clearances, but apparently they were carriers.

I pray Dr. Center gets approved for her grant from the AKC so she can go forward with her genotyping research.

For those of you who haven't seen this, here is a letter from the YTCA about Dr. Center's grant proposal:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

PrincessLila · 03-06-2008, 05:04 PM

Thanks everyone for your advice. I've decided I'd rather not have any surprise post-op complications and will go ahead with testing. I called Lila's vet today to move forward. Will let you know her results...

Ladymom · 03-06-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessLila

Thanks everyone for your advice. I've decided I'd rather not have any surprise post-op complications and will go ahead with testing. I called Lila's vet today to move forward. Will let you know her results...

Keep us posted.

kalina82 · 03-06-2008, 05:24 PM

when i had morgan spayed i did not do pre-op bloodwork or a BAT. She still hasn't had a BAT. If the puppy is healthy and has never shown any signs of illness then i wouldn't worry about the BAT. its not a common practice to BAT a puppy, even a yorkie puppy, before a common surgery.

a regular blood panel will show SOMETHING is abnormal, and a good vet will then look further into it.

JMHO

03-06-2008, 11:07 AM	#16
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	We've had two Maltese puppies just in the past six weeks on another forum I belong have normal ALT values with a CBC before going home who later had elevated bile acids with a pre neuter BAT. In both cases they were retested in 4 weeks, had protein C tests, then diagnosed with asymptomatic MVD. I've posted this before, but this is Dr. Center's recommendation from page 22 of the handout from her lectures: 2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. It sounds to me like the OP's vet is very up to date on current protocol. If a BAT wasn't done earlier and her vet is now recommending one before her spay, what would be the argument not to get one done? __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf

03-06-2008, 12:12 PM	#18
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,317	I forgot to mention that both these puppies were from two different show breeders with wonderful reputations, not backyard breeders. Both parents had normal BAT's as part of their health clearances, but apparently they were carriers. I pray Dr. Center gets approved for her grant from the AKC so she can go forward with her genotyping research. For those of you who haven't seen this, here is a letter from the YTCA about Dr. Center's grant proposal: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...6213341?ref=nf

03-06-2008, 05:04 PM	#19
PrincessLila Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York City Posts: 79	Thanks everyone for your advice. I've decided I'd rather not have any surprise post-op complications and will go ahead with testing. I called Lila's vet today to move forward. Will let you know her results... __________________ Best Yorkie in the World!!

03-06-2008, 05:24 PM	#21
kalina82 Phantom Queen Morrigan Donating Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: with my yorkie baby Posts: 10,141 Blog Entries: 1	when i had morgan spayed i did not do pre-op bloodwork or a BAT. She still hasn't had a BAT. If the puppy is healthy and has never shown any signs of illness then i wouldn't worry about the BAT. its not a common practice to BAT a puppy, even a yorkie puppy, before a common surgery. a regular blood panel will show SOMETHING is abnormal, and a good vet will then look further into it. JMHO __________________ Kellie and Morgan