well said....

I was going to stay out of this debate but I want to give my honest input and hope it does not offend anyone. First for those that do not know technical definition of what was wrong with Bleu you can read about it here:
http://www.japanesechinonline.org/he...lantoaxial.doc and if I am wrong please correct me.
Anyone who breeds dog, whether they are a BYB or a reputable breeder is at risk of producing a dog with a genetic defect. Many birth defects can be caused by environmental conditions such as toxins the mother may have been exposed to during pregnancy or from over crowding in the mothers womb. One of the most serious genetic defects in Yorkies is liver shunt and some of the experts are still not sure if it is really hereditary or not. I feel that if Bleu's breeder had been a reputable show breeder then we would not be having this discussion at all but since many people see 'red flags' on her website she is being racked through the coals. I do not know this lady and I have not visited her website but just from what 'red flags' I have seen posted about her breeding program, I would question her breeding ethics and encourage her to try to breed Yorkies following the guidelines set forth by the YTCA. I know reputable show breeders that do produce puppies with genetic defects and they do not go spay and neuter all the dogs in their program but what they will do is not breed that same male and female again. If a reputable breeder starts seeing a specific defect over and over again in their breeding program then at that point one should consider starting all over again. The reason reputable breeders have health guarantees is because they know that a genetic defect can occur later after the puppy has left their care and that is why they offer to replace the puppy. I do know that some show breeders that have dogs with genetic defects will turn them over to animal rescue organizations that are funded by donations and those organizations get the necessary surgery needed for the puppy and then they adopt out the puppy.
I want to praise Vicki for all she has done for wonderful little Bleu and I pray that Bleu can lead a wonderful, normal, pain free life; he certainly deserves it. As for Bleu's breeder, yes your reputation is being racked over the coals and I know you love of the Yorkie breed but maybe you need to just step back and re-evaluate some of your breeding practices.

You're right and I'm sorry. I shouldn't make this assumption about this specific breeder not knowing her as an individual. However, I do know that many breeders are very practical and although they love their dogs, wouldn't necessarily invest that kind of money into a dog that couldn't be bred or sold in the future. I've heard of dogs being PTS for lesser conditions.

Again though, I'm sorry if my post offended you, or anyone else here.

Really good posting..I really hope the OP sticks around and can be accepted so that she can learn along with the rest of us..:)

I too think people get way too hung up on breed stadards, but in this case they are discussing a health issue. there is a big difference between breeding and off color yorkie and breeding one that produces unhealthy off spring.

And to be honest, if I knew that I had an hereditary disorder that would be passed on to my children causing them a lot of grief and costly medical bills and even an early death, NO I would not reproduce.

Very good post.....we can often be too quick to label someone unreputable based on limited information. These same things can and do happen to reputable breeders. As you mentioned, there is serious debate about whether many of the problems so often labeled "hereditary" are really genetic.

This is such a sad situation for both parties and the pups.:(

:thumbup: Very well said and my thoughts exactly!

It was very nice of you to give her a website so she could check this out. Maybe, she just didn't know.:confused:

I just want to say that there have been a lot of great posts here that are very informative and well said.

:thumbs up :goodpost:

Only comment I will make is this....if your knowingly breeding yorkies that are producing genetic health issues spay and neuter and if you still want to breed start over and do more studying and research pedigrees and get with a reputable mentor and do it right. To continue to breed genetic health issues is unethical for your breeding program and the buying public.
Liver Shunt is a genetic health issue regardless and if your breeding it you are unethical to your breeding program and the buying public as with any other genetic health issue. Plain and simple!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I assume when you refer to liver shunt as a genetic issue you must be referring to single congenital portosystemic shunts. These, I believe, have been shown by Dr. Tobias to be inherited. However, it is important to note that not ALL liver shunts are without doubt genetic. Liver shunts in dogs can be acquired (usually these are multiple shunts, seen in older dogs, and secondary to another health problem). They are not the type of shunt we usually hear about when talking about Yorkies and liver shunt, usually we are referring to single congenital portosystemic shunts.

I agree with you that dogs with liver shunt shouldn't be bred (better safe than sorry, I think). But I just wanted to point out that, depending on the shunt, it's possible that it's not genetic. So it really can't reasonably be stated that a breeder, in every instance, has to remove the dog from their breeding program. It is definitely a matter for extensive research and consideration. I personally wouldn't breed them again, but since with some shunts the research is not definitive, I can see how others decision might differ.

Please know that I am not trying to disagree with you, I do agree. Just wanted to clarify. :)

Let's say you have a beautiful champion dog bred by someone else and you bred that dog with one of your females in you breeding program and there was a liver shunt puppy produced from that breeding. You say you would neuter you entire breed stock that was related to you female and the breeders of the champion male would have to neuter every dog they have related to that male or they would be unethical?

I think maybe it was someone else who said they would spay/neuter everything? Or maybe I misunderstood this later post, I thought Brooklynn meant to spay/neuter the sire and dam of the affected puppy?

Either way, I love your question! :thumbup:

I think that might have been me. I said that if I was a breeder and a congenital defect showed up in one of my puppies, I would spay and neuter sire and dam and any dogs I owned that were in the pedigree, including offspring of either sire, dam, or both. I know it would be quite a loss, but I personally feel like it would be the right thing to do. Anyway, that's what I would do if I was a breeder