Health Screening
 

Whenever someone mentions breeding their dog, we are always quick to tell them that both the male and female need to be screened for certain health problems and defects. I don't see a lot of info from breeders, however, on what exactly to screen for and how to go about it. I would really love to hear from breeders (both show breeders AND non-show breeders). What do you screen your breeding dogs for, and how do you specifically screen for it? Also, do you feel it is important to submit results to organizations such as OFA or not? If you choose not to screen for something, what are your reasons not to?

I really hope that breeders will respond to this and be honest about what they do and do not screen for. It seems to be hard to get breeders to talk about what they personally feel is important to screen for. When I look for my next puppy in a few years, I want to know what I should realistically expect the breeder to screen for and what tests just really aren't done and why.

I also want to say that I do NOT want this thread to turn into a "who is right, who is wrong" thread or a "who is reputable and who is not" thread...I would like to thread to be informative. And again, I really hope breeders will be honest so other potential breeders and puppy buyers can be informed as to what they should expect so far as health screening.

What excellent questions!! :thumbup: I'm really curious about this too so that I can be more informed in the future when hubby and I get our next fur-butt.

I have been breeding Yorkies for 10 years and have never screened for anything. In 10 years I have never had a puppy returned because of health problems. I have alway just given the basic 48 hour health guarantee. One time a puppy died after the lady had the puppy for 10 days. The puppy had been sick for a couple of days before she took it to the vets and she never bothered to call me. She had the vet do an autopsy and the vet said all he could find was that the puppy had a big stomach ulcer. I really felt that because the lady was taking the puppy to work with her at the beauty salon that maybe it was just too much stress. Anyway, I did give the lady her money back even though I did not have to. This was the only time I have ever been asked for a refund. This was back when I was letting my puppies go at 6 weeks. I know better now. Although, I do let some of mine go now at 8 weeks occasionally, I try to keep most until they are 10 to 12 weeks. I feel like that does not make me a bad breeder. I have only had to have one c-section in 10 years of breeding and that was a 5 lbs female that had one big puppy in her. Most of my breeding females have alway been 6 to 8 lbs and I feel that I why I have had very few problems.

It seems to me that the tiny Yorkies are having most of the health problems. Breeders that sell these tiny Yorkies are too quick to send them out the door too young with a tube of Nutri-cal.

I am confused myself about genetic testing. I don't personally know any other breeders that test except one breeder that does a blood panel when the puppies are about 12 weeks old to screen for liver shunt. I have heard controversy about how accurate the blood panels are at 12 weeks. I also don't know how easy it is to tell on 8 to 12 week old puppy if it has luxating petallas. I don't think most breeder guarantee against that.

I am currently trying to re-do my breeding program and will concentrate on breeding show quality dogs. I know it will be difficult but that is my goal and it will take time.

Thankyou so much for your response and honesty! I was about to wonder if anyone was going to respond. Please, breeders, I really want to hear from more of you

What a good question! I've been starting to think about breeding Zoe and called the vet to ask the very same questions but they haven't gotten back to me. :( I plan on getting her ofa certified and the receptionist said they do that there but not sure what else to consider. If I do this, I do plan on doing it the right way.

I would also like to hear what other people say and do

My adults have been bile acid tested and checked for LP, bloodwork, and have had a good check up from the vet. Maddie has had a little more than that because I was less confident about her background at first.

I don't test the puppies I have, to be honest. I do have the 1 year health guarantee, and I feel very strongly that if ANYTHING, even something teeny tiny showed up genetically I would never breed that pair again, and those 2 parents would have more extensive testing. I AM the kind of breeder who wants to KNOW if something shows up.

Of course, there are always liver shunts that aren't genetic, and several other things that people perceive to have come from the parents and it really didn't. However, I'll always strive to do my best at breeding only healthy dogs.

At this point, I really don't feel the need to test all puppies, since the adults have been done. However, I may do things differently when I move towards the show world in the near future.

i have an answer for all of you but it will be somewhat long and i have to get all of my thoughts together to explain what i have done and also genetics.
i have been studing genetics on dog for two years now (YES TWO YEARS). give me a day and i hope i can explain the testing and all of the studies that need to be done prior to breeding.

My breeding males and females have Bile Acid tests and are checked for LP and of course they have a blood panel done because I think that is important. I don't test the puppies for a bile acid test at 12 weeks because it can be enconclusive (not sure that is spelled right) at that age. I do guarantee my puppies for liver shuntsand most congential health issues except LP for 3 years. Leggs Perthess is for one year.
I am going to start OFA'ing my show dogs to make sure they are structurely sound! I am a firm believer in a sound yorkie!
My puppies are vet checked always 3 times before leaving my home and then again when a new owner adopts one they are required to go to take the puppy to their vet that is a must! I am available 24/7 to anyone who adopts one of my puppies! Not only does the new owner aquire a Brooklynn puppy they aquire a new friend in me :)
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Dr. Center recommends that all puppies in affected breeds like Yorkies have a bile acid test before going to their new homes.

This is from page 22 of the handout she uses at lectures. I believe Dr. Center is scheduled to lecture at the 2008 specialty this month.

"2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. How old dogs should be at he time of initial testing has not been established. Typically, abnormal bile acids DO NOT normalize as a dog ages ..... " (all emphasis added by Dr. Center)

I'm curious how many breeders are actually doing a BAT before their puppies leave.

Great questions! :thumbup: I am interested to hear what everyone has to say.

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far.:)

Great topic! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: I would love to know also :).

Thankyou to everyone that has answered so far! And Lisa - looking forward to reading your info

ok....i am going to try and do this now but bare with me. there is so much information that i will try and keep short and sweet.

first....medical ck for brucellosis, joint problems, heart problems, seizures, temperament ( this is done by showing or going through akc good citizen test if you do not show)

a dog should never be breed if they are aggressive to people, excitable, fear biter, shy or submissive. this is also done by showing

both dam and sire should be utd on all vaccinations

pedigree research.... (this took me two years as well) see breeding is not just getting two dogs together, you really need to do all the reasearch)

find out how frequency they bred, how many champions did they produce, (remember, not all dogs will become champions but that is not a reason not to breed them, you are looking at health and temperament as well)

RECESSIVE GENES NEVER GO AWAY......
what reputable breeders do is research the pedigree, find out if there have been any genetic defects. What you are trying to do is to contain and lower the risk of the recessive gene coming up in your litter. THIS IS NEVER A GUARENTEE!!!!
BAD RECESSIVE GENES WILL MOST LIKELY NEVER SHOW ITS UGLY HEAD UNTIL LATER IN LIFE.......so the year guarentee is good but most health problems that are prone to certain dogs don't normally show up until later in life. but i will say if you have a sickly puppy and after the year warrenty is up, i can say, you probably have a genetic health issue. if you have a healthy puppy for a year, and later developes something, it was recessive and not known to the breeder no matter how many test, research was done.

bile acid test only states if the dog being tested has it, the dog can still be a carrier and it will never show up in the test. another reason for the pedigree research.

SHORT AND SWEET..... THIS IS WHAT I HAVE DONE,

BLOOD TEST
BILE ACID TEST FOR ME because they can still be a carrier but i will never know unless someone contact me down the line to advise me
JOINTS AND HIPS no ofa cert b/c this is bogus...they charge so much money just for the certificate and yorkies are not known to have hip problems.
UPT ON SHOTS
AKC GOOD CITIZEN TEST
PEDIGREE RESEARCH (like i said previously, two years)

so when you see these people come to yt and want to breed their dog.....this is why most of us get so upset because people just don'e realise if you do not do this correctly, you possible could cause a poor little dog pain and their parents and family.

i wanted to do this with my thoughts all together but i just said it off the top of my head. i am sure i have missed some points but i think you get the drift of my breeding program.

i can say that my NEW VET (WHO I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE) a reproductive specialist advised me that they need to be at least 6 months old.....or to their adult weight for Yorkshire Terriers. They have to fast for 12 hours before the test and because yorkies are so small normally, they will not do the test until this time. BELIEVE ME, I WOULD DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT. last thing i want is someone to come to me and state their dog has ls.

Just wanted to let you know that a 12 hour fast is no longer needed. You just need two blood samples - one before a meal and one after a meal. I know Ladymom posted the info about this in another thread but I don't remember where...hopefully she can post it here again. Thanks for the info :)

OK.....I PROMISE THIS IS IT!!!!

GOOD STANDARD OF THE BREED.....LOOK AT SOME PICTURES OF CHAMPIONS

PEDIGREE RESEARCH....BIG BIG BIG.....KNOW THEM, LIVE THEM, LOVE THEM

IF YOU DO THE RESEARCH ON THE PEDIGREE, YOU WILL GET MOST OF THE INFORMATION YOU NEED ON HEALTH

THEN HAVE YOUR OWN SIRE/DAM MEDICALLY CHECKED

STUDY GENETICS AND YOU WILL FIND A WORLD OF INFORMATION

ok, i am going to bed. don't get me started on genetice, i am like the energizer bunny who keeps going and going and going etc.....

LP is just so common in the yorkie breed it's really hard to determine if it's genetic or caused by injury...if it shows up early in a puppy then it would in my opinion be genetic but in an older dog past 1 or 2 it really could be from a slight injury as just running in the yard and injuring themselves and you wouldn't even know it....it's just so common in toy dogs....hard to determine on LP unless it shows up early...

Dr. Center no longer recommends a twelve hour fast as MyFairLacy said. Also, Dr. Center's recommendation is the a BAT ideally be done at sixteen weeks, but since most puppies go to their new home at twelve weeks, then right before their departure. If you read my post #10, you will see an excerpt from her handout stating that.

Why don't you have your vet contact Dr. Center for her updated protocol?

Sharon A. Center, DVM, DiplACVIM

Professor

Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine

Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853

Phone: 607-253-3060 (hospital, on page), ext. 3114 - biochemistry laboratory, audex recording)

Thank you for posting that Ladymom...So many vets are not familiar with her protocol, and she's the one that invented the bile acid test!!

ladymom....this is off the subject
 

i just wanted to let you know i looked at your site and love your bows.
i did not see show bows (i might have missed it), do you have them?

I have a section of show bows on my website now, but just did a bunch of red show bows for a YT member this week. I haven't even given them to my BIL to post on my website yet. I've been so busy making Valentine and Superbowl bows this week. :)

If you want to pm me and give me your email address, I can send you pictures.

Bile Acid .blood panel and LP

Same here. breeders are tested. I do not test my puppies for shunt because the test that young can be inconclusive. They are checked for LP when I take them to get their health certificate just days before they leave me.

My vet in Dallas works with Dr. Centers.....Bile acid testing prior to the age of 6 months will give you a false sense of security.....pups are going through many changes, especially with their diet...It has been discussed that yorkies are an anomily and the normal bile acid test performed can give you false readings...urinalysis testing can give you a better reading.

OFAing is a great test for your breeders as well as CFA. But, having eyes tested for Progressive Retinal Atrophy, as well has hearing checked. Routine Smear for SDTs should be performed. However, it is best to do this on your females prior to breeding to insure they are free of any bacteria that could affect the pregnacy and puppies.

This is great information but still confusing to me about the testing. I have been told that you should do a blood panel on your puppies at 12 weeks and if it shows any abnormalities then do a bile acid test.....is this wrong?

When you get the LP's checked on puppies or adults are the vets doing x-ray or just feeling of the knee?

There are many methods in identifying LS.....Blood tests will identify various initial problems, alerting the Vet to conduct further tests. I know that when I have my pups puppy teeth extracted (usually about 5 months), I always request a blood panel....(holding my breath that abnormalities don't show up)

On puppies false readings can occur on Bile Acids due to a multitude of reasons, but mostly food....Royal Canin food can produce a false reading.

One must remember that pups do have lose knees during their growth period. Initial checking for LP is done manually....experienced vets can identify the grade....but, x-rays can better identify the problem in detail. One must remember LP can be produced by injury (allowing our pets to jump up and down) as well as genetically. LP is a problem that has existed in toy dogs due to their skeletal structure. Breeders are more cognisant of the problem and breeding more selectively to breed LP out. OFA testing is recommended at the age of 2.

Mardelin......thanks for you input, it makes sense.

This is from page 22 of the handout Dr. Center uses at lectures. It explains why she recommends puppies get a BAT before going to their new homes.

"2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography.

I have also heard that vaccinations can cause false readings on the blood work. What are your thoughts on that....true or false?