CKC registration....
 

Does anyone have any opinions on CKC registrations? It is still a purebred dog. What is the difference between the AKC and the CKC if they are purebred?

I am not a fan of the C(oninental) Kennel Club and here is why...

http://www.continentalkennelclub.com...yRegistrations

2.Dogs over 6 months of age which have no previous Registration history may be registered by providing 2 witness signatures attesting to the purebred status of the dog along with 3 photos (front,left and right) of the dog to confirm it is ‘of proper breed type’ as defined by our current CKC Registration Rules and Regulations.Canine Registration Applications are available in PDF format from our web site.

Now, how many dogs have people seen that could "pass" as purebred, but in fact are mixed?

Someone could have a yorkie/chi mix (for example) but the dog looks more like a yorkie and these people could get Joe Blow and his dingy wife down the street to "witness" for them and BAMMM...you can get a dog registered through CKC.

Or, you could have someone that has a yorkie/chi mix, takes pictures of a purebred yorkie, get Joe Blow and his dingy wife to sign and then you can get papers.

IMO, CKC is NOT a reputable club to go with. That's why I ONLY buy dogs that are AKC registered.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

If you not showing or breeding and you like a pup I wouldn't shy away from it, because they don't where their registration around their necks.

ckc
 

I feel at some point we have to take a stand...at one time I wasn't so hard nosed about sticking to AKC when buying a S/N pet...but if you go into any pet shop and ask for an AKC puppy you will rarely find them...so that means most commerical, volumne and profit breeders do not use AKC because of regulations...so if AKC with it's DNA, inspections, record keeping, "nose in the breeders business attitude" are keeping theses breeders away, then I want to support AKC...

PS..I called the local Puppy Palace and they have no AKC puppies ever they said...

Nicely stated...:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

not akc????
 

Well I live in michigan and all the pet shops out here sell yorkies akc yes akc with full breeding rights.most of them will be around 6-7 lbs but that is the standard I also know someone who got theirs in florida a boy akc and just amazing with the silk coat and deep steel blue coloring on the body and only three lbs at 11/2 years old.go figure

Akc
 

I can only speak in my area..Puppy Palace said they never had AKC...they use APRI and ACA...I called a few other places and two had no AKC and the third had two AKC Bull dogs, but they were not bought from a broker..a pet breeder brought them in...
I think it is a matter of percentages...fewer and fewer are AKC each year.

It's also important to know that those two witnesses the CKC requires attesting to the fact that the dog is purebred do not have to be a vet, expert in the breed, show judge, or anyone who has any expertise or qualifications to judge the dog. You could have your Aunt sally attest to the fact that your dog is purebred.

CKC operates on the honor system and presumes that all the information is correct. It doesn't verify information, require DNA testing, etc. Obviously, that paves the way for unethical breeders to use this registry.

6. CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB accepts registration applications and issues certificates based on the honor and integrity of the owner/breeder applicants, and CKC accepts no responsibility for any inaccurate, false, or fraudulent information submitted on registration applications.

breeders
 

Honorable Yorkie breeders with integrity can be a rather short list...

I can assure you that I own one of those "purebred" CKC pups... LOL... Tootie my man, is one of these....
I wouldnt trade him for the world, NOT EVER! He is the happiest, most loveable boy ever and I dont even know where his papers are... my vet says he thinks a poodle got in this henhouse... haha... but, o well, he is a "registered yorkie"...

My Hopey however is an AKC BEAUTY! She is exactly what a yorkie should be and is perfect...
I am totally happy with both of my babies, I have the best of both worlds!
d

Growing up we had an "AKC pure bred yorkie" that was 20lbs, curly hair and had a long nose and now my baby Kaylee is CKC and 6lbs, long silky hair and 100% yorkie. I think you just really have to know the breeder. AKC is accepted as the best registry here in the US, but it can easily be forged too and is more likely to have inbreeding because of its popularity so don't trust it blindly. I'm not trying to dis AKC (my Osbourne is from wonderful AKC breeding), just be sure to do your research whatever the registry.

Yes, I know a lot of people in my area are switching to CKC just because of all the extra fees involved with AKC. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it. I haven't been breeding long enough to form an accurate analysis.

I only have one CKC dog...my first...Maddie. Here is a picture of her. She's definitely 100% Yorkie...BUT her parents were both AKC registered...he just didn't want to fool with AKC anymore and registered them CKC (he showed me the papers and the dogs). I had first pick on a girl and there were 3 to choose from. The other 2 were both AKC, but Maddie looked the most like a standard Yorkie and was the one who stole my heart. After her...all the rest have been AKC...

Here's a pic of Maddie...

I usually keep my mouth shut on these posts. But I feel the need to also say... you need to keep in mind that breeders that have switched from AKC more than likely were in trouble with them and had to. AKC regulations are NOT hard to follow. If you're breeding for the right reasons then you should have no problem following the rules.

It may be that for some...but others it's just the money. I know some who I wasn't trying to buy a puppy from...just friends who talk constantly about the money they're constantly shelling out to AKC. I don't think it was the regulations. I also have several friends who say AKC screws things up a lot with blood tests, etc. and they have had to send the same DNA in multiple times that their expense because AKC made mistakes. Again, I'm undecided. I don't really know which I agree with...but I'm just stating that I wasn't talking about the regulations.

I think everyone agrees that that AKC isn't perfect, but the fact that they require blood tests, DNA samples, etc., even if there are problems with implementing the procedures, is still far better that allowing two people who know nothing about a breed to swear to a registry who will take your word for it that your dog is a purebred.

The fact that your dog is registered with the AKC is no guarantee that it will conform to the breed standard or won't have genetic health problems. That's why it's so important to find a breeder who is breeding quality dogs who have been judged to be wonderful representations of the breed. Equally is important is a breeder who knows what genetic problems the breed has, like liver shunts, luxating patellas, etc. and does all the health screening necessary to avoid them.

This is a good article about what the AKC really is ...and is not.

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/akc.html

I promise I'm not trying to argue with you or insult your friends. Seriously though... they can't afford the $20 it costs to register a litter? I just can't buy that. Why are they constantly shelling out money to AKC? They surely don't register all of the puppies to themselves before they sell them.

My thoughts are that if they can't afford that, then maybe they need to get a new hobby. I just can't justify switching to a registry that is not near as reputible for that reason.

i don't see "all the fees" everyone is speaking of with
akc???? i don't think they are expensive by any means. I paid 45.00(per puppy) to reg each of my babies along w a 3 year pedigree. I haven't shown yet so i am not aware of any fees for this.

as far as ckc, like it was stated before, as long as you have a witness to state it LOOKS like a yorkie, they will register them. i am not comfortable with this.

now we do have bad breeders out there who are akc, this is why we do our homework to find the reputable breeders.

Here in my area in NY almost all are akc registered .

i just paid $35. to register a litter of five. $25. was just for the application plus $2.00 per puppy. Total 35. Not bad at all.

to me, that is great. i don't u/s why people state akc is expensive?

I suppose it's not so expensive for someone who only has a small kennel or raises them in their home...most of mine are AKC and no I don't think registering the litters is that bad. There were just these two particular stories I heard from friends...and these friends are both excellent breeders who can definitely afford the registration fees...that wasn't the issue. It had something to do with all the DNA junk...one sent the same dog's DNA off 4 times because AKC kept losing it and getting it mixed up...and it was at their expense...and they ended up paying like...I don't know $200 or something?

Then the other had a sick mom that couldn't nurse her newborn puppies, and she had placed them on a surrogate mom temporarily...and the AKC man showed up and fined her $500 for not having the babies on the right mom...even though she explained to him that the mom was very ill and couldn't nurse.

I also had another explain something about sending in a litter's papers and AKC investigated them for some odd reason...anyways to make a long story short there was nothing wrong...the puppies had been born to the right parents and were registered that way...and were DNAed to show that...and they had to pay AKC $100 JUST because they investigated them...even though it turned out to be NOTHING.

I mean LIKE I SAID...I'm NOT saying I agree or disagree...just trying to answer the question about affording it. It's not simply the registration fees in these cases...I was just telling a story...not trying to argue.

Akc
 

AKC makes mistakes..I sent DNA once for a new stud dog..did not hear anything for several months...
I checked and the check was cashed..I sent a copy of the check, AKC refunded my $40..and I sent another sample, no problem the second time.

As to using surragate bitches for nursing..I have done it many times. AKC inspector said there was no problem since the pups were ID with bands..

I am going to talk to AKC about having to pay for an investigation...I want to hear what the rule is and why...thanks

Usually if AKC comes to your house and you dont have all the info in order like registration papers/documentation or if your kennel is a mess and not up to standard or if your dogs are not indentifyable by AKC rules, you are temporarily stopped from selling AKC dogs or showing until you can get everything in order and call them to re-inspect your kennel. The re-inspection does have a fee, not the first inspection. I also had them mis-place a DNA sample. They just sent me another swab. I never had to pay again as they had a record and well as I did of the cashed check. For the most part, I think AKC is great.

My advice would be to worry about the breeder, the program and the dogs over the registry.:) There are good and bad breeders breeding under every possible organization out there and the registration can only go so far in stopping the unethical ones., you have to make sure you are taking the proper steps in selecting a breeder you are happy with.

agree!
 

I do agree on that point...but no breeder starts from zero, with a clean slant to build on.. we are at the mercy of all the breeders in the pedigree..it comes down to what looks and feels right to me...and meeting the breeders in person to get to know them and the line is vital to me...how can you meet CKC etc breeders..there are no shows to evaluate the dogs? If I can not see the line being shown, it is no of interest to me...sounds snobbish, but the prove is in the pudding, not the recipe...

Word of mouth...referral from the CKC... I understand your point, but I'd be willing to bet that a large majority of people (both here and outside of YT) owning Yorkies or any dogs for that matter didn't meet the breeder at an AKC event. How did those people find their breeders?

I am not talking about people who buy pets...I meant breeding non-AKC stock...how can a person see a line? When I see a dog at a show, it is not just one dog from one breeder..it may be one of several sired by the same stud ( especially NY shows, puppy sweeps etc)..or from the same general background or some common lines..I get to see type.

You can subscribe to the Yorkie mags and buy books to see what people produce..I just do not trust anyone to tell me they have good dogs, prove it to me..I know my hard nose attitude is harsh, but you can only breed just so much pet quality and keep a high standard...a CKC breeder can not have show quality stock, because there is no way to back up that claim. The breeder might say, they have CKC from AKC champions...but after a couple breedings, the pups are too diluted to retain that claim...and you can not take a CKC and breed AKC to regain what was lost...all the breeder can do is start over before they get in too deep...AND I will say this until the moon turns to cheese...a breeder never knows what they might want to do 5 or 10 yrs down the road...some choices can not be undone..

I understand and respect your opinion as, I just happen to disagree with it. If that is what you have built the basis of your opinion and program of and you are happy with it, then that is all that matters. :)
However, IMO, it's not fair to discredit every non-AKC dog and label it as a lesser quality because of the piece of paper that comes with it. Breeders can have a quality line outside of AKC if they are willing to go about it the right way. There is no reason why a AKC and CKC dog can't be bred to produce dogs that are quality representations of the breed--why would that mean anything was "lost" to begin with? :confused: The pups only become 'diluted' if the breedings were poor.
I guess my overall view on some of the basic principals of breeding are just different from those of many others. I don't think that the only dogs that are 'quality' are AKC or those being shown in the ring. Likewise, I don't think only those who show should be breeding. I think that it can be done responsibly without dealing any injustice to the breed itself.

All is lost because if you take AKC and breed to CKC, you can not go back to AKC if you want to show and it is wise to breed to a quality champion stud when you can whether you show or not..I did that before I showed...

You are right..we can agree to disagree...when given all points of view, people can make wise, well thought out decisions..:thumbup: