AKC vs. APRI - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

BamaFan121s · 11-07-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paw2PawTalk

Hi guys saw this article and thought it could bring some good info to this forum./www.dachshundranch.com/AKC_vs_pet_registries.htm This explains alot about the different registrys...Hope this helps.

Kind of a one-sided explanation, don't you think. Not to mention contradictory of itself and not altogether accurate w/ all it's statements.

It's just someone else's opinion...

YorkieRose · 11-07-2007, 12:33 PM

What it comes down to is this for me...AKC is no where near perfect, but I would not be involved with a registry that could not "police" their members...when you read the long list of breeders who are banned from registering their litters with AKC, what other registeries do they turn to...? There are too many rotten breeders, cheating people at every turn and with AKC you have some recouse..with other registers you have none...they do not inspect, check records, DNA. Cheap fees mean, they have a hands off policy to keep breeders content...

BamaFan121s · 11-07-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

There are too many rotten breeders, cheating people at every turn and with AKC you have some recouse..with other registers you have none...they do not inspect, check records, DNA.

You are right. That is why as someone looking for a dog, you have to carefully examine the breeder, their line, reputation, etc. If records, DNA etc are important to you as a new owner (and they should be), don't get a dog from someone who can't give that to you. Just because non-AKC reg don't require and enforce it doesn't mean that some of their breeders don't do it anyway because it's the 'right thing to do.'
And for the record, CKC as I understand it has a program for breeders (preferred breeder program) where they require you do provide just those things that you've mentioned. So they seem to be making efforts to put a rest to that argument.

Tinker'sMommy · 11-08-2007, 05:38 AM

AKC?? I have seen dogs that are AKC regirested but dont even come close to what the breed calls for

I mean some AKC have floppy ears, long snout, big ears, over 7lbs and alot more but yet people think becasue they are AKC that they must be quality

IMO it doesn't matter because people lie and could regirster a litter to an AKC dog just to make more money

but then again I am not an expert

YorkieRose · 11-08-2007, 05:48 AM

You are right..a pedigree is only as truthful as the breeder..plus, any breeder not committed to improving tends to screw things up big time and you see Yorkies who are not Yorkie in type. AKC does not mean quality, it only means you have some recourse with DNA, etc...

BamaFan121s · 11-08-2007, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

AKC does not mean quality, it only means you have some recourse with DNA, etc...

But not in all cases? And in those cases only if challenged, right?

YorkieRose · 11-08-2007, 07:44 AM

When AKC comes to inspect they check stud DNA and any litters to see if it matches. I do not see how an AKC breeder could pass one stud off as another or fake a micro-chip...I was inspected 3 times and the inspector would ask to see each dog, then they would compare the micro-chip in each dog/bitch to their records..and take DNA swabs. Only the last inspector did that, as the first two happened before chips and DNA...but then I had tatoo's..

If I had a litter they took swabs of them also...each dog was picked up and looked at, they looked at the kennel area and asked where in the house I kept my record books..all was recorded. I have talked to other breeders in our club and they said about the same thing..but some inspectors are more lax about health and well being...but they are suppose to report any abuse or neglect to local animal control...this is why you rarely see AKC in pet shops now..commerical breeders do not want AKC in their kennels...

Of course, the buyer would have to make a complaint to AKC if they suspected a problem...didn't we have a thread a few months back about someone whose stud DNA did not matchlitters and all the AKC's were pulled for several years back..buyers are notified by AKC also..a royal mess..

BamaFan121s · 11-08-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

When AKC comes to inspect they check stud DNA and any litters to see if it matches. I do not see how an AKC breeder could pass one stud off as another or fake a micro-chip...I was inspected 3 times and the inspector would ask to see each dog, then they would compare the micro-chip in each dog/bitch to their records..and take DNA swabs. Only the last inspector did that, as the first two happened before chips and DNA...but then I had tatoo's....

Is every single breeder inspected though, or just the ones with a certain amount of litters? Aren't the studs only required to be DNA'd if they sire a certain number of litters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Of course, the buyer would have to make a complaint to AKC if they suspected a problem...didn't we have a thread a few months back about someone whose stud DNA did not matchlitters and all the AKC's were pulled for several years back..buyers are notified by AKC also..a royal mess..

And if the buyer never complains, as is often the case....? Then the breeder gets away with it? Which would make the AKC registration valid, but worth what....?

YorkieRose · 11-08-2007, 10:16 AM

I was inspected with only breeding 3 and 4 litters..a Maltese breeder I know had one litter and my vet tech had one litter of Shelties and got an inspection. I do know the AKC leans to checking high volume breeders, but if you use AKC you can be inspected.

Most breeders who breed on a regular basis will quickly reach the stud litter limit...but you are right, none of this is prefect...but it is the closest to what I feel is best, since I have to make a choice, I choose AKC...I really don't think I would waste time/money with a registry that does not promote exhibiting and have shows nation wide...(on a weekly basis somewher)...(rare breeds are different)...lots of things in life are a competition of the best setting a standard for us to strive for...JMO

BamaFan121s · 11-08-2007, 10:41 AM

I understand Pat, and agree to an extent. None are perfect, there are good and bad in any registry, but I do agree with AKC paving the path here. Thanks for sharing your thought and input on the subject.

I just hate seeing the 'AKC is perfect and EVERY other breeder with EVERY other registry is crap' reasoning thrown out there all of the time for others to accept 'just because that's the way it is.'

YorkieRose · 11-08-2007, 02:00 PM

Well, you already know I do not think AKC is perfect...but I am positive dogs must been show to keep the breed correct...the traits we all love and desire are set by the show breeder. The breed was not developed by pet breeders without regard to quality and pedigree...if we never saw correct, how would we know how to breed correct..if these things were of no value, then why have a pedigree...why would most breeders desire a champion stud/Ch sired stud as opposed to a stud from 6 generations of pet quality?

I do not think a breeder has to show to have quality dogs, but they have to use show quality stock for breeding and know how to breed correctly...you might slip by for a generation or so, but it is like watering down a cup of coffee, after so much water, you no longer have any coffee...

fannie · 11-09-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Well, you already know I do not think AKC is perfect...but I am positive dogs must been show to keep the breed correct...the traits we all love and desire are set by the show breeder. The breed was not developed by pet breeders without regard to quality and pedigree...if we never saw correct, how would we know how to breed correct..if these things were of no value, then why have a pedigree...why would most breeders desire a champion stud/Ch sired stud as opposed to a stud from 6 generations of pet quality?

I do not think a breeder has to show to have quality dogs, but they have to use show quality stock for breeding and know how to breed correctly...you might slip by for a generation or so, but it is like watering down a cup of coffee, after so much water, you no longer have any coffee...

acowbyzcowgrl · 11-09-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

The time and care is the same, but why pay full price for a non-AKC registered purebred. Those other registeries could very well be registering mixes and have done so in alot of cases. Most ppl would rather pay more for a guaranteed purebreed Yorkie then be given a mix for the same price, so IMO the other registered dogs should be alot less for people who want pet quality and don't care if they are mixed breeds.

I think some are confusing APRI with APR...they are two totally different registries. APRI registers mostly AKC dogs. Dogs without AKC registration must have AKC parentage going back at least 3 generations..and this must be PROVEN. APRI has GREAT shows without a lot of the drama found at larger akc shows and is a great place for some show people to start. Breed standards aren't remotely reached in some cases in AKC dogs nor are most breeders monitored beyond on paper. Look at all the mills turning out sickly akc puppies. Every registry has its faults and their are no guarantees, but of the APRI dogs I've owned and seen, there is NO difference and yes, cost is the same to all.

Kristie

acowbyzcowgrl · 11-09-2007, 08:46 PM

I just wanted to reiterate that the APRI DOES have shows...lots of them. APR doesn't and is purely a purebred (supposedly) registry. A lot of people don't even know that they are two different registries.

Kristie

yorkiekist · 11-09-2007, 11:32 PM

I didnt like the apri web-site or maybe I just read it wrong. They apparantely register AKC limited dogs for breeding purposes. No DNA testing?? Claiming that "other registries" use limited registration to cut out any competition??? And they know the aKC paper sent to them goes with said dog how? Does that mean I can send in an AKC yorkie paper to them and actually be registering with apri a mix breed? Maybe you have to send a picture? Its late. I will re-read it tomarrow.
I think AKC is the way to go!!! They have inspectors, DNA, great shows, do reserch, give seminars and shut down mills when they can. Yep, AKC is not perfect and can be political, but I think they do the best job they can. Its hard to please all of the people all of the time and its hard to catch all of the dishonest breeders all of the time. But they do catch more than any other registry. Alot of breeders on the AKC suspend list or the people afraid of DNA results have gone to other registries just to keep selling puppies as "registered". And its not like AKC just comes in and suspends immediately. They usually give you a few chances to correct the problems before taking permanent action. (unless you have a horrendous, filthy kennel with unkept dogs)Then animal control is called.
Just remember its a buyer beware market with dogs of any registry. If you dont do the reserch or ask questions, you are more likely to get a badly bred dog with health problems. Thats whats wrong with alot of people, expecially those trying to mimick Brittney Spears or Paris Hilton or be like the Hollyweird crowd. They all want instant gratification with no thought on the puppy other than to carry it around in public. JMO

11-07-2007, 12:33 PM	#17
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	registry What it comes down to is this for me...AKC is no where near perfect, but I would not be involved with a registry that could not "police" their members...when you read the long list of breeders who are banned from registering their litters with AKC, what other registeries do they turn to...? There are too many rotten breeders, cheating people at every turn and with AKC you have some recouse..with other registers you have none...they do not inspect, check records, DNA. Cheap fees mean, they have a hands off policy to keep breeders content...

11-08-2007, 05:38 AM	#19
Tinker'sMommy YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, Texas Posts: 2,107	AKC?? I have seen dogs that are AKC regirested but dont even come close to what the breed calls for I mean some AKC have floppy ears, long snout, big ears, over 7lbs and alot more but yet people think becasue they are AKC that they must be quality IMO it doesn't matter because people lie and could regirster a litter to an AKC dog just to make more money but then again I am not an expert __________________ TINKERBELL, CHIQUITO, AND MOMMY MICKIE

11-08-2007, 05:48 AM	#20
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Akc You are right..a pedigree is only as truthful as the breeder..plus, any breeder not committed to improving tends to screw things up big time and you see Yorkies who are not Yorkie in type. AKC does not mean quality, it only means you have some recourse with DNA, etc...

11-08-2007, 07:44 AM	#22
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Dna When AKC comes to inspect they check stud DNA and any litters to see if it matches. I do not see how an AKC breeder could pass one stud off as another or fake a micro-chip...I was inspected 3 times and the inspector would ask to see each dog, then they would compare the micro-chip in each dog/bitch to their records..and take DNA swabs. Only the last inspector did that, as the first two happened before chips and DNA...but then I had tatoo's.. If I had a litter they took swabs of them also...each dog was picked up and looked at, they looked at the kennel area and asked where in the house I kept my record books..all was recorded. I have talked to other breeders in our club and they said about the same thing..but some inspectors are more lax about health and well being...but they are suppose to report any abuse or neglect to local animal control...this is why you rarely see AKC in pet shops now..commerical breeders do not want AKC in their kennels... Of course, the buyer would have to make a complaint to AKC if they suspected a problem...didn't we have a thread a few months back about someone whose stud DNA did not matchlitters and all the AKC's were pulled for several years back..buyers are notified by AKC also..a royal mess..

11-08-2007, 10:16 AM	#24
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Akc I was inspected with only breeding 3 and 4 litters..a Maltese breeder I know had one litter and my vet tech had one litter of Shelties and got an inspection. I do know the AKC leans to checking high volume breeders, but if you use AKC you can be inspected. Most breeders who breed on a regular basis will quickly reach the stud litter limit...but you are right, none of this is prefect...but it is the closest to what I feel is best, since I have to make a choice, I choose AKC...I really don't think I would waste time/money with a registry that does not promote exhibiting and have shows nation wide...(on a weekly basis somewher)...(rare breeds are different)...lots of things in life are a competition of the best setting a standard for us to strive for...JMO

11-08-2007, 10:41 AM	#25
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	I understand Pat, and agree to an extent. None are perfect, there are good and bad in any registry, but I do agree with AKC paving the path here. Thanks for sharing your thought and input on the subject. I just hate seeing the 'AKC is perfect and EVERY other breeder with EVERY other registry is crap' reasoning thrown out there all of the time for others to accept 'just because that's the way it is.' Last edited by BamaFan121s; 11-08-2007 at 10:45 AM.

11-08-2007, 02:00 PM	#26
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Akc Well, you already know I do not think AKC is perfect...but I am positive dogs must been show to keep the breed correct...the traits we all love and desire are set by the show breeder. The breed was not developed by pet breeders without regard to quality and pedigree...if we never saw correct, how would we know how to breed correct..if these things were of no value, then why have a pedigree...why would most breeders desire a champion stud/Ch sired stud as opposed to a stud from 6 generations of pet quality? I do not think a breeder has to show to have quality dogs, but they have to use show quality stock for breeding and know how to breed correctly...you might slip by for a generation or so, but it is like watering down a cup of coffee, after so much water, you no longer have any coffee... Last edited by YorkieRose; 11-08-2007 at 02:02 PM.

11-09-2007, 08:46 PM	#29
acowbyzcowgrl Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Great falls, mt Posts: 191	I just wanted to reiterate that the APRI DOES have shows...lots of them. APR doesn't and is purely a purebred (supposedly) registry. A lot of people don't even know that they are two different registries. Kristie

11-09-2007, 11:32 PM	#30
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	I didnt like the apri web-site or maybe I just read it wrong. They apparantely register AKC limited dogs for breeding purposes. No DNA testing?? Claiming that "other registries" use limited registration to cut out any competition??? And they know the aKC paper sent to them goes with said dog how? Does that mean I can send in an AKC yorkie paper to them and actually be registering with apri a mix breed? Maybe you have to send a picture? Its late. I will re-read it tomarrow. I think AKC is the way to go!!! They have inspectors, DNA, great shows, do reserch, give seminars and shut down mills when they can. Yep, AKC is not perfect and can be political, but I think they do the best job they can. Its hard to please all of the people all of the time and its hard to catch all of the dishonest breeders all of the time. But they do catch more than any other registry. Alot of breeders on the AKC suspend list or the people afraid of DNA results have gone to other registries just to keep selling puppies as "registered". And its not like AKC just comes in and suspends immediately. They usually give you a few chances to correct the problems before taking permanent action. (unless you have a horrendous, filthy kennel with unkept dogs)Then animal control is called. Just remember its a buyer beware market with dogs of any registry. If you dont do the reserch or ask questions, you are more likely to get a badly bred dog with health problems. Thats whats wrong with alot of people, expecially those trying to mimick Brittney Spears or Paris Hilton or be like the Hollyweird crowd. They all want instant gratification with no thought on the puppy other than to carry it around in public. JMO