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Old 03-28-2015, 07:25 AM   #1
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Size of a nickel , under skin , nonirritating, nothing on top of skin, injection site from rabies shot but that's been 2 weeks ago!
Vet says delayed reaction...anyone else have this experience?
She shows no signs of distress except lately vomit 3 times.
My poor baby...5 month old Izzy.
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:46 PM   #2
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I'd get a second opionion. My dog got a very bad reaction from the rabies vaccine but it happened almost immediatly. There can be a delayed response but it's best to get it double checked, especailly if she's vomiting also.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:48 PM   #3
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Mine did the SAME thing...it swelled up like a cyst. It stayed there for several weeks and my vet kept saying not to worry. So I finally went o another vet who specializes in small breeds. He said it WAS from the rabies shot ( from the original vet not splitting the dose in half for such a small dog) Eventually all the hair fell out on the raised spot and never grew back. She had mange for a few weeks after the hair initially came out but we treated that topically with cream. The second vet said her immune system in that area was not working properly because if the vaccination and it allowed the mange to set in and that he has seen that happen before. He said on some cases when a second rabies shot is issued it can cause hair to fall out in big spots all over the body. He also advised me not to give Chanel a rabies shot again as she obviously had a bad reaction to it. He said since she was an indoor dog that would " Never hit the floor outside without supervision" - the chance of her coming in contact with rabies was pretty much nonexistent. And he wrote me a letter to the effect that she was not taking the rabies vaccination under a vets supervision.


I'd definitely take her to another vet and make sure they have come across the problem before. But it sounds just like my little girls reaction. It didn't come up immediately- it took a week or two. It's been 12 years since then-But best I can remember, It's something to do with their immune systems not being able to handle the vaccination. It;s definitely not something to "Not worry about"
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Old 03-30-2015, 05:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by oneofakind864 View Post
Mine did the SAME thing...it swelled up like a cyst. It stayed there for several weeks and my vet kept saying not to worry. So I finally went o another vet who specializes in small breeds. He said it WAS from the rabies shot ( from the original vet not splitting the dose in half for such a small dog) Eventually all the hair fell out on the raised spot and never grew back. She had mange for a few weeks after the hair initially came out but we treated that topically with cream. The second vet said her immune system in that area was not working properly because if the vaccination and it allowed the mange to set in and that he has seen that happen before. He said on some cases when a second rabies shot is issued it can cause hair to fall out in big spots all over the body. He also advised me not to give Chanel a rabies shot again as she obviously had a bad reaction to it. He said since she was an indoor dog that would " Never hit the floor outside without supervision" - the chance of her coming in contact with rabies was pretty much nonexistent. And he wrote me a letter to the effect that she was not taking the rabies vaccination under a vets supervision.


I'd definitely take her to another vet and make sure they have come across the problem before. But it sounds just like my little girls reaction. It didn't come up immediately- it took a week or two. It's been 12 years since then-But best I can remember, It's something to do with their immune systems not being able to handle the vaccination. It;s definitely not something to "Not worry about"
Wow .....I've been struggling with changing vets, already have.the first was never available after hours when I had an emergency. This second one said
It's against the law not to give rabies booster AND when I questioned the dosage for such a tiny she said you HAVE to give full dosage or you might not as well give it all.😱
No vomiting with yours? Izzy had a very lethargic reaction with her first boosters , the next time shots were scheduled they wanted to do two and I said no. One at a time....
Her hair hasn't fallen out yet.but she just doesn't seem herself...
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:46 AM   #5
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Your vet is correct about the amount given. The rabies shots cannot be adjusted!! Yes, it is the law that all dogs be immunized....if you don't do it and your pup is ever in any type of altercation, Izzy will be taken from you for quarantine. That is not to mention the fact that you simply don't want her to contract rabies...kind of a far stretch but IS possible. As for the lump, that is very common with any injection. As long as it is not looking like it is infected....red and warm to the touch, it is fine and will go away. Infection is highly unlikely after this amount of time.

Sometimes they lose hair at the site of the rabies shot, but that is not necessarily common.

Also, if your vet does not provide emergency services, you could find one who does OR find an Emergency Clinic in your area. I would do that now before you do have an emergency so you know who to call.

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Old 03-30-2015, 08:04 AM   #6
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I Have to respectfully disagree with Ladyjane who said the rabies amount cannot be adjusted. We have moved several times in the last 12 years and the 5 different vets who dealt with my yorkie during her life agreed that the initial dosage "Should" have been cut in half and indicated they frequently do this for tiny dogs. None of them mentioned cutting the dosage would hinder the effectiveness of the vaccination. And it only makes sense. How in the world could a 3 lb dog ( fully grown) require the same dosage as a 50lb (or larger dog)? If you like I will be happy to provide their contact information to Izzy's owner- they are located in San Carlos CA, Daly City CA, San Jose CA and SC. The 5th one is retired.


It is a personal decision- but for me, the well being of my dog came first no matter what the city ordinances and law said. And when the vet at the animal hospital in San Carlos told me what he had seen happen in prior cases with tiny dogs like mine losing hair in spots all over their bodies and in some cases- damaging their overall immune system, we came to the mutual decision that what was best "in my case", given that my dog was never going to be outside when not on a leash right next to me, that the best thing would be not to administer additional rabies vaccinations. And yeah- I DID have to fight with the city when they sent me the form requesting that I show proof that my dog was immunized. I sent them the letter from the vet stating that it was dangerous to her health to administer the shot. Their bureaucratic system kept trying to tell me "It was the law" (When they obviously didn't give a damn if it would have hurt her) I finally ended up telling them she died ( Evil grin- due to complications with the rabies vaccination and I called them a few choice names!) and that was the end of it. And she lived another 11 years ( In 4 different Cities) with no rabies vaccination. I even flew with her dozens of times. All you need is the health certificate from the vet stating she is up to date on her vaccines and is healthy. She WAS "Up to date" on all the ones the vets thought she needed.


Before you tell me I got a bad vet...During Chanel's lifetime, she had 6 vets. Out of the 6- FIVE of them all agreed that it was in her best interest NOT to give the rabies vaccination. The only one who didn't agree was the first one who gave her the shot that caused the reaction. In fact the first question I brought up with a prospective new vet ( once I ascertained their experience with dogs that weighed 4 pounds or under) was Chanel's reaction to the rabies vaccination. If they had less than 3 other dogs that were tiny I passed, and not a single one said "The LAW demands that I immunize your dog for rabies" They were all concerned, as they should be, with her health first and foremost. And I'm not suggesting that LadyJanes vet ( or any other vet) who insists on giving the full dose of rabies to ALL dogs no exceptions are wrong or might not have the dogs best interests at heart. NOT AT ALL! I am suggesting perhaps that they may not have as much information and experience with the problems that can arise from it as other vets. Remember out of SIX...five thought the option to split the initial dose was optimal..and FIVE agreed that in my particular case it was too dangerous to give at all.


TO be honest...if something can hurt my baby- it won't be allowed to come near her.. And, "FOR ME" the rabies vaccination showed that it caused a bad reaction "In MY dog". If I have to choose between sticking to the letter of the law or possibly compromising my little girls immune system....Frankly I don't give a crap what the "Law" says. And remember FIVE different vets located in multiple states all agreed it was best for her not to be given any further Rabies and they wrote letters I kept with me when traveling to that effect. THey also ALL agreed the dogs health is the bottom line rather than sticking to the letter of the " Law" ****GRANTED-this was for my specific case with a super tiny fragile little 3lb girl. If you have a 6 or 7lb dog that will be outdoors a lot- especially unsupervised, then this might not be the best decision for you. The risk of rabies or an altercation could outweigh the possible danger of the vaccine. But again " For ME" my dog weighed 3 pounds. The animals she was allowed to come in contact with were CAREFULLY restricted during her entire lifetime. And should you choose NOT to give the rabies vaccination- then it will fall on you to ensure that your dog is never unsupervised ( EVEN IN YOUR OWN YARD), Never allowed near an unfamiliar dog to possibly get into an altercation, and certainly never allowed near any animal possibly infected with rabies. It is a big responsibility. And Izzy's owner needs to weigh the lifestyle she imagines for her little one to make the best decision for Izzy. But she does need to be aware that the lump " COULD" be something potentially dangerous and should not be ignored. ALso if Izzy is competing in shows-she will definitely have to have the vaccine- but I would at least split the dose given the reaction she has had to the first shot.


Chanel's lump stuck around for weeks if I remember correctly- it might even have been a month or two. Then as the lump went down- her hair started coming out and she began scratching ( but only in that spot). I took her back to the vet and he tested her and the demodectic(sp?) mange turned up to be responsible. He explained that all dogs have the little mange mites on them all the time- but it only is a problem when their immune system stops doing it's work as Chanel's apparently had in the spot of the rabies vaccination. Her hair never grew back..and after a month or two of the mange cream- she stopped scratching. I guess her immune system rebooted- thank god!


But like I said...I don't mean to say LadyJane is not correct.The scenarios she listed ARE possibilities should you choose not to vaccinate. But the bottom line is you have to choose what is best for Izzy based on her size, is she going to be in contact with unfamiliar dogs and/or possibly animals infected with rabies, will she be allowed to play outside unsupervised, and will your vet agree to write a letter endorsing your choice should you choose against the vaccine. I definitely would recommend talking to other vets in your area about the problem and seeing what they say and I would cover my tail as far as the law is concerned by making sure that the vet will provide documentation supporting your final decision. If your current vet won't - then I'd find one who is familiar with the problem and who will either agree to split the dose or support NOT giving it at all. As a pet owner it is on you to decide what is best for your dog. And that might not always mean adhering to the law.


And Again..Lady Jane please don't be offended. I am only telling what happened in my specific case. I did what I thought was best for my dog based on what the vets I was going to advised me to do for " Chanel". And I wanted Izzy's momma to be aware that not everything is so black and white. She needs to weigh the risks of not giving the vaccine or splitting the dose and the scenarios you listed CAN happen. But-Personalized advice from a knowledgeable and trusted vet for each specific case is always better than the uncompromising letter of the law which makes no exceptions. And each of us have to follow our hearts and do what we believe is best for our fur babies based on all the information we can accrue.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya View Post
Wow .....I've been struggling with changing vets, already have.the first was never available after hours when I had an emergency. This second one said
It's against the law not to give rabies booster AND when I questioned the dosage for such a tiny she said you HAVE to give full dosage or you might not as well give it all.��
No vomiting with yours? Izzy had a very lethargic reaction with her first boosters , the next time shots were scheduled they wanted to do two and I said no. One at a time....
Her hair hasn't fallen out yet.but she just doesn't seem herself...


Sorry I forgot to address your second question. I DO think Chanel got sick- I don't remember if she vomited or not ( it has been 12 years) but I DO remember that she was lethargic and didn't seem herself...for weeks. The first vet was watching her for the possibility of "Cancer" but didn't think the lump was that because she was so young. He refused to admit that the vaccine could be the cause for the lump...and he was one of those "You have to give the full dose! The law requires it" kind of vets.


I can honestly say I am BEYOND glad I checked around and found a vet I was more comfortable with. But I am also lucky..California is so populated that there are literally more than 2 dozen vets I could go to within a reasonable driving range.


I only hope you have options and can find one who makes you feel wholly comfortable entrusting Izzy to them because it doesn't sound like either of the 2 vets you have had so far have given you that warm fuzzy feeling you deserve to have when you find the right vet for your baby.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by oneofakind864 View Post
I Have to respectfully disagree with Ladyjane who said the rabies amount cannot be adjusted. We have moved several times in the last 12 years and the 5 different vets who dealt with my yorkie during her life agreed that the initial dosage "Should" have been cut in half and indicated they frequently do this for tiny dogs. None of them mentioned cutting the dosage would hinder the effectiveness of the vaccination. And it only makes sense. How in the world could a 3 lb dog ( fully grown) require the same dosage as a 50lb (or larger dog)? If you like I will be happy to provide their contact information to Izzy's owner- they are located in San Carlos CA, Daly City CA, San Jose CA and SC. The 5th one is retired.


It is a personal decision- but for me, the well being of my dog came first no matter what the city ordinances and law said. And when the vet at the animal hospital in San Carlos told me what he had seen happen in prior cases with tiny dogs like mine losing hair in spots all over their bodies and in some cases- damaging their overall immune system, we came to the mutual decision that what was best "in my case", given that my dog was never going to be outside when not on a leash right next to me, that the best thing would be not to administer additional rabies vaccinations. And yeah- I DID have to fight with the city when they sent me the form requesting that I show proof that my dog was immunized. I sent them the letter from the vet stating that it was dangerous to her health to administer the shot. Their bureaucratic system kept trying to tell me "It was the law" (When they obviously didn't give a damn if it would have hurt her) I finally ended up telling them she died ( Evil grin- due to complications with the rabies vaccination and I called them a few choice names!) and that was the end of it. And she lived another 11 years ( In 4 different Cities) with no rabies vaccination. I even flew with her dozens of times. All you need is the health certificate from the vet stating she is up to date on her vaccines and is healthy. She WAS "Up to date" on all the ones the vets thought she needed.


Before you tell me I got a bad vet...During Chanel's lifetime, she had 6 vets. Out of the 6- FIVE of them all agreed that it was in her best interest NOT to give the rabies vaccination. The only one who didn't agree was the first one who gave her the shot that caused the reaction. In fact the first question I brought up with a prospective new vet ( once I ascertained their experience with dogs that weighed 4 pounds or under) was Chanel's reaction to the rabies vaccination. If they had less than 3 other dogs that were tiny I passed, and not a single one said "The LAW demands that I immunize your dog for rabies" They were all concerned, as they should be, with her health first and foremost. And I'm not suggesting that LadyJanes vet ( or any other vet) who insists on giving the full dose of rabies to ALL dogs no exceptions are wrong or might not have the dogs best interests at heart. NOT AT ALL! I am suggesting perhaps that they may not have as much information and experience with the problems that can arise from it as other vets. Remember out of SIX...five thought the option to split the initial dose was optimal..and FIVE agreed that in my particular case it was too dangerous to give at all.


TO be honest...if something can hurt my baby- it won't be allowed to come near her.. And, "FOR ME" the rabies vaccination showed that it caused a bad reaction "In MY dog". If I have to choose between sticking to the letter of the law or possibly compromising my little girls immune system....Frankly I don't give a crap what the "Law" says. And remember FIVE different vets located in multiple states all agreed it was best for her not to be given any further Rabies and they wrote letters I kept with me when traveling to that effect. THey also ALL agreed the dogs health is the bottom line rather than sticking to the letter of the " Law" ****GRANTED-this was for my specific case with a super tiny fragile little 3lb girl. If you have a 6 or 7lb dog that will be outdoors a lot- especially unsupervised, then this might not be the best decision for you. The risk of rabies or an altercation could outweigh the possible danger of the vaccine. But again " For ME" my dog weighed 3 pounds. The animals she was allowed to come in contact with were CAREFULLY restricted during her entire lifetime. And should you choose NOT to give the rabies vaccination- then it will fall on you to ensure that your dog is never unsupervised ( EVEN IN YOUR OWN YARD), Never allowed near an unfamiliar dog to possibly get into an altercation, and certainly never allowed near any animal possibly infected with rabies. It is a big responsibility. And Izzy's owner needs to weigh the lifestyle she imagines for her little one to make the best decision for Izzy. But she does need to be aware that the lump " COULD" be something potentially dangerous and should not be ignored. ALso if Izzy is competing in shows-she will definitely have to have the vaccine- but I would at least split the dose given the reaction she has had to the first shot.


Chanel's lump stuck around for weeks if I remember correctly- it might even have been a month or two. Then as the lump went down- her hair started coming out and she began scratching ( but only in that spot). I took her back to the vet and he tested her and the demodectic(sp?) mange turned up to be responsible. He explained that all dogs have the little mange mites on them all the time- but it only is a problem when their immune system stops doing it's work as Chanel's apparently had in the spot of the rabies vaccination. Her hair never grew back..and after a month or two of the mange cream- she stopped scratching. I guess her immune system rebooted- thank god!


But like I said...I don't mean to say LadyJane is not correct.The scenarios she listed ARE possibilities should you choose not to vaccinate. But the bottom line is you have to choose what is best for Izzy based on her size, is she going to be in contact with unfamiliar dogs and/or possibly animals infected with rabies, will she be allowed to play outside unsupervised, and will your vet agree to write a letter endorsing your choice should you choose against the vaccine. I definitely would recommend talking to other vets in your area about the problem and seeing what they say and I would cover my tail as far as the law is concerned by making sure that the vet will provide documentation supporting your final decision. If your current vet won't - then I'd find one who is familiar with the problem and who will either agree to split the dose or support NOT giving it at all. As a pet owner it is on you to decide what is best for your dog. And that might not always mean adhering to the law.


And Again..Lady Jane please don't be offended. I am only telling what happened in my specific case. I did what I thought was best for my dog based on what the vets I was going to advised me to do for " Chanel". And I wanted Izzy's momma to be aware that not everything is so black and white. She needs to weigh the risks of not giving the vaccine or splitting the dose and the scenarios you listed CAN happen. But-Personalized advice from a knowledgeable and trusted vet for each specific case is always better than the uncompromising letter of the law which makes no exceptions. And each of us have to follow our hearts and do what we believe is best for our fur babies based on all the information we can accrue.
I am not offended. I simply believe that you are terribly misinformed. You say that five vets informed you that doing something against the law is ok? giving less than is called for IS illegal. Pretty hard for me to believe but I won't sit here arguing with you about it.

Yes, there are scenarios where vaccines cannot be given and there is such a thing as a waiver in those cases.

Back to this lump on the hip: Again I say that I believe it is perfectly normal and will disappear in time.

Vomiting here and there can be due to anything....just because a pup happens to get a vaccine does not mean it is the vaccine...too many variables.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:54 AM   #9
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Icratic system kept trying to tell me "It was the law" (When they obviously didn't give a damn if it would have hurt her) I finally ended up telling them she died ( Evil grin- due to complications with the rabies vaccination and I called them a few choice names!) and that was the end of it. And she lived another 11 years ( In 4 different Cities) with no rabies vaccination. I even flew with her dozens of times. All you need is the health certificate from the vet stating she is up to date on her vaccines and is healthy. She WAS "Up to date" on all
.
Reading all of this is downright disturbing. I guess you did the same with other vaccines as well.

Do you have children who run around unvaccinated as well?

No offense, but it is people like you who contribute to public health nightmares.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:00 AM   #10
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I am not offended. I simply believe that you are terribly misinformed. You say that five vets informed you that doing something against the law is ok? giving less than is called for IS illegal. Pretty hard for me to believe but I won't sit here arguing with you about it.

Yes, there are scenarios where vaccines cannot be given and there is such a thing as a waiver in those cases.

Back to this lump on the hip: Again I say that I believe it is perfectly normal and will disappear in time.

Vomiting here and there can be due to anything....just because a pup happens to get a vaccine does not mean it is the vaccine...too many variables.

Lady Jane Glad you are not offended. I truly TRULY didn't want to be disrespectful in any way.


And yes I got a "Waiver" (from 5 different vets) though I had forgotten that's what it was called.


And I also hope the lump is nothing to worry about and that it will disappear in time AND I hope that Izzy will be able to get the rabies vaccine. It is more preferable to be able to adhere to the laws than not.


Also agree vomiting can be due to a lot of things- not necessarily the vaccine.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:07 AM   #11
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Reading all of this is downright disturbing. I guess you did the same with other vaccines as well.

Do you have children who run around unvaccinated as well?

No offense, but it is people like you who contribute to public health nightmares.
YES!! my dog got all her other vaccines.


And though I don't have children other than the furry kind- I DO believe in being vaccinated and would definitely vaccinate my kids. And I think the people who currently are not giving their kids the polio vaccine are downright ignorant and stupid. There is no doctor in the US who would advise not to vaccinate against something like that.


But I was advised by numerous vets that Chanel was a special circumstance- SPECIFICALLY for RABIES as I clearly tried to state. I did NOT act out of ignorance or stupidity.


You are rude to make such a generalization about "people like me" when you don't know me at all.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:08 AM   #12
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If a vet ever told me they wanted to "adjust" or cut down a dose of rabies vaccine on my animal, I would politely decline and then file a complaint with the licensing board in my state. Any vet running roughshod around the law and rules, taking matters into their own hands against their own practice rules would not be touching my dogs and I'd do my best to make sure that they were disciplined for the suggestion. Just my thoughts.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:21 AM   #13
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Apparently I am not the first- OR the only one to experience this


and yes " Waivers" have been issued by other vets...and I have learned something new. "Titer testing" can be done to have the legal tag issued in dog the vets feel could have health issues due to rabies vaccinations. Had I known this 12 years ago I could have better dealt with the legal side of the situation. But is DOES make me feel better to know that the 5 vets I used were not deserving of "Discipline" for their compassion.


and yes other vets split the dosage for may other dogs.


Here is the thread detailing it.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...s-vaccine.html
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:37 AM   #14
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Apparently I am not the first- OR the only one to experience this


and yes " Waivers" have been issued by other vets...and I have learned something new. "Titer testing" can be done to have the legal tag issued in dog the vets feel could have health issues due to rabies vaccinations. Had I known this 12 years ago I could have better dealt with the legal side of the situation. But is DOES make me feel better to know that the 5 vets I used were not deserving of "Discipline" for their compassion.


and yes other vets split the dosage for may other dogs.


Here is the thread detailing it.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...s-vaccine.html
In my state, you need a rabies vaccine. There's no medical exemption and titers do not count.

It has nothing to do with "compassion" when a vet decides to skirt the law of their state. What else are they not honest about???
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:17 AM   #15
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I wouldn't be too concerned about the lump as long as it stats as is. If something overall hasn't been quite right for weeks (be ause of a vaccine or any other reason) then you'll need to find a vet that will listen to you and maybe do labs.

Some vets do adjust the rabies dose if they feel like it, but this is ILLEGAL. So what they can do and what they should do are different. They are lying to the government when signing off. Aside from that I have to question their knowledge of immunology if they think it is okay to cut a dose as they desire. These vaccines don't come in one dose for convenience. They come in the dose that is serologically and/or challenge tested.

Waivers are fine if truly needed. It is better than falsifying dosing amounts on soething as serious as rabies. That said, waivers and titers may keep you from fines. They do not keep your pet safe from quarantine and/or decapitation for testing.
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