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04-29-2009, 02:05 PM | #1 |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | CGC test requires collars for all dogs! Am I the only one this infuriates? Courtney (c101Yorkie) just put Sapphire through a test to become a therapy dog through Therapy Dogs United. Part of their testing requirement is for the dog to pass the Canine Good Citizen test. But AKC, which administers that, requires that all dogs wear a buckle collar around the neck. Harnesses are not allowed. So if you've got a Yorkie with a sensitive neck, you're forced to take a chance. And during the testing, they do a distraction test where the dog is deliberately startled. AKC does have a way around it, but it requires that a vet certify that the dog has an "extreme" injury. Here's AKC's rule on that. I'd be interested in your thoughts: “Owner states Vet will not allow dog to wear collar. If the dog has an extreme medical condition and the owner is unable to participate using the collars listed, the AKC needs a signed statement from the Veterinarian (on their letterhead) explaining the medical condition. This can be provided to the AKC CGC testing official at the time of testing. The statement needs to include verification that the dog’s medical condition is so severe that he/she is not medically able to use a thin slip lead for a period of about 10 minutes (the estimated time it takes to complete the Canine Good Citizen Test). The AKC believes that a dog trained and ready for the CGC test will not pull or put pressure on the trachea. If the dog’s medical condition is verified, and it is suggested by a professional Veterinarian to forgo the approved collars, the Canine Good Citizen test can be given in the harness. However, absolutely no pulling on the harness is permitted, and will be grounds for failure.”
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube |
Welcome Guest! | |
04-29-2009, 02:20 PM | #2 |
♥Sapphire♥ Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: PA, USA
Posts: 4,069
| Yorkies and other breeds with delicate necks should be allowed to wear the harness! There's a reason why they aren't wearing a collar, so why should they to take a test? After the test, they are free to go back to the harness. I don't think it makes any sense... And why risk the "extreme injury" part? If the dog's neck isn't hurt, and they make you test with the collar and then they do get injured, well, that's just not right. And who would be responsible? The owner because they can't stop their dog from choking itself? Or AKC, who won't let the dog test without risking being hurt? I think AKC should be responsible if something were to happen. Especially during the separation part. I wouldn't be there to try to stop Sapphire from choking, but the person in there is told to just hold the end of the leash and let Sapphire do whatever, including choking herself constantly...
__________________ Courtney Sapphire |
04-29-2009, 02:27 PM | #3 |
YT Graphic Artist Donating Member | It is so strange that you post this today. Last night was my first night of obedience training (no dogs the first week so I guess it was human training 101), My main concern was when I found out it was required for them to have either a choke collar or a prong collar! Now, maybe that's fine for a Lab puppy who weighs 60 lbs. but my Brandi is 10 times smaller and she wears a harness only. I had to talk to the teacher after class and I explained that she is a Yorkie, and her neck is only this big, and she said to me "Well, I've seen them on Chihuahuas - I know they make them that small" and I told her I knew that too, but that isn't the issue. She said they can't be trained with a harness, and unless there was a medical reason, she needs this collar - so I told her the medical reason is she is prone to a collapsed trachea and/or pinched nerves, etc. (as with the whole yorkie breed) so she finally said "Fine" ... I just can't see pulling a yorkie around with a metal prong collar! It's just not right.
__________________ Shadow Dancer (RIP) , Gellica, Li'l Sapphire, Phantom, & Brandi Blu (RIP) |
04-29-2009, 08:40 PM | #4 | |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | Quote:
We took 3 or 4 classes with a collar, and have since taken about a dozen with a harness. He does fine. I've even taken him through a couple rally courses in a harness, and the instructors watching said he did terrific. No pulling. And no choking. He also passed the Delta Society therapy dog test twice in harness. My new obedience instructor has never even questioned it. A suggestion: Normally instructors advocating collars also advocate "corrections," or short tugs on the leash. I would lean against that too. Instead, get your dog to pay attention to you by dangling treats or a favorite toy.
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube Last edited by alaskayorkie; 04-29-2009 at 08:44 PM. | |
04-30-2009, 04:25 AM | #5 |
YT Graphic Artist Donating Member | Thanks! I was worried about the harness because everyone keeps telling me that the training doesn't work right with one, and that it actually encourages them to pull, etc. My Brandi does fine on a harness when we are just walking around, and since she is ALWAYS in a harness, then she should be trained with one. It just makes more sense. Thanks for the encouragement. I hope she does well. I want to get her into agility because she is a natural. She's a high jumper, and she's fast. I don't think ANY place should demand they wear a certain collar - it's my dog not theirs, and if she injures her trachea, who pays the vet bill? Therefore, I should be making the decisions. I was ready to leave until the trainer finally agreed to let her wear the harness. Most of the dogs are large breed dogs, except for a Westie, Brandi is the only small breed dog there.
__________________ Shadow Dancer (RIP) , Gellica, Li'l Sapphire, Phantom, & Brandi Blu (RIP) |
04-30-2009, 04:31 AM | #6 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Satellite Beach, FL
Posts: 3,691
| Shame Shame Shame on AKC! They of all organizations should know the ricks associated with putting a collar on a toy breed. |
04-30-2009, 06:02 AM | #7 |
♥Sapphire♥ Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: PA, USA
Posts: 4,069
| Agreed!
__________________ Courtney Sapphire |
04-30-2009, 08:16 AM | #8 | |
Donating YT 10K Club Member | Quote:
Small breeds in shows don't wear harnesses and suffer no ill effects. I tend to agree a dog obtaining their CGC certification has been trained to heel at your side...not pull on a lead.
__________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com | |
04-30-2009, 11:21 AM | #9 | |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | Quote:
As for pulling in the tests, the test is all about seeing how the dog reacts to surprises. They might make a loud bang. They have to walk up to another person and dog. They're left with a stranger while you walk away. While the goal is for them not to pull, unless your dog is exceptional, there's going to be some pulling. The ones that get over it quickly are the ones that pass. And, Stacy. The downside is that harnesses can promote pulling. You have to work harder as a trainer to avoid it.
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube | |
04-30-2009, 11:36 AM | #10 | |
Donating YT 10K Club Member | Quote:
__________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com | |
04-30-2009, 11:53 AM | #11 |
Therapy Dog Donating Member | Wow that's interesting Mike as when Izzy took her CGC test we used the harness but we also were able to take the test where she took all her puppy training classes. I wonder if it's where you take the test? She was also in a harness while passing therapy via Delta Org. We were never questioned about the harness.
__________________ Cynd, Izzy (Yorkie) & Cosmo (Biewer)(Secwetary & Charter Membwer of the Dirty FurKids Cwub)-Jusz say NO ta bein' cwean!)proud member of the CrAzYcLuB! ~The PINK club~SRC |
04-30-2009, 03:26 PM | #12 |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | I think I'm going to try one of those out. Thanks. I've never liked the looks of them, but I know the Dog Whisperer does. I may just be reacting out of ignorance. Of course, that would be a first.
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube |
04-30-2009, 03:30 PM | #13 | |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | Quote:
Neither Delta nor Therapy Dogs United require it in their testing. Hey, bchgirl, do you use slip collars on your dogs for daily walks or just show? And, yes, I'm setting you up for an I TOLD YOU SO. My main gripe with the CGC test is requiring a dog to use a collar that they don't use in everyday life.
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube | |
05-01-2009, 03:47 AM | #14 | |
Donating YT 10K Club Member | Quote:
I've only used the slip lead with Frazier...he's never been on a regular leash. There are leads which are called kindness leads...they have a silk strap that goes beneath the chin. If your show friends show small breeds...I bet you could borrow one. Show Tech Silk Toy Show Leads - Cherrybrook
__________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com | |
05-01-2009, 03:52 AM | #15 | |
YT Graphic Artist Donating Member | Quote:
__________________ Shadow Dancer (RIP) , Gellica, Li'l Sapphire, Phantom, & Brandi Blu (RIP) | |
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