HELP....Breeder Rose Hanson My Itty Bitty Yorkies - YorkieTalk.com Forums

mcleancobalt · 07-29-2014, 05:36 PM

Help.....On Feb. 19, 2014, my beloved Wolfgang died suddenly. He was a small Yorkie, and the love of our lives. He was 9 years old. I was so grief stricken that my hubby suggested I buy another Yorkie...I found a local breeder - Rose Hanson in Sun Valley California. Her website is myittybittyyorkies.com. I got our second Yorkie Axel in April. He was five months old. I paid $1500.00, $500 or more less, because he had allegedly been returned by the previous purchaser who did not have the time to deal with 2 new yorkies.
We discovered within days that he had a skin infection which she said was ringworm. The breeder sent him home with treatment for giardia and I went back to her for ringworm shampoo and ointment. I took him to our vet, had his skin tested and it was not ringworm. The doctor gave me different medication (for a bacterial infection) and it cleared up. The breeder refused to pay for the vet bills, but I am a lawyer and was actually happy my husband wasn't going to force me to duke it out in court. I get tired of people suing people.
I specifically purchased Axel un-neutered, so we can breed him, and my daughter was going to buy a female (for us....and not for a business). I contacted "natalies yorkies" on Rose's website to see if she had a female. In the meantime - I still have not received Axel's AKC papers. I received a text from Rose stating I purchased Axel as a "pet only" - and later a text saying she was waiting for proof he was neutered to send me his papers. Completely false. I am heartbroken because a) I trusted her; and b) I was willing to absorb vet bills she would have been responsible for because I get sick and tired of people being dishonest and having to hail people into court. Today, I was referred to the agency which licenses dog breeders - her name and address were on file and they said she is not registered nor licensed as a breeder. Can this be true? She has a website in California and at least 8 dogs....does this mean Axel cannot get AKC papers? I am hopeful the agency is wrong. My first baby - Wolfgang - came from Ron-Del Kennels in Oregon. Everyone knows they were stand up - and loved loved loved Yorkies. They were true to the breed and integrity. Does anyone know what agency I contact as a consumer? I am hopeful this is all some mix up......if you cannot trust people when buying a Yorkie then what is this world coming too. I am again heartbroken.

ChibiLuv · 07-29-2014, 05:52 PM

Please neuter this dog. Any breeder that specializes in teacups is not reputable. A good breeder would make sure any dog used for breeding was in the hands of an experienced shower. Akc has yorkies between 4-7 pounds, to breed smaller than this would not be recognized as quality by their standards. You got a backyard breeder, someone who is mostly concerned with money. Please have your daughter do her research as well, their is a section about what 'red flags' to look for when choosing a breeder. I hope our pup is well, many 'teacups' have health issues.

ChibiLuv · 07-29-2014, 05:57 PM

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/fea...ead-first.html

Lolasmom1211 · 07-29-2014, 06:04 PM

I think there are lots of threads on Natalie's Yorkies, also. Please, please do your research before buying another pup. Good luck!

gemy · 07-29-2014, 06:18 PM

I would look at the puppy lemon laws for your State. Just google them and they will come up.

What does your contract and or bill of sale say in respects to breeding rights? No breeder I know will sell a puppy without a contract. And it is very common that AKC breeders will withhold registration paperwork until proof of neutering.

Some things that you can do. Contact the AKC and see if she is a breeder of merit, and or if there have been complaints lodged against her. Contact the National Breed club www.ytca.org to see if she is a breeder member. And then ask if she is a member in good standing.

THis here is from Rose Hansons purchase sale agreement:

All puppies are sold as pets with limited registation, akc papers will be held back until purchaser provides Rose Hanson with proof of spay or neuter cetificate from the Vet. Spay and Neuter contract may be attached

So if you signed this well you are the lawyer, to my simple mind that means you agreed to the terms as clearly stated above.

In terms of breeding any dog it is truly something you do really need to research prior to jumping into this activity. Also please note that you will not be able to register this litter unless and until you get a written agreement with this breeder, that this puppy can be used for breeding, then she will fill out the paperwork for open registration.

shelbysmom · 07-29-2014, 06:18 PM

I just read her purchase agreement online. Did you?

Maximo · 07-29-2014, 06:20 PM

Did you sign a contract with her when you purchased Axel? It is very common for breeders to sell pups on spay/neuter conditions. I had to provide proof of neutering to receive Max's AKC papers (which I then had to complete to register with AKC).

To find out if Axel can be registered with AKC, contact AKC to find out if Axel's parents and the litter were registered.

If he were my pup, I would simply be thankful that he is now healthy.

gemy · 07-29-2014, 06:29 PM

What agency that licenses dog breeders? What is its name? Maybe that agency is unique to SoCal, don't know.

There are how-ever new APHIS rules that now require hobby breeders who have 4 or more breeding females and sells even one dog over the internet to secure a USDA license. This is Federal Law, not state or local county law.

Your local county might have county rules or laws covering breeders as well that operate in your county. So she could be in non-compliance with one or both county Law and or Federal Law.

How-ever that is un-likely to help you secure her co-operation to allow you to breed this dog, if you report her to local and or Federal Authorities.

Once again I am not a lawyer, but surely as you are, you have quick access to County/State and Federal law.

Lovetodream88 · 07-29-2014, 06:38 PM

I'm so sorry both those breeders you mentioned are not reputable breeders so not only should people never buy from them but should certainly not breed there dogs. Also they have tiny yorkies and a female under 5 pounds should not be bred. If you are truely interested in breeding you really need to find a reputable breeder earn there trust, let them mentor you and see if you can breed one of there dogs. There is so much more to breeding then putting two dogs together you have to know there background and lines to make sure there has been no health issues that run in them, there is also special genetic testing that can't be done by a regular vet, the female should not be under 5 pounds and you have to realize it's not easy and if you miss even a small sign that the female is in distress you could lose her and or the pups. There is also times the mom will reject the pups or what if you lose the mom and then you have to do everything the mom dog does like feed every two hours, clean them, keep them warm, and stimulate them to potty. It will also definitely change your male. In a way it's a blessing you were drawn to this site before you bred.

megansmomma · 07-29-2014, 07:05 PM

Talk about jumping from the pot into the fire.....you actually wanted to buy a puppy from Natalie's Yorkie's to breed. Have you tried to do a Google search to check the reputation of either of these people? All you need to do is type Natalie's Yorkies into a search and all types of bad things come up.

Yorkiemom1 · 07-29-2014, 08:03 PM

Well........I think everything that can be said about this, has been said. Did you sign a contract with this lady? I go over my contracts with my new owners, line by line, across the table, eye to eye....all questions answered. I even ask almost after every sentence, "Is there anything you do not understand so far?" I hope you will say this breeder did the same thing with you....but regardless, you know as a lawyer, you read the contract as it was written, no changes made, then she has that very clearly in her contract that she sells pet only. I am sorry you have run into problems with this purchase. Good luck with your possible venture into breeding. But I would advise you to get in with a bunch of show breeders, learn who of the group is reputable (Yes there are less than reputable show breeders out there, but hanging around the show circuits you will find out who is who...)find a line of dogs that you really think are exactly what you want to reproduce, and see if you can purchase a dog from one of these people for breeding stock. This dog will const you consdierably more than $1500.00-$2000.00, so do not be surprised.

mcleancobalt · 07-30-2014, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemy

I would look at the puppy lemon laws for your State. Just google them and they will come up.

What does your contract and or bill of sale say in respects to breeding rights? No breeder I know will sell a puppy without a contract. And it is very common that AKC breeders will withhold registration paperwork until proof of neutering.

Some things that you can do. Contact the AKC and see if she is a breeder of merit, and or if there have been complaints lodged against her. Contact the National Breed club www.ytca.org to see if she is a breeder member. And then ask if she is a member in good standing.

THis here is from Rose Hansons purchase sale agreement:

All puppies are sold as pets with limited registation, akc papers will be held back until purchaser provides Rose Hanson with proof of spay or neuter cetificate from the Vet. Spay and Neuter contract may be attached

So if you signed this well you are the lawyer, to my simple mind that means you agreed to the terms as clearly stated above.

In terms of breeding any dog it is truly something you do really need to research prior to jumping into this activity. Also please note that you will not be able to register this litter unless and until you get a written agreement with this breeder, that this puppy can be used for breeding, then she will fill out the paperwork for open registration.

I read the contract we signed....not the contract online...as that will be the one which controls. Definition of terms is important...and the writer of the contract bears that burden. For instance...when I bought Wolfy from Ron Del Kennels...the term Pet quality distingushed from show quality... like a dark coat...etc. My contract guarantees my receipt of AKC papers within 90 days. Period. Thank you to each of you who took the time to write. I am led in the right direction. As for Natalie'd Yorkies...I have now read the negatives...I just never know if it is true..competitors with no scruples etc..anything pisted online should be taken with some caution..even posts to my dilemma which couod come from a persin with a vested interest....I'm just saying.... I received additional texts from the breeder and have to choose which way to deal with this. Thank you again.

Lovetodream88 · 07-30-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcleancobalt

I read the contract we signed....not the contract online...as that will be the one which controls. Definition of terms is important...and the writer of the contract bears that burden. For instance...when I bought Wolfy from Ron Del Kennels...the term Pet quality distingushed from show quality... like a dark coat...etc. My contract guarantees my receipt of AKC papers within 90 days. Period. Thank you to each of you who took the time to write. I am led in the right direction. As for Natalie'd Yorkies...I have now read the negatives...I just never know if it is true..competitors with no scruples etc..anything pisted online should be taken with some caution..even posts to my dilemma which couod come from a persin with a vested interest....I'm just saying.... I received additional texts from the breeder and have to choose which way to deal with this. Thank you again.

Please let us know how it turns out it might help others. There are re flags you can see on her site without needing to hear other peoples stories though.

gemy · 07-30-2014, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcleancobalt

I read the contract we signed....not the contract online...as that will be the one which controls. Definition of terms is important...and the writer of the contract bears that burden. For instance...when I bought Wolfy from Ron Del Kennels...the term Pet quality distingushed from show quality... like a dark coat...etc. My contract guarantees my receipt of AKC papers within 90 days. Period. Thank you to each of you who took the time to write. I am led in the right direction. As for Natalie'd Yorkies...I have now read the negatives...I just never know if it is true..competitors with no scruples etc..anything pisted online should be taken with some caution..even posts to my dilemma which couod come from a persin with a vested interest....I'm just saying.... I received additional texts from the breeder and have to choose which way to deal with this. Thank you again.

Well then if you have a valid contract, you can take your case to the AKC. You will have to submit proof. But guarantees receipt of AKC papers, hum, well I can send those to you on a Limited Registration basis with in 90 days, and still you won't be able to register any litter bred by this dog.

mcleancobalt · 07-30-2014, 09:18 PM

I received the telephone number of an official to contact here - and the AKC returned my phone call. Before any of that - I am still going to give the breeder a chance to do the right thing. Because I think everyone deserves the chance to make good on their business obligations before turning involving officials....this may be a misunderstanding. I now see the "flags"....but have requested her attorney's contact information so we can communicate. I think the registration of a litter and involvement of AKC is critical with our dogs, to ensure against birth defects and defects known to our breed (i.e. liver shunt). Wolfgang was sold to me with all precautions by Ron-Del, because he was so small - I even had to enter an agreement he would go nowhere near my pool. That's how much they loved their puppies. So good breeders do exist. People also have honest misunderstandings. My hope in mankind is fading in so many areas...I hope this turns out to be a fixable misunderstanding. On an official note - I will keep the forum updated on all that I learn officially - although you all are clearly the experts. Like I would not blink at a business having a paypal link.....I never even thought of that. And I did "buy the breeder" first, or so I thought. I have not received her attorney's info. yet, but I am sure I will. I will apprise you of the outcome - and most importantly on the development of my wonderful little Axel. He is the apple of my eye. Thank you Yorkie mommies and daddys. My daughter has decided she will just have 1 yorkie instead of the house full of her own litter she hoped for. I really liked Rose and her set up (although I don't know what to look for like you guys do)....I hope all turns out to be cool.

07-29-2014, 05:36 PM	#1
mcleancobalt Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Suburb of L.A. Posts: 12	HELP....Breeder Rose Hanson My Itty Bitty Yorkies Help.....On Feb. 19, 2014, my beloved Wolfgang died suddenly. He was a small Yorkie, and the love of our lives. He was 9 years old. I was so grief stricken that my hubby suggested I buy another Yorkie...I found a local breeder - Rose Hanson in Sun Valley California. Her website is myittybittyyorkies.com. I got our second Yorkie Axel in April. He was five months old. I paid $1500.00, $500 or more less, because he had allegedly been returned by the previous purchaser who did not have the time to deal with 2 new yorkies. We discovered within days that he had a skin infection which she said was ringworm. The breeder sent him home with treatment for giardia and I went back to her for ringworm shampoo and ointment. I took him to our vet, had his skin tested and it was not ringworm. The doctor gave me different medication (for a bacterial infection) and it cleared up. The breeder refused to pay for the vet bills, but I am a lawyer and was actually happy my husband wasn't going to force me to duke it out in court. I get tired of people suing people. I specifically purchased Axel un-neutered, so we can breed him, and my daughter was going to buy a female (for us....and not for a business). I contacted "natalies yorkies" on Rose's website to see if she had a female. In the meantime - I still have not received Axel's AKC papers. I received a text from Rose stating I purchased Axel as a "pet only" - and later a text saying she was waiting for proof he was neutered to send me his papers. Completely false. I am heartbroken because a) I trusted her; and b) I was willing to absorb vet bills she would have been responsible for because I get sick and tired of people being dishonest and having to hail people into court. Today, I was referred to the agency which licenses dog breeders - her name and address were on file and they said she is not registered nor licensed as a breeder. Can this be true? She has a website in California and at least 8 dogs....does this mean Axel cannot get AKC papers? I am hopeful the agency is wrong. My first baby - Wolfgang - came from Ron-Del Kennels in Oregon. Everyone knows they were stand up - and loved loved loved Yorkies. They were true to the breed and integrity. Does anyone know what agency I contact as a consumer? I am hopeful this is all some mix up......if you cannot trust people when buying a Yorkie then what is this world coming too. I am again heartbroken.

07-29-2014, 05:52 PM	#2
ChibiLuv and molliluv too! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Irving TX, USA Posts: 1,619	Please neuter this dog. Any breeder that specializes in teacups is not reputable. A good breeder would make sure any dog used for breeding was in the hands of an experienced shower. Akc has yorkies between 4-7 pounds, to breed smaller than this would not be recognized as quality by their standards. You got a backyard breeder, someone who is mostly concerned with money. Please have your daughter do her research as well, their is a section about what 'red flags' to look for when choosing a breeder. I hope our pup is well, many 'teacups' have health issues. __________________ Teapot Club Member

07-29-2014, 05:57 PM	#3
ChibiLuv and molliluv too! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Irving TX, USA Posts: 1,619	http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/fea...ead-first.html __________________ Teapot Club Member

07-29-2014, 06:18 PM	#5
gemy YT 2000 Club Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Huntsville,Ont,Canaada Posts: 12,335 Blog Entries: 2	I would look at the puppy lemon laws for your State. Just google them and they will come up. What does your contract and or bill of sale say in respects to breeding rights? No breeder I know will sell a puppy without a contract. And it is very common that AKC breeders will withhold registration paperwork until proof of neutering. Some things that you can do. Contact the AKC and see if she is a breeder of merit, and or if there have been complaints lodged against her. Contact the National Breed club www.ytca.org to see if she is a breeder member. And then ask if she is a member in good standing. THis here is from Rose Hansons purchase sale agreement: All puppies are sold as pets with limited registation, akc papers will be held back until purchaser provides Rose Hanson with proof of spay or neuter cetificate from the Vet. Spay and Neuter contract may be attached So if you signed this well you are the lawyer, to my simple mind that means you agreed to the terms as clearly stated above. In terms of breeding any dog it is truly something you do really need to research prior to jumping into this activity. Also please note that you will not be able to register this litter unless and until you get a written agreement with this breeder, that this puppy can be used for breeding, then she will fill out the paperwork for open registration. __________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018

07-29-2014, 06:20 PM	#7
Maximo ♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 25,041	Did you sign a contract with her when you purchased Axel? It is very common for breeders to sell pups on spay/neuter conditions. I had to provide proof of neutering to receive Max's AKC papers (which I then had to complete to register with AKC). To find out if Axel can be registered with AKC, contact AKC to find out if Axel's parents and the litter were registered. If he were my pup, I would simply be thankful that he is now healthy. __________________ Kristin, Max and Teddy

07-29-2014, 06:04 PM	#4
Lolasmom1211 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 664	I think there are lots of threads on Natalie's Yorkies, also. Please, please do your research before buying another pup. Good luck!

07-29-2014, 06:18 PM	#6
shelbysmom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,394	I just read her purchase agreement online. Did you?

07-29-2014, 06:29 PM	#8
gemy YT 2000 Club Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Huntsville,Ont,Canaada Posts: 12,335 Blog Entries: 2	What agency that licenses dog breeders? What is its name? Maybe that agency is unique to SoCal, don't know. There are how-ever new APHIS rules that now require hobby breeders who have 4 or more breeding females and sells even one dog over the internet to secure a USDA license. This is Federal Law, not state or local county law. Your local county might have county rules or laws covering breeders as well that operate in your county. So she could be in non-compliance with one or both county Law and or Federal Law. How-ever that is un-likely to help you secure her co-operation to allow you to breed this dog, if you report her to local and or Federal Authorities. Once again I am not a lawyer, but surely as you are, you have quick access to County/State and Federal law. __________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018

07-29-2014, 06:38 PM	#9
Lovetodream88 Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md Posts: 23,247	I'm so sorry both those breeders you mentioned are not reputable breeders so not only should people never buy from them but should certainly not breed there dogs. Also they have tiny yorkies and a female under 5 pounds should not be bred. If you are truely interested in breeding you really need to find a reputable breeder earn there trust, let them mentor you and see if you can breed one of there dogs. There is so much more to breeding then putting two dogs together you have to know there background and lines to make sure there has been no health issues that run in them, there is also special genetic testing that can't be done by a regular vet, the female should not be under 5 pounds and you have to realize it's not easy and if you miss even a small sign that the female is in distress you could lose her and or the pups. There is also times the mom will reject the pups or what if you lose the mom and then you have to do everything the mom dog does like feed every two hours, clean them, keep them warm, and stimulate them to potty. It will also definitely change your male. In a way it's a blessing you were drawn to this site before you bred. __________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart!

07-29-2014, 07:05 PM	#10
megansmomma Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: S. W. Suburbs of Chicago, IL Posts: 12,235	Talk about jumping from the pot into the fire.....you actually wanted to buy a puppy from Natalie's Yorkie's to breed. Have you tried to do a Google search to check the reputation of either of these people? All you need to do is type Natalie's Yorkies into a search and all types of bad things come up. __________________ “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” Mark Twain

07-29-2014, 08:03 PM	#11
Yorkiemom1 Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 9,462	Well........I think everything that can be said about this, has been said. Did you sign a contract with this lady? I go over my contracts with my new owners, line by line, across the table, eye to eye....all questions answered. I even ask almost after every sentence, "Is there anything you do not understand so far?" I hope you will say this breeder did the same thing with you....but regardless, you know as a lawyer, you read the contract as it was written, no changes made, then she has that very clearly in her contract that she sells pet only. I am sorry you have run into problems with this purchase. Good luck with your possible venture into breeding. But I would advise you to get in with a bunch of show breeders, learn who of the group is reputable (Yes there are less than reputable show breeders out there, but hanging around the show circuits you will find out who is who...)find a line of dogs that you really think are exactly what you want to reproduce, and see if you can purchase a dog from one of these people for breeding stock. This dog will const you consdierably more than $1500.00-$2000.00, so do not be surprised.

07-30-2014, 09:18 PM	#15
mcleancobalt Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Suburb of L.A. Posts: 12	I received the telephone number of an official to contact here - and the AKC returned my phone call. Before any of that - I am still going to give the breeder a chance to do the right thing. Because I think everyone deserves the chance to make good on their business obligations before turning involving officials....this may be a misunderstanding. I now see the "flags"....but have requested her attorney's contact information so we can communicate. I think the registration of a litter and involvement of AKC is critical with our dogs, to ensure against birth defects and defects known to our breed (i.e. liver shunt). Wolfgang was sold to me with all precautions by Ron-Del, because he was so small - I even had to enter an agreement he would go nowhere near my pool. That's how much they loved their puppies. So good breeders do exist. People also have honest misunderstandings. My hope in mankind is fading in so many areas...I hope this turns out to be a fixable misunderstanding. On an official note - I will keep the forum updated on all that I learn officially - although you all are clearly the experts. Like I would not blink at a business having a paypal link.....I never even thought of that. And I did "buy the breeder" first, or so I thought. I have not received her attorney's info. yet, but I am sure I will. I will apprise you of the outcome - and most importantly on the development of my wonderful little Axel. He is the apple of my eye. Thank you Yorkie mommies and daddys. My daughter has decided she will just have 1 yorkie instead of the house full of her own litter she hoped for. I really liked Rose and her set up (although I don't know what to look for like you guys do)....I hope all turns out to be cool.