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12-05-2012, 11:41 AM | #1 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Health concerns for Yorkies There are many places here and there you can find this information. But I wanted to post yet again some concerns our beloved breed has. This listing is where you can go to check for many of the health tests the breeder "says" they have done. If their dogs are not posted on the reputable health sites; this is a big warning. In the simplest terms if your dog has passed the tests why not post them? It truly aches my heart to read of all the Yorkie pups here who have or are suffering from these problems, and yet the owner was presumably unaware that this could happen. In relative order of frequency in the Yorkie 1. Luxating Patella or loose knees. The bane of most toy breeds!. Can be mild ie a grade one, or moderate to severe Grades 3/4. The higher grades usually require surgery. That cost alone is anywhere from $2000 to $4500 depending on the complexity of the repair required. / All breeding pairs should have an LP evaluation and be free of LP. This will be shown on the health database CHIC.ORG 2. Retained baby teeth. Usually will need to be surgically removed, often done at the time of neutering. This can/will increase the cost of the surgery. Prices vary a whole lot by vet. 3. Hip Dysplasia and or Leggs Perthes. Currently on the rise. An FHO surgery is again somewhere in the neighbourhood of LP surgery. Breeding Pairs should have Xrays done and submitted to Orthopedic Foundation for Animals for evaluation and be clear of hip disease. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals 4. Liver shunt and or Liver Disease. Quite prevalent in the breed. Extrahepatic shunts require surgery and again depending on the complexity surgery can range anywhere from $1500-$3000+ dollars. 5. PRA - Progressive Retinal Atrophy. Breeding pairs should be examined yearly by a Board certified opthamologist and be registered on the CERF data base. cerf.org - 6. Hyperuricosuria and related Bladder Problems. ie Bladder Stones. This is the one DNA test available that breeders can see if their breeding stock is a carrier, clear, or affected. 7. Allergies/Skin Problems/Digestion problems. These are all variable. Many yorkies can be fussy eaters, have allergies to different things, and have gas etc. 8. CT or Collapsing Trachea. Neither breeding pair should suffer from this disease. evaluation by vet recommended. As you can see from this list the concerns are many.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
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12-05-2012, 12:13 PM | #2 |
Don't Litter Spay&Neuter Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal
Posts: 9,874
| Great post! All puppy mills & most (if not all) backyard breeders DO NOT perform these important tests on their breeding stock. Buyer beware! It would be ideal to ask your breeder if the parents had these tests done. A reputable breeder will answer YES to all the above!
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12-05-2012, 02:42 PM | #3 |
and Shelby's too Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Millbrook, AL
Posts: 7,842
| Great list. Thank you for compiling it all and putting it in one place!!
__________________ Terri, proud mom to Mandie & Shelby-Dale |
12-05-2012, 02:53 PM | #4 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY
Posts: 6,582
| Thanks so much for posting this. I kind of cringe when I see people saying to "go with your heart" in choosing a puppy when there are so many heart breaks just waiting to happen if someone chooses to buy a puppy from a breeder that does not take the time and expense to make sure they are producing sound stock. Maybe YT could try to find a way to create a thread that is more easily accessible to the public that will clearly explain why it is important to research the breed and the breeders before buying a puppy. It seems that people feel that it is not necessary to check into the quality of the dogs if they are only buying a pet. |
12-05-2012, 03:13 PM | #5 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 1,637
| Great post Gemy. Wish i had this info when i got my baby ziggy. But im so geatful to have it when i add a second
__________________ Xolani mommy to Ziggy and Toby The two loves of my life |
02-16-2013, 10:11 AM | #6 |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Reading, PA, USA
Posts: 258
| This is a great post, and one I was looking for, as every one says make sure the breeder does health checks, and then aside from mentioning bile acid tests, says little to nothing more on it. If I can add, there is a genetic test for PRA-prcd. This is Progressive Retinal Atrophy - progressive rod cone degeneration. This test determines if a dog is clear, carrier or affected. While an opthamologist can determine if the dogs have an eye condition for CERF, only a genetic test can determine if a dog carries it, or is genetically clear of this form of PRA, as a carrier will test the same way a clear will in any kind of eye exam. Interestingly, Opti-gen recommends this test for yorkies, but Vetgen doesn't. A good breeder should have his dogs CHICed at the minimum, which stands for Canine Health Information Center. However, just because a dog has been CHICed, doesn't mean that the dog is normal or healthy, since the dog can get a CHIC number after failing every test. All the CHIC number means is that the breeder has had that dog CERFed and OFA'd for Patellar Luxation, and released the results to the public. Doesn't mean the dog isn't going blind and can barely walk, so it's up to the buyer to take the time and look up the dogs CHIC number and see what the results are. Also, and this bothers me... Other important tests are only OPTIONAL. I have no idea why bile acid testing would be considered optional... especially since as I understand it, it's the breed club that comes up with what they feel is required for CHIC within their breed. One would think that bile acid testing would be required, not optional, but there you go. Other optional tests are OFA hips, OFA Legg-Calve-Perths, Autoimmune Thyroiditis, (if I am interpreting what I read correctly), and Cornell DNA. They do not mention OFA elbows, though randomly looking at some dogs pages, they will record the elbows if they're done, or any other type of thyroid testing should be done, and if so, what one(s). They didn't mention elbows, but I have seen yorkies on the CHIC site with their elbows OFA'd. Also recorded on the CHIC site is cardiac results should someone choose to get that done, though I don't know what the prevalence of heart disease in yorkies is, and so how necessary cardiac testing would be. Perhaps one of the breeders could chime in. This isn't even mentioned as an optional, but I have seen it recorded on different dogs pages, so it IS one that is recorded. I believe this is done through a cardiac specialist, and through an echocardiogram, but someone else can correct me if I am wrong. I had fun looking through vetgen's DNA tests, and one that popped up for yorkies is the DNA test for primary lens luxation. (PLL). I actually have not seen this mentioned on this site, but I also admit I have not specifically LOOKED for it. Nor have I seen it mentioned as a possible problem on reputable breeder sites. I don't know if it means it's not something that anyone is looking for in the breed (but why then would there be a genetic test for it??) or if it's something that's rare, (but again, if so, why is there a genetic test for it??) or what the deal with that would be. I am assuming that it's something like PRA, if it is present, it will be detected during a CERF, however, if it is something that is genetic, a dog that CERFs clear could still be a carrier. It'd would be great if again, the breeders could chime in on this. This is all I have been able to find. It may be way too long, but the more informed the better, one would think. For sure, all of these potential issues aren't going to be present in every dog, or in every line of dog. Some of these are far more important than others. The OP's post in order of relevancy is pretty good, I think. I'm just tossing some other things out there based on what I was looking for, because again, puppy buyers are told to see what health tests the breeders have done on their dogs, but then don't really tell us what we should be looking for. ETA: OH!! How could I forget!! The greatest thing about CHIC is that if you're lucky, you can track back parents, grandparents, half sibs to grandparents, half sibs to parents and half sibs to your dog and see how the whole line is holding up genetically, or if any concern has popped up. This is, of course, of the owners release the information, lol. But if they do, you get an even better idea of the genetic health of your dog and your dogs family, which is awesome I think.
__________________ When there is no ultimate authority, we must gather as much information as possible and decide for ourself what we believe. ~Teresa Ford Last edited by Belle Noir; 02-16-2013 at 10:14 AM. Reason: adding stuff |
02-16-2013, 10:13 AM | #7 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: montana
Posts: 2,945
| good post |
02-16-2013, 10:38 AM | #8 |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| great post! It should be a sticky.
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! |
02-16-2013, 10:40 AM | #9 | |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Excellent post; another example of why I love this site so much! I did not know about the Lens at all - I will research it when I have more time. The more genetic tests we have the Better in my book. Especially if they can be done when pups are very young. For example as a breeder for my breed I can DNA swab pups at one or two days old; find out their status as a carrier, affected or clear for the hyperuricosuria gene. I can also insist on clear status from any dog I might want to purchase for my breeding program. If I breed clear to clear, no pups of mine should have the genetic defect at all! That is very reassuring for me. I just wish we could sort through hip and elbow dysplasia! Get a genetic test for same Quote:
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
02-16-2013, 10:43 AM | #10 |
♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas
Posts: 22,140
| Great post. Could you tell us where to go to see what testing should be done to rule these things out, if there are tests for some of them?
__________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis |
02-16-2013, 11:20 AM | #11 |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Reading, PA, USA
Posts: 258
| I have gotten this information from everywhere. I did a search for "health tests" here on this site, and that is actually how I found this thread. I was about to make a post asking what tests buyers should be looking for. Since this thread was here already, there was no point in making another... I followed links from the YTCA site to find the CHIC site. I went to Opti-gen's site, and and vetgen's site to see what genetic tests they had, and on vetgen, I just went through the list of them, because it was just so fascinating to see the different tests for different things availble, and that was how I found the hyperuricosuria gene test, even though it wasn't listed under yorkie at all. Nor was the PLL test, but when you looked at the PLL page, on the right, it listed Yorkies. I AM a little leery using a commercial company to see what genetic tests THEY recommend, since these tests make them money, so they're not likely to be objective. Call me cynical, but I think they would recommend as many tests as they feel they can get away with... Like PLL.. Vetgen lists it as a yorkie test, but I had never before heard of that being an issue in yorkies... I wish there was a gene test for HD and ED... but since there are so many factors involved, I doubt there will ever be one Finding this information is probably the hardest thing. I was actually thinking of calling up every CoE breeder and asking them what genetic tests they do.. But there isn't any one place you can go to to see what tests to look for, except the CHIC site, and again, it bothers me that they only require LP and CERF and BAT is optional. Having a site that has a comprehensive list of health and genetic MUST tests would be great. Until then, though, we have gemy's awesome list (that should be stickied).
__________________ When there is no ultimate authority, we must gather as much information as possible and decide for ourself what we believe. ~Teresa Ford |
02-16-2013, 11:23 AM | #12 |
Donating YT 18K Club Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Yorkie Zoo
Posts: 34,152
| I submitted for stickification
__________________ Lisa, Mom to Curri Bee Vindi Loo Tikka Masala Sugar Baby |
02-16-2013, 11:36 AM | #13 |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | This is an awesome thread...yes, it should either be a sticky, or in the Library (at the very least). Gemy, based upon the response posts you received, do you want to add anything / edit before we put in Library or stickify it? If you have edits, please copy your initial post - edit it, then paste into a response....and let me know when finished, if you could.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° |
02-16-2013, 11:56 AM | #14 |
♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas
Posts: 22,140
| Gail, I was wondering if we always have a corresponding health test list for each of these conditions with any corresponding certifications that we can ask to see on the dam/sire and grandparents, etc., or a signed/dated vet clearance for those things we need checked that aren't tested. Or is my question so muddled as to be obscure? In other words, how will we know the parents and ancestors did not have these conditions other than the breeder's word? Do they show you something to prove the parents, grandparents, ancestors had none of those conditions?
__________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis |
02-16-2013, 01:08 PM | #15 | |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Quote:
My answer is going to be long; so I warn you in advance. First in the realm of testing anything on breeding dogs, it is relatively young here in North America. Maybe 30 yrs old, and maybe 15 yrs old where you began to see a significant volumne of breeders testing and posting health results on the reputable third party organizations that were set up to record health data on dogs. One such is OFFA, and another is PENNHip. The CHIC datasite is relatively recent, and essentially amalgamates info from OFFA, and will add in other testing that you have done for your dog. Like Hyperuricosuria genetic test, thyroid testing, BAER, Heart et al. The CHIC database records what is the recommended tests as they aare given from the National Clubs what the Club recommends for their breed to get a CHIC number. So grandparents and great parents, if tested and submitted could be on the CHIC or OFFA or PENN Hip. But for some things what is key are the siblings from the breeding pair you want to have a puppy from. things such as Hip and Elbow Dysplasia where-in horizontal pedigree seems to be a better foreteller then vertical pedigree. Now at best you will get a "spotty record" and most especially for Rare Breeds who by their very nature don't have a long term history within North America. If you go onto CHIC I don't know right now what number of Yorkies have CHIC'd numbers but the last time I checked was a pretty low number. For sure great grandparents history will likely be only anecdotal. I read a post somewhere that said there should be no LS evident in 10 generations back. Wow. How would one really know that? Given that BATS testing probably wasn't even around 30 yrs ago, and that is only 4 or so generations back. This is what breeders deal with all the time. No concrete evidence back say beyond grand-parents level. this is one reason why Genetic Tests are so so very important. Because you can do that Test and know for sure the status of any puppy, and make intelligent breeding decisions from that information. So I will say; that all these tests add up to a lot of money. Which is not to say don't do it. But the breeders should be screening at least for the big three health issues in Yorkies. One of the biggest is LS and there is no genetic test yet. But there are BATS; and all breeding dogs should be screened for their BATS prior to breeding. Why it is only recommended on the YTCA site? All I can say is that there is probably a lot of dissenting opinions on the usefullness of the BATS test, maybe even its' accuracy, et al. For LP in Europe, and I would need to check exactly which countries; LP! dogs are allowed to be bred. And yet again we don't have and may never have a genetic test for LP, we rely on Vet examination to grade the LP. Certainly at level one, there is no XRAY to confirm or deny the existence of same. And no independent board to review those Xray results. Then there are the detractors of the evaluators of any system for grading Xrays. I did tell you this would be long! Breeders may not have the actual documentation for great grand parents or even grand parents. At this point in time, I think it is reasonable to expect the breeder to know to the best of their ability to know, the grand-parents and then the great parents health lineage. It will be some hodge-podge of maybe one tested for this, one tested for that, etc. But what the breeders do have control over is what health testing they do before breeding on their dog/bitch, and to select a healthy mate with health clearances.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
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