Need advice - possible unplanned breeding

[WalnutHill]

Okay, this is going to be a long story.

As most of you know, I help out with my dad's Yorkies (he breeds pet Yorkies). Anyway, a little over a year ago we sold a female to a gal in North Carolina. She flew out, met us, and took her puppy home with her. A couple of months ago, she contacted us again about a playmate for her girl, and we had a male, half brother to her girl, that we thought would be a perfect match for the family. The male was already 7 months old, a real sweetie and I knew that Daisy (the female Yorkie) and Wyatt (the boy) would get along great.

As soon as he got to his new home he was neutered as planned (we sold both dogs on limited registration, plus, Wyatt and Daisy have the same father and their mothers are sisters - though the mothers are unrelated to the father). For whatever reason, Daisy has not been spayed. Anyway - 4 days after his neuter, Wyatt and Daisy apparently tied. Now, I wasn't there, so this is all second-hand infromation. This was on the 12th. The new owner says that Daisy is starting to have some mammary swelling and she thinks she may be pregnant.

Here are my questions-

Is it possible for a male to still be fertile after a neuter - and if so, for how long?

Because of the close line breeding that this mating would create, should the pregnancy be allowed to continue?

If not, what is the time-frame for being able to spay a possibly pregnant female?

[BamaFan121s]

Hmmmm....I dunno. I know they can be fertile for a while after the neuter, but 4 days is really a stretch, I think. It's possible that it's a false pregnancy? (Hopefully)

If it were me, I would err on the side of caution and have her spayed. (I mean, they were planning to anyway, right?)

In addition to their close linage not being 'ideal,' it would be very risky for them to breed with know preparation and real know-how.

Tough call.

[Sunnie]

It is my understanding that a male would still be able to impregnate a female right after a nueter. I am unsure about for how long after, but I think it is something like 2 weeks. I would spay as soon as possible. Pregnant or not... It will cost a little more for the spaying but that could be the LEAST of the expenses. Close line breeding like that should only be done with the BEST of the BEST of the breed, in my opinion. Close line breeding with pet quality yorkies could potentially bring out the very worst in them. Good luck and I hope some of the more experienced breeders can help out here better than I can. I am curious to learn as well.

[WalnutHill]

Thanks Bama. I am really hoping that this is a false pregnancy.

I jsut thought we had thought about this carefully and had everything worked out so that there wouldn't be something like this happen.

Part of my worry is that, the new owner is going to want her female to have these puppies, even though the "parents" are so closely related. I mean, I don't know for certain, but my guess is that is how she is going to feel.

I am so worried, even if this were the perfect breeding pair, because she has no experience with breeding, etc, and I am too far away to help.

Ergh. I am just so out of my mind over this.

[BamaFan121s]

Errrrg...yeah, I can understand that this would be driving you nuts. It sounds like they were *trying* to do the right thing. I hope all works out for the best. Their lack of experience would be the biggest concern, IMO.

[Mardelin]

Here's hoping that it is false pregnacy. I would check with your vet, if it is possible. It does take 6 months for hormones to completely disapate after a spay/nueter. Somehow I don't think there is a chance that a pregnacy occurred. That is unless they performed a vasectomy instead of castration.

What you described is not line breeding, but inbreeding.

I'll try to explain the implications of inbreeding. Inbreeding is not something that is encouraged, however there have been very experienced breeders that have done it. It is a way to find out if you have any genetic unsoundness in your line. Any fault you have, you're locking it in, just as you are locking in good traits. In other words, it can turn out just fine, or if you have any genetic problems they have a greater chance of showing up.

[WalnutHill]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Here's hoping that it is false pregnacy. I would check with your vet, if it is possible. It does take 6 months for hormones to completely disapate after a spay/nueter. Somehow I don't think there is a chance that a pregnacy occurred. That is unless they performed a vasectomy instead of castration.

What you described is not line breeding, but inbreeding.

I'll try to explain the implications of inbreeding. Inbreeding is not something that is encouraged, however there have been very experienced breeders that have done it. It is a way to find out if you have any genetic unsoundness in your line. Any fault you have, you're locking it in, just as you are locking in good traits. In other words, it can turn out just fine, or if you have any genetic problems they have a greater chance of showing up.

Well, inbreeding then. Whatever you want to call it, the only thing my dad has ever done is total outcrossing, never breeding any dogs that are related in at least the last 4 generations. So, not something I have any expereince with.

Fingers crossed here, for sure. I am hoping she is jusat going in to her first heat, which is why her "mommy" noticed the swelling, etc.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Well, inbreeding then. Whatever you want to call it, the only thing my dad has ever done is total outcrossing, never breeding any dogs that are related in at least the last 4 generations. So, not something I have any expereince with.

Fingers crossed here, for sure. I am hoping she is jusat going in to her first heat, which is why her "mommy" noticed the swelling, etc.

Good Luck

[WalnutHill]

I will keep everyone posted!


I was honestly hoping someone would say "nope, not at all possible" so I'd know for sure. But, I guess impossible situations turn out to be possible sometimes anyway. I have heard some strange breeding stories.


Thanks for all the help, everyone. Pray that she's not pregnant.

I am going to go ahead and prepare the owner as if Daisy were pregnant. Though, I have never walked anyone through it before. I was hoping that I'd have another 10 years to prepare for a situation like this.

[WalnutHill]

I will keep everyone posted!


I was honestly hoping someone would say "nope, not at all possible" so I'd know for sure. But, I guess impossible situations turn out to be possible sometimes anyway. I have heard some strange breeding stories.


Thanks for all the help, everyone. Pray that she's not pregnant.

I am going to go ahead and prepare the owner as if Daisy were pregnant. Though, I have never walked anyone through it before. I was hoping that I'd have another 10 years to prepare for a situation like this.

[YorkieMom6]

I will most definitely keep her in my thoughts and pray she is not pregnant. Our thoughts are with you as well!

[yorkiegirl2]

I have had girls go through heats without being bred who had mammary swelling that lasted for about a month before the swelling went down.
Hopefully this is what's going on with her girl.

[YorkieRose]

You can avoid this problem in the future by asking for a vet certificate that the first pet is S/N before selling a second..

This is a full sibling breeding...same father and mother are full sisters..mother and her sister have the same genes..so it does not make it a half bro/sister..it would be best to have the female in question spayed asap.
Lesson learned.

[Brooklynn]

Why not go ahead and spay the bitch? That way she won't have babies anyway....You can spay the bitch and that is what I would recommend...

Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Why not go ahead and spay the bitch? That way she won't have babies anyway....You can spay the bitch and that is what I would recommend...


Donna

Hey Donna, How you doing? How is your mom?

Mary