Would this be line breeding??

[adorame]

I do not breed but have a breeding Question.

I was wondering if a breeder breeds a male dog that has the same grand father as the female but Sire and Dame have different parents is that a form of line breeding?? Are they not too closely related to worry about the health of the future pups? I am having trouble understanding this.

[~Yorkie~Mommy~]

Yes that is line breeding and in my personal opinion I wouldn't breed them if they were my dogs.

I think of it like this, if me and my husband had the same grandfather would I marry him...........I think NOT LOLOLOL

Genes carry on for generation to gerneration....

[adorame]

Originally Posted by ~Yorkie~Mommy~

Yes that is line breeding and in my personal opinion I wouldn't breed them if they were my dogs.

I think of it like this, if me and my husband had the same grandfather would I marry him...........I think NOT LOLOLOL

Genes carry on for generation to gerneration....

That is what I was thinking! I had told my friend that I thought it might be and I wouldn't want to have to worry about the puppy having health issues. She was going to get a little Pom that has the same grandfather on both sides of his pedigree. I tried to tell her that is why all those Royal people became sickly, I was sure it happens in the animal world too! I told her about reading a book on breeding and seeing something on line breeding and how things can go wrong...

Thank you for clearing this up for me!

[~Yorkie~Mommy~]

Originally Posted by adorame

That is what I was thinking! I had told my friend that I thought it might be and I wouldn't want to have to worry about the puppy having health issues. She was going to get a little Pom that has the same grandfather on both sides of his pedigree. I tried to tell her that is why all those Royal people became sickly, I was sure it happens in the animal world too! I told her about reading a book on breeding and seeing something on line breeding and how things can go wrong...

Thank you for clearing this up for me!

No problem glad I could help...

[C C Kent]

If the grandfather is an excellent representation of the breed and carries no congenital defect, the breeding is not too close at all. If not for line breeding the type and structure begins to fall apart. It depends on whether the breeder has the knowledge and experience to properly evaluate the common ancestry. In line breeding favorable traits are said to be "set" but unfavorable traits are as well. All in all there are fewer unknowns with proper line breeding than with straight outcross. I personally prefer that the common ancestor not be in the same generation on both sides. JMHO

[MindieRose]

Originally Posted by C C Kent

If the grandfather is an excellent representation of the breed and carries no congenital defect, the breeding is not too close at all. If not for line breeding the type and structure begins to fall apart. It depends on whether the breeder has the knowledge and experience to properly evaluate the common ancestry. In line breeding favorable traits are said to be "set" but unfavorable traits are as well. All in all there are fewer unknowns with proper line breeding than with straight outcross. I personally prefer that the common ancestor not be in the same generation on both sides. JMHO

Exactly. And dogs are not people. In the wild there is "line breeding" all the time. Animals dont walk up and ask another who their grandpa or grandma was before they mate. As long as this is done responsibly and you educate yourself on it, it's acceptable.

[wildcard]

My concern would not be "is this a line-breeding" but what is it a line-breeding to or of. If it is a dog with many more defects than advantages, or a dog with a disease or medical condition that is hereditary, I'd want to avoid it and would certainly not want to concentrate its potential genetic influence. But if it is a dog whose benefits far outweigh any negatives and it is healthy and has produced healthy offspring, I'd like to see it appearing in multiples in a pedigree. When you line-breed you are concentrating the genetic influence of an ancestor, so the question is whether that is a pro or a con. Also the mode of heritability is also important, especially when talking about health conditions. Unfortunately there are very few diseases for which we have a good understanding of how they are actually inherited-- is a dominant trait, or recessive, is it polygenic or even familial? Add into this that diseases present in several breeds often have different modes of inheritance, like PRA for example. Outcrossing without having knowledge as to the health of the ancestors of the dog to whom you are outcrossing to can be far more dangerous than line-breeding (if you have good information on those ancestors) because along with the good things you are bringing in to your line you might be opening the door to some very bad things as well.

So really the question is more one of who that grandsire of the pom is, and what he has produced... not linebreeding is bad versus outcrosses are good. Myself, I would not operate a breeding program primarily based on outcrosses, I'd never know what ingredients I was throwing into the soup with that method.

[adorame]

See I knew if I asked My confusing question I would learn more from you all Thank you so much for your replies! i sure have learned alot about line breeding now that I started to read more on it. I went to the library and got a few books on breeding today just to know more for the heck of it My husband said I have all sorts of Useless knowledge filling up my brain but when I don't know about something I sure so like to find out about it!

From what I have read, line breeding is OK if done right and as long as the breeder is experienced with her lines. A breeder just starting out would not really know her lines yet, IMHO. This is the first mating of these two dogs that share a grandfather from what I was told she doesn't own the grandpa or parents of the Sire and Dame she just has the Sire and Dame. I think it would be risky for someone just staring out at breeding I guess, but for a more experience breeder that knew what they were doing and knew the lines, than I would feel better getting a dog from them.

[wildcard]

If the breeder has a mentor guiding her that would be good to know. If it is just someone doing it without any thought or study then I would be wary of getting a puppy from them line-bred or not

If you really get interested, an awesome book is Claudia Orlandi's ABCs of Dog Breeding (she also does a seminar with that title). I think it is self-published though, but you can get it through her site if you google her name. I breed my dogs only on a very limited basis but I try to digest as much info as I can about it, from books, seminars and experience breeders. Of course I tend to get a bit obsessive so I also end up doing research on all sorts of things I never intend to do myself, just for the sake of knowing a little more about something! So you can tell your husband you are not the only one who gets curious about stuff they don't do themselves!

[gardenyorkies]

Brandy it is line-breeding...You are doubling up on the genes of the grandparent and it should not be done without knowledge about that particular grandparent...It should be a dog of great quality because many of the genetic qualities from that grandparent are going to infleunce the puppies born from that litter...A poor quality grandparent, you are asking for heartache...

[adorame]

Originally Posted by gardenyorkies

Brandy it is line-breeding...You are doubling up on the genes of the grandparent and it should not be done without knowledge about that particular grandparent...It should be a dog of great quality because many of the genetic qualities from that grandparent are going to infleunce the puppies born from that litter...A poor quality grandparent, you are asking for heartache...

My friend moved to Florida 4 years ago and I only talk 2 x a week with her now instead of daily. She was at first going to get a pom from a petstore by her work. I told her NO you want to know the breeder and were this puppy is from. She listened 1/2 to what i told her, but did not research the breeder. I think that she just wanted to HAVE this puppy and would not listen to me on this.

I am not a breeder but just started to read more on it and I also talk to a few breeder of a few different TOY breeds. The one's I know do not Line Breed. From what I gather from my friend she asked about this puppies pedigree and she was told about the grand pa being related to both dogs. Also grand pa is Not a CH. I told her to be prepared since they did not really know the lines to these dogs. She bragged to me that she has more money to spend on hi puppy things because she got him for a steel..$150 not the thousand and so I spent on my AKC puppy I was just trying to help her out. I gave her the link to our YT page and she looked at it last night and she doesnt think she will have any problems with him. I hope not myself.