Line Breeding...How Do You Do It Right? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

TeddyandTiffy · 06-02-2008, 08:50 PM

Experienced Breeders and Show Exhibitors, I'm wanting to learn about Line Breeding. What makes you choose to do Line Breeding? What do you consider when Line Breeding? Who do you breed with in Line Breeding? What are the Pros and Cons of Line Breeding? Can Line Breeding be done safely and the right way? Any info what so ever on Line Breeding would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to learn about Line Breeding. Thanks in advance for any Wisdom on this Subject.

Lee

mypreciouspups · 06-02-2008, 09:02 PM

Interesting question ... I am wanting to also see the replies.. not that I plan on doing this.. but interested in seeing info on this...anne

yorkiekist · 06-03-2008, 12:10 AM

With linebreeding I am trying to set a certain type in my breeding program. I have gone from fair top-lines in my previous breedings to great top-lines in the puppies I am producing now. I used to have mediocre silk and soft coats and now I have very silky coats. Example: Lets say that Ch Alexander Noodle Dog has great structure and has consistantly produced great structure. I will try to double up the genes by breeding a bitch with an Alexander grandfather to an Alexander bred stud. The resulting puppies should have an improvement in structure. You have to be careful in your selection of what lines to double up as you can also double up on faults. This is a brief example. This is also harder to explain this late in the day!!!LOL

topknot · 06-03-2008, 03:08 AM

If you read Ann Seranne's book - The Joy of Breeding Your OWn Show Dog - it gives great examples of top line breeding with photos and their pedigrees of why it worked. One such examole is Ch. Mayfair Barban Verikoko (repeated ancestor Ch. Gaytonglen's Teddy of Mayfair) and Ch. Cede Higgins (repeated ancestor being Ch. Toy Clown of Rusklyn).
You just have to make sure when doing a line breeding that the common ancestor was a great dog - one in quality you want, because you are doubling up on it.
T.

topknot · 06-03-2008, 03:18 AM

Ann Seranne states in pg. 63 - "It should not be necessary to point out that, unless the dog to which one linebreeds is truly an outstanding example of its breed, both physically and genetically, the breeder may be downgrading his stock rather than upgrading it. Linebreeding to a poor specimen can do nothing but produce poor quality puppies, and the more often the breeder returns to that poor specimen, the worse his puppies will become."
" Keeping in mind that a puppy receives approximately 50% of its inheritance from each parent, 25% from each grandparent, 12.5 % from each great grandparent, and so on, we can readily calculate the percentage of genes that a puppy shares with the ancestor to which its dam or sire was linebred."
T.

YorkieRose · 06-03-2008, 04:45 AM

So true..start with the pedigree...you have to build on a good foundation dog.

Sugar's Mom · 06-03-2008, 06:19 AM

my husband has line bred his Beagles every since he started forty years ago. because of this, many champions have come from this line. i will be line breeding also next year.

TeddyandTiffy · 06-03-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

With linebreeding I am trying to set a certain type in my breeding program. I have gone from fair top-lines in my previous breedings to great top-lines in the puppies I am producing now. I used to have mediocre silk and soft coats and now I have very silky coats. Example: Lets say that Ch Alexander Noodle Dog has great structure and has consistantly produced great structure. I will try to double up the genes by breeding a bitch with an Alexander grandfather to an Alexander bred stud. The resulting puppies should have an improvement in structure. You have to be careful in your selection of what lines to double up as you can also double up on faults. This is a brief example. This is also harder to explain this late in the day!!!LOL

Thanks for you Wisdom on this subject and I am I hope learning. Hugs,

Lee

TeddyandTiffy · 06-03-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topknot

If you read Ann Seranne's book - The Joy of Breeding Your OWn Show Dog - it gives great examples of top line breeding with photos and their pedigrees of why it worked. One such examole is Ch. Mayfair Barban Verikoko (repeated ancestor Ch. Gaytonglen's Teddy of Mayfair) and Ch. Cede Higgins (repeated ancestor being Ch. Toy Clown of Rusklyn).
You just have to make sure when doing a line breeding that the common ancestor was a great dog - one in quality you want, because you are doubling up on it.
T.

Thanks so much for your Wisdom on this subject I'm ordering books tonight...This one included if I can find them. This book is what I need to help me learn and if I'm not mistake Tami told me to get it...Isn't there an older copy and a newer copy?? If so which would you all say would be the best to get or should I get them both? Hugs

Lee

TeddyandTiffy · 06-03-2008, 07:14 PM

I'm going to use this as an example to see if I can get this as I wouldn't want to get to close in "Line Breeding" for if I got to close in "Line Breeding" then it would be "In Breeding" wouldn't it?

I am using the percentages Tina (TopKnot) gave I hope you don’t mind but I’m wanting to know if I have the percentages right by each set of ancestors. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

I'm going to use my own Yorkies as an example...Duke is the new Yorkie Puppy I’m thinking about breeding as an example…I’m not doing this just trying to understand the line breeding.

Say I have

My Teddy (Father of my Galahad) and Tiffanie (Mother of my Galahad) (approximately 25% from each grandparent Teddy and Tiffanie would be Duke the males grandparent right??)

and then I have

Galahad (Teddys & Tiffanies son from our 1st litter) and breed

Galahad to Sage (100% different line of Yorkies) (approximately 50% of its inheritance from each parent, Galahad and Sage would be the parents of Duke their puppy right??)

and they have Duke (A Male, that would be Teddys & Tiffanies Grandson right?)

I take Teddys & Tiffanies Grandson Duke from Galahads and Sages' Breeding

and breed him to Sofie or Weezie (Both are Teddys' & Tiffanies Daughters' from our 2nd litter) would that be to close of a Line Breeding?

The great grandparent of Duke the Puppy would be Tiffanies and Teddys parents right? (12.5 % from each great grandparent.)

Now I would I be doubling up on Teddys & Tiffanies qualities or Sage and Galahads????

Have I got this right??? Feel free to let me know your thoughts I want to learn and correct me where I need to be corrected. Hugs to all

Lee

Litllam88 · 06-03-2008, 08:28 PM

Personally, it's just a little too close for me. Basically, you are breeding an Auntie and a Nephew. Twice or three times removed would be better, but that's JMHO. I'm sure there are other breeders who do it closer tho, but not me. You would be more than doubling up on Teddy & Tiffanie, since Duke is their grandson.

I guess if you look at it this way...would you have relations with your nephew or would that be eeewww? If Sophie or Weezie had a pup (with a sire from a different line) and then the pup is bred to Duke, it would be okay. (Second cousins)

You don't have to listen to me...it's just my personal opinion.

Sidney · 06-03-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeddyandTiffy

Thanks so much for your Wisdom on this subject I'm ordering books tonight...This one included if I can find them. This book is what I need to help me learn and if I'm not mistake Tami told me to get it...Isn't there an older copy and a newer copy?? If so which would you all say would be the best to get or should I get them both? Hugs

Lee

If you can get it... the older copy was recommended to me because of the imformation shared in it by Terri Shumski. I don't believe the newer version has her texts and photos. Either copy... it is a really good book

Litllam88 · 06-03-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney

If you can get it... the older copy was recommended to me because of the imformation shared in it by Terri Shumski. I don't believe the newer version has her texts and photos. Either copy... it is a really good book

What year was that published? On Amazon, I only see December 2004.

bchgirl · 06-04-2008, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litllam88

Personally, it's just a little too close for me. Basically, you are breeding an Auntie and a Nephew. Twice or three times removed would be better, but that's JMHO. I'm sure there are other breeders who do it closer tho, but not me. You would be more than doubling up on Teddy & Tiffanie, since Duke is their grandson.

I guess if you look at it this way...would you have relations with your nephew or would that be eeewww? If Sophie or Weezie had a pup (with a sire from a different line) and then the pup is bred to Duke, it would be okay. (Second cousins)

You don't have to listen to me...it's just my personal opinion.

In my reading of line breeding an aunt/nephew or uncle/niece is the preferred combination.

chrislynn5 · 06-04-2008, 05:16 AM

So interesting!!

06-02-2008, 08:50 PM	#1
TeddyandTiffy Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seymour, Indiana Posts: 1,384	Line Breeding...How Do You Do It Right? Experienced Breeders and Show Exhibitors, I'm wanting to learn about Line Breeding. What makes you choose to do Line Breeding? What do you consider when Line Breeding? Who do you breed with in Line Breeding? What are the Pros and Cons of Line Breeding? Can Line Breeding be done safely and the right way? Any info what so ever on Line Breeding would be greatly appreciated as I'm trying to learn about Line Breeding. Thanks in advance for any Wisdom on this Subject. Lee

06-03-2008, 03:08 AM	#4
topknot Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA Posts: 3,787	If you read Ann Seranne's book - The Joy of Breeding Your OWn Show Dog - it gives great examples of top line breeding with photos and their pedigrees of why it worked. One such examole is Ch. Mayfair Barban Verikoko (repeated ancestor Ch. Gaytonglen's Teddy of Mayfair) and Ch. Cede Higgins (repeated ancestor being Ch. Toy Clown of Rusklyn). You just have to make sure when doing a line breeding that the common ancestor was a great dog - one in quality you want, because you are doubling up on it. T. Last edited by topknot; 06-03-2008 at 03:09 AM.

06-03-2008, 04:45 AM	#6
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	breeding So true..start with the pedigree...you have to build on a good foundation dog.

06-03-2008, 07:14 PM	#10
TeddyandTiffy Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seymour, Indiana Posts: 1,384	See If I Have This Right I'm going to use this as an example to see if I can get this as I wouldn't want to get to close in "Line Breeding" for if I got to close in "Line Breeding" then it would be "In Breeding" wouldn't it? I am using the percentages Tina (TopKnot) gave I hope you don’t mind but I’m wanting to know if I have the percentages right by each set of ancestors. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I'm going to use my own Yorkies as an example...Duke is the new Yorkie Puppy I’m thinking about breeding as an example…I’m not doing this just trying to understand the line breeding. Say I have My Teddy (Father of my Galahad) and Tiffanie (Mother of my Galahad) (approximately 25% from each grandparent Teddy and Tiffanie would be Duke the males grandparent right??) and then I have Galahad (Teddys & Tiffanies son from our 1st litter) and breed Galahad to Sage (100% different line of Yorkies) (approximately 50% of its inheritance from each parent, Galahad and Sage would be the parents of Duke their puppy right??) and they have Duke (A Male, that would be Teddys & Tiffanies Grandson right?) I take Teddys & Tiffanies Grandson Duke from Galahads and Sages' Breeding and breed him to Sofie or Weezie (Both are Teddys' & Tiffanies Daughters' from our 2nd litter) would that be to close of a Line Breeding? The great grandparent of Duke the Puppy would be Tiffanies and Teddys parents right? (12.5 % from each great grandparent.) Now I would I be doubling up on Teddys & Tiffanies qualities or Sage and Galahads???? Have I got this right??? Feel free to let me know your thoughts I want to learn and correct me where I need to be corrected. Hugs to all Lee

06-02-2008, 09:02 PM	#2
mypreciouspups Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Florida/Canada Posts: 5,514	Interesting question ... I am wanting to also see the replies.. not that I plan on doing this.. but interested in seeing info on this...anne

06-03-2008, 12:10 AM	#3
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	With linebreeding I am trying to set a certain type in my breeding program. I have gone from fair top-lines in my previous breedings to great top-lines in the puppies I am producing now. I used to have mediocre silk and soft coats and now I have very silky coats. Example: Lets say that Ch Alexander Noodle Dog has great structure and has consistantly produced great structure. I will try to double up the genes by breeding a bitch with an Alexander grandfather to an Alexander bred stud. The resulting puppies should have an improvement in structure. You have to be careful in your selection of what lines to double up as you can also double up on faults. This is a brief example. This is also harder to explain this late in the day!!!LOL

06-03-2008, 03:18 AM	#5
topknot Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA Posts: 3,787	Ann Seranne states in pg. 63 - "It should not be necessary to point out that, unless the dog to which one linebreeds is truly an outstanding example of its breed, both physically and genetically, the breeder may be downgrading his stock rather than upgrading it. Linebreeding to a poor specimen can do nothing but produce poor quality puppies, and the more often the breeder returns to that poor specimen, the worse his puppies will become." " Keeping in mind that a puppy receives approximately 50% of its inheritance from each parent, 25% from each grandparent, 12.5 % from each great grandparent, and so on, we can readily calculate the percentage of genes that a puppy shares with the ancestor to which its dam or sire was linebred." T.

06-03-2008, 06:19 AM	#7
Sugar's Mom BANNED! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 9,248	my husband has line bred his Beagles every since he started forty years ago. because of this, many champions have come from this line. i will be line breeding also next year.

06-03-2008, 08:28 PM	#11
Litllam88 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: May 2008 Location: CA Posts: 40	Personally, it's just a little too close for me. Basically, you are breeding an Auntie and a Nephew. Twice or three times removed would be better, but that's JMHO. I'm sure there are other breeders who do it closer tho, but not me. You would be more than doubling up on Teddy & Tiffanie, since Duke is their grandson. I guess if you look at it this way...would you have relations with your nephew or would that be eeewww? If Sophie or Weezie had a pup (with a sire from a different line) and then the pup is bred to Duke, it would be okay. (Second cousins) You don't have to listen to me...it's just my personal opinion.

06-04-2008, 05:16 AM	#15
chrislynn5 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: LOUISIANA Posts: 156	So interesting!!