Looking 4 A Parti Yorkie

[Snow Yorkies]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

First a breed club will have to be started and then they will take up the battle with the AKC

There are breed clubs established in Germany and in America for the Biewers. Some American clubs have compromised the name. My guess is to try for FSS acceptance.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

True the Dna testing only proved who the parents were. But the lineage leads back to champions. Champions who were judged to be pure yorkies that met all of the qualifications according to the judges. ALSO the breeders were long time reputable breeders.

There was an element of trust involved.

Only the sires are documented for DNA on a normal basis. I am sure I will be corrected if this is wrong "if 5 or more litters are sired", then they are required to be DNA'd. The bitches are done randomly. So one can only guess that "ALL" breeders are on the up and up.

The HUGE question that you have to ask both as a breeder and buyer of these parti colour/biewers is that are you in it for the good of the breed and are you a true fancier of the breed or are you in it because you want something that not many people own, such as collecting rare coins, and can make a lot of money charging pumped up prices for the puppies?

Not everyone is selling their Biewers for astronomical prices. Yes, manybe some are but not all. Some of know that with a new breed there is plenty of work ahead of us and there will be several pups that are only pet quality. That finding the right homes for these babes are more important than the $$$. In breeding though we know there are expenses and we do have to recoupe our expenses.

Registering the pups with the German Registries is not cheap. DNA'ing dogs runs about $40.00, Pre-breeding exams, sire fees, vaccinations, ect... Most breeders know the expense so I am not going to sit here and list them all. It isn't cheap.

Lorraine you are right though, in the future we will see who was in it for the $$ and who embraced this breed for the betterment and to see them succeed.


Everyone is entitled to educated themselves in what they believe on how the parties/biewers come about. Foul play... no one can say for 100% sure. So until this is proven to me. I will continue to love my Biewers (they are awesome) and I will continue to try to produce the best of the best..

[lisatodd]

WOW....this is a debate that should be placed into a book. WHO IS THE RENOUN YORKSHIRE TERRIER EXPERT WE COULD CONTACT?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Okay, I am snowed in so have some time today. I'll give it another try.
First, you have to know and understand the whole concept of purebred registered dogs and the reason show breeders do what they do and the reason breed clubs such as YTCA exist. If you can't grasp that concept you aren't going to 'get it'.
The YOrkie was developed many years ago. Along the way there was a breed standard as there is for any purebred registered dog. Certain colours were set or accepted as part of the standard for all any breed of registered dog. .
The Particolour Yorkie, the chocolate Yorkie are not acceptable colours to the standard.
Breeders who are fanciers of a breed such as the Yorkie, know the standard, strive to breed towards that standard. Puppies we have that we feel do not meet what we want for the show rings are sold for pet spay/neutered. It might be size, too small, too big, it could be not the best topline, not a great front or rear, coat may not be silk, could look like it is going too light that sort of thing. I very strongly have doubts a particolour ever showed up legitimately in a respected show breeders whelping box.
I do not know of any of the many hundreds of breeds currently recognized by the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club in Canada that are accepted as a new breed because the are a wrong colour for another breed.
BTW show breeders do not CULL puppies if you mean they kill them. They would be given as pets or sold very low price to a suitable pet home.
Interesting that you put down show breeders but like to bring up all the Champions in a pedigree in puppies you might have. Who put the Championships there? I think show breeders did.
anyway, I have too much I am not getting done.
There is no point arguing anymore, you would have to actively participate in the show rings, immerse yourself in the breed to understand the purebred dog world.
Good luck.

Where did anyone PUT DOWN show breeders.

I do know and understand the concepts of breed clubs, but I also know that many breed standards have changed over the years. The changes were made for various reasons, as in the example I gave of the Norfolk and Norwich Terriers. One of the reasons for a breed standard to be changed or a new category added, is because of the popularity of a "misfit". When the smaller yorkies became more popular, the changed the standard to accomodate it.

Do you think there were three sizes of poodles in the beginning? Or three different color categories for cocker spaniels?

Yes I mean Kill when I say cull. It was a common practice way back when. People did not have the same ethics concerning dogs as they do now. I would guess that spaying/neutering was not a common practice back then, so therefore they were culled.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

There are breed clubs established in Germany and in America for the Biewers. Some American clubs have compromised the name. My guess is to try for FSS acceptance.



Only the sires are documented for DNA on a normal basis. I am sure I will be corrected if this is wrong "if 5 or more litters are sired", then they are required to be DNA'd. The bitches are done randomly. So one can only guess that "ALL" breeders are on the up and up.



Not everyone is selling their Biewers for astronomical prices. Yes, manybe some are but not all. Some of know that with a new breed there is plenty of work ahead of us and there will be several pups that are only pet quality. That finding the right homes for these babes are more important than the $$$. In breeding though we know there are expenses and we do have to recoupe our expenses.

Registering the pups with the German Registries is not cheap. DNA'ing dogs runs about $40.00, Pre-breeding exams, sire fees, vaccinations, ect... Most breeders know the expense so I am not going to sit here and list them all. It isn't cheap.

Lorraine you are right though, in the future we will see who was in it for the $$ and who embraced this breed for the betterment and to see them succeed.


Everyone is entitled to educated themselves in what they believe on how the parties/biewers come about. Foul play... no one can say for 100% sure. So until this is proven to me. I will continue to love my Biewers (they are awesome) and I will continue to try to produce the best of the best..

The DNA tests that were done before these parti yorkies were accepted by the AKC was extensive testing of both sires and dams. It is not the same as the DNA registry for frequent sires.

I was speaking of breed clubs for the Parti's not the Biewers.

I strongly believe that they will eventually find their way into the show ring, one way or another. They are too gorgeous to be ignored.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by lisatodd

WOW....this is a debate that should be placed into a book. WHO IS THE RENOUN YORKSHIRE TERRIER EXPERT WE COULD CONTACT?

Joan Gordon and Janet Bennet if they are still alive. The problem is many breeders did not keep records because they were originally a poor man's dog and many of them were probably illiterate. And also as I stated before, oddities such as a white yorkie would have been culled and kept as a dirty little secret.

It is very possible that some where way back when some dog jumped the fence and since the off spring looked like a yorkie no one even knew, since it is possible for one litter to hasve more than one sire, and the gene was hidden until two of these carriers eventually ended up mating.

However it came about, it is there and cannot be denied.

[krys323296]

I know this sounds crazy, but exactly is a parti yorkie? What do they look like? I am in the process of looking for a tea cup yorkie if anyone has any good references I would greatly appreciate it. Some of the prices I have seen for tea cups are $2500 and up. Is that the going rate for tea cups now? I am trying to be as careful as possible. Thanks!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by krys323296

I know this sounds crazy, but exactly is a parti yorkie? What do they look like? I am in the process of looking for a tea cup yorkie if anyone has any good references I would greatly appreciate it. Some of the prices I have seen for tea cups are $2500 and up. Is that the going rate for tea cups now? I am trying to be as careful as possible. Thanks!

here is a picture of a parti yorkie

Bnsy.JPG

[Snow Yorkies]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The DNA tests that were done before these parti yorkies were accepted by the AKC was extensive testing of both sires and dams. It is not the same as the DNA registry for frequent sires.

Sorry, I was referring to what the normal practice was used by AKC and DNA'ing. Not attacking the procedures used by the parti breeders to document their litters.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I was speaking of breed clubs for the Parti's not the Biewers.

Just trying to educate on the Biewers, again sorry.

[krys323296]

I didn't read the thread all the way through about parti yorkies. I have an idea what they are now. But, still interested in anyone selling a tea-cup! Thanks!!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

Sorry, I was referring to what the normal practice was used by AKC and DNA'ing. Not attacking the procedures used by the parti breeders to document their litters.


Just trying to educate on the Biewers, again sorry.

I wasn't attacking you, I too was just clarifying to clear up any misinterpretations.

[lisatodd]

Originally Posted by krys323296

I didn't read the thread all the way through about parti yorkies. I have an idea what they are now. But, still interested in anyone selling a tea-cup! Thanks!!

just an fyi....no such thing as a tea cup. yorkshire terriers are of the toy breed. standard size not to exceed 7lbs. sometimes they may throw out a tiny baby. please go to the "yorkshire terrier club of america" site and read up on "tea cup".

[Snow Yorkies]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I wasn't attacking you, I too was just clarifying to clear up any misinterpretations.

Didn't feel that you were. I totally understand!!!

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

This is why I think as more understand the genetics of canine colors, they will not think that parti-Yorkies are a natural occurance in the breed but a mix of something else in the woodpile.

I doubt the AKC will ever allow them to be shown. There is no way to scientifically prove they are pure Yorkies as long as they carry a piebald gene. Eventually they will hire a genetics expert to document they are not pure Yorkies.

I contacted Dr. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, PhD, Professor of Pathology and Genetics, Department of Biomedical Sciences Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine yesterday. Dr. Sponenberg's field of color genetic expertise and study are in the larger breed animals (I have several of his books on equine color genetics) but I thought I'd get his opinion on where the parti gene may have come from in our Yorkies, stating some feel that it came from the Maltese blood. Here's what he said:

"Recessive genes like this could be lurking in many breeds for years, so it does not necessarily have to come from the Maltese." He continues to say, "most white breeds have extensive spotting and then very pale ?tan? areas. So, when they are pups sometimes you can see faint spots that become paler (whiter) at maturity. If this is the case, (with the Maltese) then the pale tan/white pretty much removes much chance for noticing a spotted Maltese. The crossbreds (Maltese x yorkie pups) with the white chest and paw tips are likely heterozygous for spotting genes. Crossing those back to each other would sort it out pretty quickly (producing parti colored dogs).

So his opinion is that some spotted dog (maltese or other) introduced the parti gene but that this gene may have remained hidden (or kept secret) for many years. He also notes that carriers of the spotting gene are the pups with white chests and/or white paw tips. By crossing two solid colored pups together who have the white markings, they will produce full parti colored dogs (if they both carry the gene, approximately 25% of the pups will be full parti).

As "FlDebra" noted: "There is no way to scientifically prove they are pure Yorkies" ... There is no scientific way to prove that any of our yorkies are pure and there are no guarantees that 100 years ago, 50 years ago or 10 years ago, the blood of another breed wasn't introduced intentionally, accidentally or unknowingly into our bloodlines. Until it's required for everyone to DNA their dogs (which will help keep people honest) there is no guarantee that outside blood is not being introduced.

Just because a yorkie looks pure, doesn't mean it is. If a Parti yorkie comes from the same bloodlines as a traditional colored yorkie, why would the Parti dog not be pure but the traditional one is pure? Same breeding, same bloodlines same genes, only one is traditional colored and one is not.

Food for thought: If you see a line of traditional colored yorkies who seem to produce a lot of white chested pups (25% of the time) be cautious when breeding pups together who were born with these large splashes of white on their chests and/or white paws. They could be carriers of the recessive parti gene and by breeding 2 dogs together who displayed white chests, you might be accidentally surprised one day, when you get your own Parti colored dog. I do know, that this is how several of the parti lines today were uncovered.

[FlDebra]

There is a difference in white hair that matures to the correct color (it will have the correct skin colors beneath) and hair that remains white in the mature dog (the skin color beneath will be wrong as well). There are different genes/modifiers involved. Maybe the expert you consulted was not aware that the puppy blazes do mature to the correct breed colors.

JeanieK said something I agree with and that is that no matter how these dogs got here, they are here and I find that sad in the way it is happening. There are no standards for the partis; so any combination or pattern of colors is being bred. I am positive some unscrupulous breeders are adding other breeds to the mix. Just as some trying for the very tiny are adding in chihuahua (just look at some of those faces online!). The problem is that most are coming with papers so other well-intentioned but uneducated folks are breeding them and further diluting the Yorkshire Terrier breed characteristics. I find it very sad that finding a Yorkie with the standard qualities may be exceedingly difficult in coming years. I had a Yorkie that was a product of non-selective breeding. Had she not been spayed she could have brought more litters of non-standard pups.

If you are for breeding Parti-colors AND getting full AKC recognition, ask yourself if you are for the same practices for chocolate yorkies, over 10 pound yorkies, those with long necks, short wiry coats, as a matter of fact -- look through the standards and ask yourself if you would be for omitting each one of them. And if we do....what will happen? Will these be the new Yorkies? (These are all yorkie rescues) Maybe a bit melodramatic -- but you get the idea -- once we compromise one standard, where do we stop?

[JeanieK]

Pinehaven... that was very interesting. I do not deny that there could have been a white dog of some sort mixed in somewhere down the line. But as you stated are the black puppies in the litter any more pure than the white ones?

My guess is there are a lot of champions out there that are not 100% yorkie.

As for the DNA testing a test result would still only be as good as the breeder. They can clain a yorkie was the father, and send in the DNA from a maltese and claim it was from the yorkie.

When selecting a puppy, The reputation of the breeder is more important than the the pedigree of the dog.