I would rest your fingers. No since beating a dead horse, if you know what I mean. It's obvious the advice, wisdom and experience is going in one way and out the other. It looks like now this thread has become a game.

We all know the right things to do and hopefully others reading this thread will realize there is way too much documentation, let alone experience backing up that the babies should stay with thier mommy's until 12 weeks of age if not longer in some cases. I'm satified to know we are doing what is best.

I don't see anymore replies from this "breeder", I guess they gave up trying to defend their position.

Please take everyone's comments to heart as you sound very new and I'm sorry to say uneducated in breeding Yorkshire Terriers. Try not to take offense in other's replies. However, your replies show you to be argumentative and defensive rather than open to learning from people with much more experience and knowledge than yourself in breeding and raising Yorkies.

We require a MINIMUM of 12 weeks (we like to wait until 15 if possible) before letting our puppies go to their new homes. Puppies are quite a bit of work at this age but it is important for their social development to have interaction with their littermates, other animals (if possible) and humans. Yes people can get lucky with a Yorkie released to their new home early but that is not a typical situation.

You've come to the wrong place to lay that "for sale" sign down you posted. People on YT are not ignorant or stupid enough to fall for that hook line and sinker.

I wish you all the best.

I had personally rather keep my babies til three months and they are not poor .... fat solid muscle tone good body overall apperance ... well you all know what I am talking about .. plus have had neopar ... 5 in 1 vaccine then at 3 months 7 in 1 and rabies vaccine ... then if I keep them
5 wks neopar
7 weks 5 in 1 vaccine
9 weeks 7 in 1
12 weeks puppy booster and rabies vaccine ...
vet choose this vaccination schedule for me not my own make up he has been vet long time I trust him has never ever had a problem with the neopar and I give this onemyself ..
all pups are checked at 5 wks 7 wks 9wks and 12 wks before they leave me if they leave at this time ...
vet name Brent Jobe ....
Vet name Kay Jobe
Vet tech name Tanya Watson ....
all great animal / vet/ show breeders also
and have won shows with thier english bulldogs and shetland sheepdogs Shelties ... and more

The ONLY reason a "breeder" would try to get rid of the puppies as early as 5-6 weeks old (WHICH BY THE WAY IS ILLLLLLEEEEEGGALLLL) is to avoid cleaning up after them, caring for them, and taking them to the vet for their shots and regulars. If this is you, you don't deserve to be called a breeder. A breeder is a highly respected and EARNED name, not just get a bitch pregnant and you're a breeder...BUYER BEWARE (not just you, but anyone going by your standards), unless you want an unsocialized, potentially sick puppy.:thumbdown

Not everywhere...unfortunately. There are no restrictions here as I am aware of and it is a common practice to let pups go at 6-8 weeks, regardless of breed. :(

No, In the state of California It is ILLEGAL to sell puppies less than 8 weeks old! This is one of those laws that I'm glad California has pioneered!
I would suggest this seller to look up our state laws before trying to sell her dogs here just because they fetch a higher price than OR.

I rescued a yorkie when she was 5 weeks old when I saw it in the newspaper. She had some biting issues and growled at my son when she would sit on my lap. Puppies learn how to behave from their mother and littermates. When they bite her too hard, she lets them know! Luckily I read some books and she stopped doing that. I tried to get the BYB to keep all of the puppies longer and she refused. The BYB said to give her watered down puppyfood. BYBs only let their puppies go this early for selfish reasons I hate to say... because 5 weeks is the point where the moms stop cleaning up after them. The byb once told me that they start to "Eat you out of house and home, then you have to pay for their shots."

I would suggest anyone thinking about breeding to see the whole picture and remember that you're responsible for their lives and giving them the best start possible. Taking care of a 1lb dog is really scarey. When I found out she had worms she ended up tripling her weight, but if I hadn't watched her carefully she could have went anytime. I'm not attacking you or anything, this is just something I think people should know. Please consider keeping them longer.

Yes, I am perfectly aware of this. I was merely pointing out that unfortunately, it is not the law here where I am.:)

Oh, I misread your post. I wish it was a federal law to keep them longer and give them their shots. I think there would be less bybs and maybe even puppymills would be effected.

Gosh! Somehow this subject completely missed me, although I did enjoy reading everyone's posts. Whom ever this lady was, she sure provided entertainment. However, it's very sad to say at the expense of her yorkie and her babies and she's never going to get it.

Goodness I have seen it all now! I still find it unbelievable that someone would advertise 10 day old puppies for sale, let alone all the other things that are just wrong in this situation!:eek:

advertising is ok at any age letting them go however is not ..... anyone can choose to advertise at any age but not let them go and give potential buyers the choice of waiting til theya re around 6 to 8 weeks old before making thier choice .Of which and at this time make a deposit if that is what they **the Buyer **wants to do . Personally advertising has really nothing to do with this subject but the age of letting **GO** does ... and to add that it is not state law here in the state of mississippi of how old a puppie is before letting it go . unfortunately so ...

and nothing you say or do is going to stop anything any breeder / byb / puppmill does .. state law however might some day but I highly doubt it ...


**BEEN AROUND TOO LONG *** JOINED THE FIGHT NOTHING HAPPENED ** NOTHING NEVER WILL ****

I agree.:)

I am sorry, but I totally disagree with you. This particular litter of puppies at 10 weeks of age do not even have their eyes open. Let alone the fact they are not even old enough to do any testing, including a complete blood panel or a liver shunt test! I honestly feel that when people start advertising their puppies at this age they are only breeding for the profit they can make off of their dogs! Even the breeder does NOT know what quality these puppies will be at this young of an age, let alone state that one is show quality. I cannot believe that people think this is a reputable thing to do. :rolleyes:

Ok all, I sat here for 15 minutes and read this whole thread and I would like to share my experience. I purchased my yorkie at 8weeks. From a byb which I had no idea existed untill I found this site. When we brought our pup home she did not even know how to drink water out of a bowl by herself!!!!!!! My husband sat with her for a couple of hours trying to teach her. And as for her dry puppy food, well there was no way she was going to chew that. We had to moisten it for her. Also at 8 weeks she had a very short coat and when I asked about that the breeder told me she is still a baby and it will come in fast. Yah right!!!!!!!! She is almost a year old and still no hair on her head. Look at my avatar. My vet and I believe she is a mix even though I have ckc papers saying she is pure. Well to make a long story short, at 8 weeks you cannot tell for sure if you go to a byb that the pup you are getting is pure. I wish I found this site before I jumped into getting her. I would have know to ask many more questions of the breeder. Don't get me wrong we love her with all our hearts. I am just saying that people need to get educated when it comes to buying a little furbaby. And yes take it from me 8 weeks was way to early for my baby to leave her mom. I cannot imagine one being taken away at 5 or 6 weeks. Even after we realized she was not purebred and I contacted the breeder she still states that there are no other dogs in her program that could have mixed with her female.. Personaly I think she is a liar and was in it only for the money. Please everyone choose an experienced breeder! I will for my next yorkie which will be very soon I hope. meeshue

Please be sure and read up on Hypoglycemia due to Irresponsible breeding of TINY puppies. This is killing more Yorkie puppies in a single year than Liver Shunt does in 10 years.

LIVER SHUNT
There are NO "SCREENING" methods at this time by which to screen every puppy that is considered to be accurate or justified.


Liver Shunt is one of the medical concerns of the Yorkshire Terrier Breed. It is a concern in several other breeds as well that have genetic relationships to the Yorkie like the Cairn Terrier and Scottish Terrier who are kissing cousins to the Yorkie. This leads us to believe, even more, that the problem is genetic. It also tends to run in bloodlines thus again leading us to believe it is a genetic occurrence but NO research to this date has proven anything other than it being a congenital defect.
74 breeds of dogs are believed to be possible carriers of liver shunt at this time.



WHAT IS IT?
Liver Shunt is where the shunt blood vessels leading to the liver have bypassed the liver causing ammonia and other toxins to not be filtered out by the liver, resulting in hepatic encephalopathy or brain inflammation. It is actually a poisoning of the system leading to death unless successful medical intervention is given immediately.



SYMPTOMS:
Keep in mind that these symptoms can mimic other problems as well.

Sporadic Weakness

Dizziness

Disorientation

Loss of coordination

Vomiting

Diarrhea

head-pressing

Mental unawareness

Aggression

Urinary Tract Infections

Bladder stones

Low tolerance to sedatives

Bleeding disorders

Light colored stool
Behavioral Changes

Drooling

Stupor

Anorexia

Pacing

Blindness

Seizures

Coma

Circling

High puppy mortality (6-14 weeks)

Lethargy

Distended abdomen

Jaundice


WHAT CAN WE DO?
The first thing that every breeder should do is be aware that liver shunt is a problem in the Yorkshire Terrier breed and should be of great concern and every effort should be made to not produce puppies from afflicted animals or from 2 recessive carriers.

The gene apparently can be carried Recessively and when this happens the dog producing the afflicted offspring does not have the condition themselves but are carriers of the gene and when two like recessive genes come together it produces an afflicted offspring. This is where the problem lies. Many offspring may be produced before the breeder becomes aware that they have a recessive gene problem in their lines. Though it is estimated that 25% of puppies produced from 2 recessive carriers will have affected offspring, 50% will be carriers and 25% will be clear of Liver Shunt. The problem lies in misdiagnosis of the 25% that are affected. Many are never taken to the vet that die and the assumption is hypoglycemia since it is an ever increasing problem of the breed due to the determination of many irresponsible breeders to continue to downsize the breed. Most breeders who find a dead puppy in their pens never have an autopsy done so no diagnosis is ever made as to cause of death. Many breeders blame a reaction to a vaccine as the cause of death when in actuality the vaccine may of just been the catalyst. Other pet owners refuse to have an autopsy done due to cost or emotional stress.

The second problem being that there is no simple and easy test for the accurate diagnosis of liver shunt. There are several test that could lead you to believe that your dog may be affected but a very invasive test is required for a Conclusive Diagnosis and few are willing to put their animal through such an invasive test if they themselves are not showing any signs and symptoms of liver shunt.

So that puts us back at square one. What can we do?

WHO IS TO BLAME?
Sometimes nobody is to blame.
The shame is if you KNOW you are producing liver shunt puppies and have not taken steps to prevent it in the future. EVERYBODY has problems in their lines with something and liver shunt is just another concern for those who breed Yorkshire Terriers. Liver Shunt however is one of those MAJOR concerns as it is life-threatening. It is however, NOT something that everybody should assume is going to take them by storm and wipe out their bloodlines.

Nobody seems to want to blame the breeder for producing hundreds of Hypoglycemia puppies a year but yet hypoglycemia is a problem that is easier to remove from your breeding program and control than liver shunt. But yet let a liver shunt puppy be produced and everybody is up in arms and wanting to point fingers and yell from the rooftops - Irresponsible breeder!

Once again let me repeat:

IS IT RUNNING RAMPANT IN YORKIES?
NO it is not running rampant in Yorkies but it has shown to be on the increase in the past 20 years. The notice in increase is very likely to be that more Vets and Breeders have become aware of Liver Shunt and are having the test run that confirms liver shunt as the problem.

The Yorkshire Terrier however has shown to test more often Positive for Liver Shunt than any other breed of dog. In 2001 - 483 Yorkies were reported as diagnosed with Liver Shunt. That number is comparably small though if you figure how many Yorkies were born in the year 2001. At that time it was considered to be less than 2%. That leaves 98% of all Yorkies unaffected.
With 98% unaffected I'd say it is not running rampant and you have a better than average chance of receiving a healthy puppy.

You have a far greater chance of receiving a puppy affected with hypoglycemia. Hypoglycemia is also life-threatening, to be sure, so I'd be more concerned about my puppy be affected by hypoglycemia than liver shunt.

TESTING:
There are several Test that can be used to determine if more invasive test are warranted but it is unrealistic to test every puppy or Adult dog unless some signs or symptoms are seen that justify the testing to be done.

The simple tests are inconclusive at best and there are no test at this time other than the invasive ones that can give an accurate diagnosis.

There are many many problems that can lead to liver dysfunction and some are not genetic so it's not as simple as to say to test every puppy for liver shunt because the test are not always accurate and they do not do a conclusive diagnosis of liver shunt but as to a liver dysfunction.. We all wish it was as simple as testing every puppy but it just isn't that simple. 28% of tests to date have shown to be inaccurate for the diagnosis of liver shunt. Not very good odds when your condemning a puppy to more invasive measures or being put to sleep due to the cost of the more invasive treatments.

There has also been a concern as to using the inconclusive test on Yorkies since Yorkies have been found to NOT have a determined consistent acid bile level even in healthy unaffected specimens.

Bile Acid Test - Serum Bile Acids - A Liver FUNCTION test, not an enzyme test. Performed by taking a blood sample, givng a meal, taking another blood sample 2 hour after the meal. The sample are then compared giving us an accurate measure of liver function. This does NOT give a CONCLUSIVE diagnosis of liver shunt only a reading of liver function. More invasive test would be needed for any diagnosis as to the liver problem.

Urine Acid Test - Ammonia tolerance testing - A urine test to determine existance of lvier disease. Could result in finding annomium biurate crystals. Not always accurate. More invasive test would be needed for any diagnosis as to the liver problem.

Blood Ammonia Value Test - Sensitive indicators: less reliable than Total Serum Bile acids because of analytic problems.

STOOL SAMPLE: A dog that has abnormal pigmented stool could indicate liver disease. Obstruction of the biliary system and normal bile pigments are not secreted to cause the normal dark color of stool.

X-Rays - An enlarged liver on a radiograph is called hepatomegaly, an abnormally small one is called microphepatica. Both be signs of a liver problem.

Ultrasounds - Is highly beneficial in the diagnosis of liver disease. Ultrasounds are usually used after the Enzyme or Bile Acid Test prior to Imaging or Biopsy. Is unreliable at best.

Liver Imaging: RADIOGRAPHY - Invasive - A dye is injected into the spleen and the dye is tracked through Radiograph through the blood vessels. A blood vessel bypassing the liver can easily be seen on the image. This is the only universally accepted method of confirming a shunt, short of major surgery, it however is extremely invasive and is a poor choice for "screening" purposes.

Liver Biopsy - Extremely Invasive - A valuable test in the diagnosis of liver disease. A sample of the liver is obtained during exploratory surgery. Can be life-threatening if the diseased liver hemorrhages into the abdomen so a coagulation panel prior to any liver biopsy is necessary.



INVASIVE SURGERY and AUTOPSY are the only two that can positively identify a LIVER SHUNT.