To the OP: I have a waiting list for my next litter. If you would like more information feel free to fill out my puppy application and we can go from there.

That's nearly a Bingo for me, thus I'd agree. Nothing is all one way or the other, but some people can be convinced it is...and that's where unfounded statement presented as a fact can do a lot of harm.

wouldn't that require shipping? Isn't the OP from Chicago? One post is watch out for breeders that PM, the next watch out for breeders that ship. Appears nearly everyone one loses here...sadly most often the potential buyer...who out of so much confusion and misinformation simply picks up the nearest pup, by passing all the bickering.

Wrapping up in one small package...Research your breeder, a breeder that is close enough for one to visit.

I think there is misinterpretation on what is meant by breeder's PMing newbies looking for a pup. As in every organization, being a YT member does not automatically make a breeder or potential puppy buyer the best. I've seen on many threads....oh! my puppy went to a YT member or breeder so and so is a YT member, and just based on that they are great.

So, what has been mentioned here is telling the OP; buyer beware and do your homework. You buy your breeder first then your pup.

I've witnessed several breeders follow newbie threads and the only posts you see from these breeder YT members is I've got pups or I have a litter due....

Just in the last week there was a pup that was purchased from a YT Member, and the pup died of Parvo....the communication and purchase was made via PMs. It happens all the time.

No I wouldn't have to ship. I don't mind road trips :)

Thank you Mary for your input! ;)

ahhh, but then you run the risk of being accused of being a "bad" breeder because you didn't let them come to your home. The road trip offer would be taken as an effort to disguise you're hiding where your Yorkies are bred. (apparently, even the willingness to meet them down the block is a bad thing)

(No, I don't think you are a bad breeder, as I don't know you, but you can see where nearly every suggestion is turned around on the poster)

Dave, did you ever find a pup? As you can see, yout thread spun out of control. Best of luck, and hope you do all the right things.

:thumbs_upI agree

Sometimes when an discussion goes out of control it is hard to see what really is being said. Like the old saying "can't see the forest for the trees"

all of you have good points. I hope dave finds a great puppy.

Kendra -- Steve did not say don't buy from anyone who pm's -- he said BEWARE and I think from the large number of reported problems of people who do this when they are NOT reputable, that is good advice. If a person is being warned of this problem, they can sift through the PMs they get and probably pick yours out in a heartbeat over many others who will not have any sort of criteria for potential buyers other than $$$$$. Most of the disreputable sellers via PMs are selling at reduced prices from what I hear, and not requiring any sort of application procedure. I only received a few over the years and it has been quite a while since I have received one. But I have gotten the offer of a pup at a reduced price, non-AKC, less than 12 weeks old, and they asked me no questions at all!

Many people have written posts about these experiences lately. Often they are selling NON-AKC pups from non-standard parents. The pups wind up not looking like quality Yorkies and there are usually poor or non-existant health guarantees. There are many breeders who will not openly post about their litters for fear of being outed for their non-standard and often unethical practices. Yorkietalk as a whole has gotten to be a group of much more savvy buyers than in past years. We have a few members that are alerting to problem breeders. That makes many of the BYBs afraid of the public forums.

I have only had two Yorkie litters. The first all went to family & friends. The second I had most spoken for but had 2 males to sale. I put the litter on Yorkietalk for a few days and even sent a PM in response to one person asking for a puppy. The PM never got beyond the initial contact, and if it had, I have a thorough application,require a vet referral, and felt I could ensure only good homes for my pups. So, I figured as an initial contact only, it would be okay. After talking about ethical advertising with other members here on YT and really looking at what YTCA recommends, I decided to ask the thread be closed and vowed never to PM about a puppy again. I am always in learning mode.

It should be a good way to make an initial contact..... I see your point. Unfortunately, because so many BYBs are using that method, I think maybe it has become tainted. Still.....since you are using it ONLY as an intial contact with many steps yet between that first PM and the decision to sell a puppy to the person, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. I would really think about it though. I have had to change some of my initial thoughts after further education. I gladly forego contacts by PM to make sure I am not associated with the many BYBs that are taking that avenue!

Steve's advice to people to BEWARE of strangers just wanting to sell you a dog refers to those who are offering a sale right off the bat without knowing anything about a person. They are also strangers to YT as most of them do not post openly and some do not admit to being breeders when they do post. That does happen in the For Sale section on YT too. For instance, one breeder actually said, "the first $500 takes this pup home!" Seriously! That is the same attitude that most of the people selling by PMs are taking too. Just "show me the money." SAD!

Hopefully this explains it better from my point of view and maybe Steve's but I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth.

Davidgirl -- Since price seems to be your issue right now.....I would look into rescues a little more. What rescues have you contacted?
Here is a sticky with a list of rescue organizations & contact info: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...nizations.html
Also be sure to read the many homes needed in this thread: Yorkie Rescues & New Homes Needed - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community There is a girl in TN that could use a home! I know it is a little far from Chicago, but maybe a yorkie train could help with transportation. The important thing about rescues is to get your application in so they can research you and get you on the approved list, so when one comes available that is a good match for you -- you can be selected.

If you can't rescue, I would follow Steve's advice, don't take the cut-rate puppy that winds up costing thousands in vet fees. Look for a reputable breeder, as the ones in his link to you (in the first reply you received in this thread) -- if you cannot afford them, wait.

The implication that all who PM are not on the up and up was there as it is more often than not in these types of posts. The fact is it isn't true and shouldn't be implied to people as a fact.
As far as reducing prices...so? We have one boy left. I want him to go to a home while he's still young and will bond very easily to someone, we plan to reduce his price, that doesn't make him any less quality or of any less health...what it makes him is a really good deal for someone looking for a great Yorkie pup. We have him left (I believe) because I'm honest with people I tell them he'll go to at least 6 1/2, possibly 7 pounds...what's the common response?: "oh I wanted a SMALL Yorkie" as though 7 pounds isn't a SMALL dog!!! lol Also, his ears don't stand perfectly - up and down, but we all know that could be teething, etc. Of course, when someone comes to look at him, his ears are down!!! haha. He is an absolute sweetheart, smart as can be, very healthy. Yeah, for me to reduce his price is just a bonus to the buyer. The bigger problem is I'm not comfortable shipping cargo, thus my "market" is very limited, so I do think it'd be nice to PM someone IN MY AREA looking for a nice pup, yes, then they should talk to me and I to them, without them automatically thinking they're being scammed by anyone they received PM's from as the truth is they probably are NOT being scammed. Give the buyer some credit for having a brain.

An interesting article:

WHAT NOT TO DO WHEN SELLING A PUPPY, by E. Katie Gammill

I have to disagree with this statement. Fact is, there have been more than a few isolated incidents of people using the PM system to sell their dogs that have resulted in some not so great outcomes. Just look at posting numbers and you can get an idea of who is here just to sell their dogs and who is here to educate about and just enjoy the breed. Frankly, if a dog and breeder is good enough to sell via pm's, shouldn't they be good enough to be out in the open about it? The pm's are targeted at newbies who may or may not have lurked around the site enough to know what to look for when choosing a breeder. There is an implied stamp of approval on the breeders who sell through here that really isn't deserved.

Honestly, I would LOVE to see this whole For Sale/Wanted section to go away. I know it's here as a convenience, but it's been abused far too often.

Deb, you just said what I tried to say much better than I could ever say it! :)

It's not an implication, it's a statement of fact. If a breeder is proud of their work and breeding program, shouldn't they be boasting about it openly on YT? Shouldn't they be happy to show off their pups and field questions from experienced buyers and other breeders? If nothing else, shouldn't they be participating in the education that goes on here at YT?

Now, here comes the implication/opinion part of my statement: To ME, it feels sneaky and underhanded for some breeders here to only offer their pets through PM's. It raises red flags to me that these breeders potentially don't want others to know that they are breeding to less than standard because they know people here can spot it in a heart beat. They don't want to answer questions about the size of the dames, health testing, Ch, etc. because they know they don't measure up.

You asked who was I to put out there that PM's were bad. Well, who are you to say that this IS the way that breeders should go about it? No, I don't and won't breed because I see far too many badly bred dogs out there and too many breeders with questionable practices cheering each other on. I'm grateful to YT for keeping me from buying one of them.

A while back we almost got scamed when purchasing a car that we saw advertized in the newspaper. So I do tell people to be carefull with adds... most are honest but just look for the warning signs and know what you are looking for. I think the same applies to PM..


Also I do know I had a very hard time finding the new member of our family. I really got bogged down with internet adds and just did not know where to go... I think there should be a way for breeders to present themselves. I think in my case there is not a lot a breeders of high quality in my area for what I was looking for and I really got confused. I got lucky, I asked my vet -- at the time I was looking for a small ish shih tuz and he talked me into a yorkie. Best thing that happened... I love my Remy!!!!!!!!

well that is my 2cents!!:D

It seems as though the dilemma is where do you look for an healthy Yorkie if there no YTCA Breeders with puppies available and you have been unable or unwilling to find a rescue? I have learned a reputable breeder will have a limited number of litters per year. The demand for Yorkies must outweigh the availability of YTCA breeder puppies. So how does an average person find breeders? For the general public the research can be daunting and many just go with the easiest route to a puppy. In buying anything it is best to research your product and to shop for a qualified seller. And when dealing with a living creature you must be mindful that this is a lifetime commitment. Buying a sick or genetically compromised dog is no bargain. To buy a puppy from anyone who is not breeding for the betterment of the breed is foolish and a potential emotional and financial time bomb. What is great about YT is that they provide the information to enable you to do the proper research and the warnings of improper impulse buying. I think the YT breeders section is good in that it provides people with a place to go to find a breeder outside of the internet, wanted ads, craig's list etc. I know once you have found a breeder you still have to investigate their breeding practices and that you can not assume a breeder is qualified by their statements or affiliations. IMHO

Ok I think I get it now... it is not that breeders state they have puppies on YT.. it is pretending they are just owners.. and then on the sly PM to uneducated buyers... ( sorry I missed the point before.) In that case I agree.. watch out for breeders who pm.. but if a good breeder who is upfront and honest also pm and the buyer is smart enough to sift through and connect that is oK -- the buyer has to be smart enough to find the good breeder?

Here is part of the YTCA code of ethics:

3) Members shall refer potential puppy purchasers to other reputable breeders and
be helpful and courteous to those who request information about the breed.


There are lots of people who are ethical breeders, they just may not be YTCA members.

When I was looking for Rhett, I contacted at YTCA member. She did not have any pups available, but she referred me to someone she trusted that wasn't a member. That person didn't have any pups available and wasn't going to for awhile due to a family illness. But she and I struck up an email friendship for nearly a year. Because she knew that I was not interested in showing or breeding and that I wasn't the kind looking for an accessory dog, she pointed me in the direction of a rescue that she trusted. Lo and behold, I ended up with my huge, lovable guy all because I started with the YTCA.

Not just the ones who pretend, but if you look around at the For Sale/Wanted section, you will see that there are a fair number of people who crop up and post ONLY when they have dogs available. When you research their posts, that's all there is. There aren't any "hey, look at my litter" pics in the nursery, no questions in the breeder sections, no helping in the sick/injured forum. Nothing but answering a post with "I have a pup available...I'll pm you with details".

Anyone looking for a pup needs to know that being on YT is NOT a stamp of approval, and that they need to examine every offer just as thoroughly as they would any other breeder.

Ok, let's all let it go. I don't want to argue about it and I'm sorry if I came across so strong, I'm just very passionate about telling the truth, the whole truth and it just seems kinda like...I have a hard time finding the word for, but it certainly doesn't seem caring about helping to find a puppy a good home.
I just want to add, that to say "beware of strangers..." Since everyone is a stranger, it implies all and implications of things that are not true is wrong to do. Wrong to do to the buyer, wrong to do to the seller, wrong to do to the puppy.
No one knows that someone who may PM someone looking for a puppy is not on the up and up, nor can they know if they are and I believe such implications to a newbie posting to look for a puppy might scare them off and they may pass on a quality pup (who needs a home and as much they might want to give it one) and they just go buy where things appear (on the surface) of being legit...like their local pet store.
So I believe if someone is going to go so far as to feel they need to "warn" someone they should do so as truthfully as possible. It's important that puppies for sale end up in good homes and that starts with buyer and seller connecting. I think both can figure out who's on the up and up and who's not. Yeah, sometimes both can get fooled, just not all...stranger or not.
I guess as much as someone feels the need to imply PM's are not good for someone posting about wanting a pup I feel the need to clarify it to them as I want them to have the whole truth: Some PM's might not be legit, Some may be.

Here you go - perfect. 5 month old female Yorkie needs a new home in the Chicago area. - Just posted. Good luck
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...land-area.html

Teresa

UPDATE/Was apprvd but foster mom decided to keep her
 

Hello everyone thanks for all cares and concerns(I didnt mean to start a riot). I actually found a yorkie, at a rescue, that was owner surrendered. I was approved to receive her($300). I get a call ,a day before Iam to pick her up, and the foster mom has decided to keep her(her daughter feel in love with the 3lb sweetheart). My heart was broken. My first thought was to give up, but I have decided to continue my search. After doing some research I thought maybe 3lbs may not have been a good idea(not saying all 3 pounders have issues) but I know sometimes smaller isnt better! I did get a few PM's and I checked their sites. Iam going to be patient and wait on the right one to love.

Hello everyone thanks for all cares and concerns(I didnt mean to start a riot). I actually found a yorkie, at a rescue, that was owner surrendered. I was approved to receive her($300). I get a call ,a day before Iam to pick her up, and the foster mom has decided to keep her(her daughter feel in love with the 3lb sweetheart). My heart was broken. My first thought was to give up, but I have decided to continue my search. After doing some research I thought maybe 3lbs may not have been a good idea(not saying all 3 pounders have issues) but I know sometimes smaller isnt better! I did get a few PM's and I checked their sites. Iam going to be patient and wait on the right one to love.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...ser_online.gif http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...ons/report.gif http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...c/progress.gif

LOL- you didn't start a riot. Stick around an you'll see threads go off topic all the time.

Sorry your first adoption attempt didn't work out. Keep looking and I'm sure the perfect dog will find you when it's ready.

Don't worry, it took me several months to realize most YT are really great people... just have strong opinions!!!

I know how hard it is to find the right baby.. maybe asks some of the local vets. At least the vets know who takes care of their babies and will be a starting point to find the right breeder?

Just because someone doesn't "want" to pay tons of money for a dog or doesn't see the reasoning in it, doesn't mean they can't afford to take GREAT care of one or that they are substandard owners.....or, don't deserve a yorkie. My next door neighbor paid $2,000.00 "ridiculous" dollars for her "pet quality" yorkie and doesn't bother to brush his teeth daily, brush him daily or even take him to the groomers but MAYBE once a year. She always comes back complaing about how much they charge her..........heck, he's not even neutered. I bet you ANYTHING he's not on heartworm preventative or flea preventative either. I had to rush her and her dog to the emergency vet recently because he was choking and the vet tech couldn't insert a thermometer into his rectum. His hair was matted and he had fecal matter blocking "the way". It sounded like the thermometer had "hit" against cement. Get this!! She's a vice-principal of a high school.....a highly educated person. Who would think!!! On the other hand, I paid $300.00 for my Yorkie. I brush her teeth daily, brush her hair daily, walk her twice daily, bathe her weekly, she's spayed and is on heartworm and flea preventative. I'm very interested in everything and anything that has to do with her particular needs. I KNEW she was gonna be a high maintenance kinda little girl BEFORE I even bought her.....and I was ready for it. She is a beautiful dog with a long, fine silky coat....just like she's supposed to have. There's an awful lot of people out there that can't say the same.....though they've paid out the WAZOO with the hopes and expectation that that would be what they would get. And no, she's NOT a tiny. I read up on that too before I bought. Also, some of these rescues charge quite a lot for yorkies, especially if they are nice-looking ones (I've noticed) that have come from horrible backgrounds.....rotted out teeth, liver shunts, LP, super bad behavioral/psychological problems, etc. BAD, expensive problems that have real potential for being "chronic". Bless those little dogs hearts but, you know, some people just want a dog to love....and a yorkie kind of dog to love......simple as that. They don't want it to be "complicated" and a major source of stress. This is what I have to say to the OP. Don't pay anymore than what you are comfortable paying for a puppy. I might pay a couple of hundred dollars more if I found a situation with a decent breeder, but no more. Good luck too!! Hope you don't get.....you know.....screwdrivered!!