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Wnalegria wnalegria- I have spoken to you on the phone and through e-mails and have never questioned your intent with your dogs or the information that you have given me. I would have never guessed that you ever had any illness, and I too am sorry that someone could be so cruel. You are a very valuable asset to this forum. If only there were more like you to share years of valuable knowledge with those of us who are "newbies" to the whole world of Yorkies. I applaud you and thank you for all of your contributions to Yorkie Talk. |
AkC Yorkie International Just some thoughts. If I wanted to post on this forum and you stated that I had to have posted 500 times- I could have that done in a weeks time. If a breeder just wants to use this forum and not contribute you are not going to stop them. They will always find a way around the rules. What if you have a nice shy person who reads the threads but feels uncomforatble about posting? They could have wonderful lines and they have been prevented from telling fellow members about thier puppies/adults. Or they mave have been scared off by some of the comments they read. I keep hearing about how wonderful the people are on the forum- why would you be going elsewhere to buy a new puppy when you have such dedicated members that may have the puppy/adult that you are looking for? I sure would like to buy or use for breeding the stock of someone who shares my thoughts and values. Are we too good to advertise on those other sites? Why would you not want to advetise on those other sites. Let the public know that there are quality puppies from responsible breeders out there. Let the public see that they have a choice. I just happened on this forum by chance- had never heard of it - let alone that is is a place to sell puppies. From what I have seen so far- not many people on this forum purchase anything/ or use for stud anything that a fellow memebr has. They ask "have you heard anything about this breeder? who is not a member and then there is always problems about the puppy/adult they purchased. If I have a choice of using breeder A who is a memeber of this forum and breeder B who is not- I am going to use breeder A. Breeder A is a fellow member and sure does not want bad comments coming out on this forum cause if there are any problems- from what I have seen so far you will hear about it doublefold. I contacted several on this forum and asked to be placed on their waiting list because- I liked what I saw, and I liked them. I got that warm fuzzy feeling.LOL. My instinct told me it was a good match for my goals and needs. There was a old Bible school song about hiding the your light under the basket- Why don't you let it shine- let the not so good breeders know that you are going shoulder to shoulder with them. Let the buyer see what you have to offer compared to the not so good breeder. Maybe we can make some breeders clean up their act- if you cause any improvement you have made a positive effect. If breeders want to advertise on the forum they should have to meet certain guidlines that the administration and forum members have established. But it should be fair. wnalegria wnalegria |
I'm still very new to this forum and it was recommended to me by whispersmom when I asked her for advice on where to advertise for my pups that weren't already spoken for on our waiting list. My first post WAS for my pups available and I read the admin guidelines for posting and tried to include all the info needed. I am not the most tech savvy person around, but I did the best I could. I think a form would be a great idea. Since that post, I have tried to participate in some of the other threads with suggestions and experiences of mine and read many hoping to learn more. There are some very wise and thoughtful people who participate here and it is great to have a place to hear their advice. So, thanks for being there, Stacy |
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I have to side with wnalegria on this issue. Of course I agree that no misleading advertising should be allowed, but... I am confused as to why show breeders would be ashamed to have it known that they sold their pet quality puppies on a "pet site" as you refer to Yorkie Talk? Especially a "pet site" with as many compassionate and caring yorkie fanciers as we have. The comparison of YT to Yorkies Direct is particularly offensive to me because I heard from members that YD turned out to be a "puppymill". I have no personally knowledge of whether this is true or not. I feel that admin has done a commendable job with the guidelines for sales. I feel that the sales area of the forum is a benefit to our membership. We are always advising newbies about the guidelines for buying a puppy and what to look for in the puppy and the breeder. In the end they make the decision, hopefully after gathering the different opinions on here and educating themselves to a point where they feel comfortable with all the aspects they have to consider including price. I am not offended if a breeder, broker or private party comes on here and advertises whatever they have to sell (yorkie related) that might interest our members. At some point we have to realize that people will make their own decisions and we cannot control them completely. There are some members on here who feel you should only buy from YTCA breeders. To my knowledge, and I have asked in the breeder section. there are no YTCA members here. The reason I found out is that the YTCA does not approve of it's members being members of these co-called "pet forums" and they can be asked to resign if they are discovered. As a lover of the breed, this disturbs me greatly. How can we expect our members to buy from reputable show breeders if they are not even allowed to post on our forum? I understand ethics, but just think about WHY the YTCA would be so opposed to pet breeders? These new members who advertised their litter here today sound like people I would like to welcome with open arms. It sounds like they care enough to spend the money to acquire top lines, they have tired showing and sound like they could add a lot to our discussions. I also think they will learn from some of the other members here which can only benefit the breed itself. |
World Champion Line Puppies Not Being a memeber of YTCA does not mean that you do not have to follow thier guidlines. For example I try to follow them when someone calls and asks about a puppy/adult with "a baby doll face" or "teacup" I explain that according to YTCA those terms are not to be used. I used to belong to the YTCA in the 70's and to early mid 80's. I have not changed my views on what I feel is proper and what is not just beacuse I do not belong to YTCA at this time. I am looking into rejoining- but who knows. Just because someone belongs to YTCA does not mean that there can not be problems in how they treat their yorkies or how they treat people who conatct them for a puppy. I saw on this forum a statement about a YTCA member whose dogs were in terrible condition. Was it true I don't know but it could be. Just because you belong to YTCA does not mean you are perfect. If YTCA has become a group of snobs-I guess many people are glad that they are not members. YTCA is restrictive to the pet owner- there are more people who own Yorkies as pets and never breed then those who do. I know some wonderful breederswho are not YTCA membrrs and care deeply about the breed and have high standards of conduct. YTCA is not for everyone. Wnalegria |
admin I would like to apologize to the admin for critizing the policies of YT. It is his forum..and a very good one. He makes the rules and it works for him. I have seen a few great forums ruined and it worried me. I can post my opinions on this subject elsewhere. |
[QUOTE=SoCalyorkiLvr I am not offended if a breeder, broker or private party comes on here and advertises whatever they have to sell (yorkie related) that might interest our members. At some point we have to realize that people will make their own decisions and we cannot control them completely. .[/QUOTE] Well all I can say to this statement is that I for one would be really offended and nervous if the site was opened up to brokers for advertisement. There are new people that may be looking for a puppy and instead of seeing the "good breeders" on here they happen upon a broker who will almost always have puppies. That thought frightens me. I am well aware you cannot control EVERY aspect of the sales on here but I think that should be if nothing else. JMO, but I vote a big fat NO to brokers!!! Dawn |
A broker is simply someone who helps a breeder sell their pups, a third party. Sometimes they purchase the puppies directly from the breeder and some times they just take a "commission" if they sell the puppy. There are many breeders who are friends and join together to help each other out as well as to help the consumer find the exact puppy they are looking for. Some breeders with websites will help out a fellow breeder by placing her puppies on the website. There are reputable breeders on this forum who do this and I find nothing wrong with it. I have come across several excellent brokers in my search for yorkie puppies. As it turns out, every broker I have met was also a breeder in their own right but maybe just didn't have the puppy I was loking for at the time, but referred me to a breeder who did. The word broker gets a bad rap because some people think it means they "are in it just for the money", and they only think of the "puppymill brokers" who sell to pet stores, or the questionable internet sites like DivaPup and Wizard of Claws, but all those that I have met personally have been very reputable and cared about making a good match between puppy and owner for everyone's sake, especially the puppy. I have told many stories on here about the wonderful broker I got Buddha and Hefner from. She is, to this day, one of my number one resources for yorkie questions and she trained me and taught me a lot. She sells for her grandmother who is deaf as well s several other breeders and she knows more than anyone I have ever met about yorkie health care, including the vets and other breeders. She has been breeding for over 30 years with her grandmother and she has saved many puppies that the vets had "written off" because she took the time to do the hard wotk and she knew the medications which work best, etc. Just as there are good breeders and bad breeders, there are also good brokers and bad brokers. Admin's rules state that in order to advertise a puppy for sale, you have to be selling it yourself. That allows for brokers to advertise here and I think he is correct in stating the rules this way. JMHO |
Oh for petes sake Kim, we are going to beat this horse to death AGAIN I can see it coming. There is IMO no such thing as a "good broker" This includes your friends, both the one you got your puppies from and the one you met at petsmart. I have seen one of the websites and only a fool would think she is a "good broker" The way I see it that either makes you a fool or you just see everything through rose colored glasses OR you are just being argumentative because you know it makes some people angry. Now you can report this post. But I think you are doing alot of people here a disservice by continually preaching your good broker speech. |
Kim....uncle..bye! |
Now, now ladies you both have very good points.(shuffles feet nervously..) Thats the great thing about YT there is a broad spectrum of fact and opinion to learn from!! :D (slowly backs up and fades into the shadowed corner, waiting for the catfight to commence..) JK I must admit though I love a heated debate. Hehe :eek: |
there is a chain of events here!!! First the breeder that would sell to a broker is in the business to make money and turn her puppies not place them personally into a caring home. This breeder is quantity not quality. More than likely not knowing much about the pedigree nor the quality of dog she is breeding. She doesnt take personal interest in her stock let alone her offspring and more than likely will never have contact with the buyer of her pups! Then the broker, usually the broker knows nothing about these pups. she/he may have pics and seen them personally (doubtful) but what do they know about the upbringing, temperament and pedigree history! A business transaction is all they are worried about. Sell a pup today, Sell another tomorrow! Usually never to be bothered with followup, knowing how the pup is doing or assisting the new buyers with any questions... What qualifies them to advise! Nothing! Nothing Nothing! Those breeders that sell to brokers and the brokers are in a business deal NOT EVER concerned about who, what, where, when and why! Get em in Get em out! Kim your statements sometimes makes no sense considering you are a well educated person how could you ever consider a breeder/broker relationship other than plain and simple a BUSINESS DEAL! |
there is a chain of events here!!! First the breeder that would sell to a broker is in the business to make money and turn her puppies not place them personally into a caring home. This breeder is quantity not quality. More than likely not knowing much about the pedigree nor the quality of dog she is breeding. She doesnt take personal interest in her stock let alone her offspring and more than likely will never have contact with the buyer of her pups! Then the broker, usually the broker knows nothing about these pups. she/he may have pics and seen them personally (doubtful) but what do they know about the upbringing, temperament and pedigree history! A business transaction is all they are worried about. Sell a pup today, Sell another tomorrow! Usually never to be bothered with followup, knowing how the pup is doing or assisting the new buyers with any questions... What qualifies them to advise! Nothing! Nothing Nothing! Those breeders that sell to brokers and the brokers are in a business deal NOT EVER concerned about who, what, where, when and why! Get em in Get em out! [Quote] Thank you, you were far more eloquent than myself in my post and certainly explained it so much better. Dawn |
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Wasn't this thread originally started with someone selling pups? |
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Thank you very much for speaking what I'm thinking. I appreciate that you took the time to express what you did. Hopefully members are reading everything available to them in this post and will be able to filter through and discard certain statements that been posted. Just because something is repeated over and over doesn't make it any more right the tenth time it was said than the first. Lisa |
OMG!!! I will not say "UNCLE" BUT, I will not post further on this thread, either. Does that mean anything to other members? probably not, but it does to me. This horse named MILLER-BROKER-PETSHOP has been dead so long decomp has set in. If the remains were found, a DNA would be needed to ID it as the horse that was beaten to death a long time ago... |
poor horse :cry: :D |
I vote Dead! Dead is Dead, or at least it should be! |
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Rini...... You are killing me lady! All I can say is... Brilliant! Simply Brilliant!!! And thank you Kimberly for your post... Cheers to the voice of experience and reason! |
Akc International If you want to be technical- any person on this forum who posts- hey I just saw puppies in my local paper priced at $XXX.XX could be called a broker. She is promoting a third parties animals that she may not know anything about the breeder or the puppes. It does not matter that she is getting a financial gain. If a memeber from YTCA refers you to another member they are a broker. I have a dear friend in Kentucky who raises Yorkies- If someone calls her and she does not have what that person is looking for- she will have them call me- I do the same for her. We share the same thoughts, Ideas and values she is 70 years old and has been a Godsend for me. I can be honnest with her and she will listen to what I am saying- if I may not be thinking things through clearly she is there to be open, fair and give good advice. It may not be what I want to hear- but I get it fair and balanced. Do we give each other a commision no- we just care about each other. If she wants to use a male of mine it's hers to use. She does not show- if she has a show puppy that she really likes - she has gave them to me and said have fun kid. So I guess that Clara and I are brokers. All breeders have bought a dog that they thought would fit into their program and for some reason it did not work out as planned and you have resold this puppy/adult. Does this make you a broker? Why are we so obsessed with putting a title on a person that could be quite harmful. Wnalegria |
Can't even hear the echo of a last whinny....Cheers to Rini! |
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I am sure many have an opinion of what a broker means to them, but the definition of a broker is: bro·ker (brkr) 1. One that acts as an agent for others, as in negotiating contracts, purchases, or sales in return for a fee or commission. IMO If no commision is made I believe that would be a referal :thumbup: |
I think that I read something along the lines of: In order to sell your dogs on YT they must be in your possession and YOUR DOGS. You cant advertise a potential breeding asking for deposits or a litter from a currently pregnant dog. Maybe that clears something up... |
wnalegria I am sorry if a breeder sends someone to another breeder that is a referal not a broker! My gosh how things can get twisted around, the mind does tricks.!! If I know of a quality pup available through another breeder I do not heistate if I have none available. Most good breeders live in a tight community, respect one another and wouldnt think twice of recommendation. On My site I have "friends selling pups" page...does that label me a broker NOT! they dont have a webpage and will not advertise in the local papers so I put up their pup pics and THEIR direct contact information, I get nothing from it except a wonderful respectful breeder to breeder relationship! I would never put up a breeder pups that I did not know personally and that I didnt have a open honest relationship with. I just call that being a friend! |
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I find this discussion very interesting and don't believe it should be shut down just because older YT members have beaten the discussion dead along time ago. It's healthy for newbies to hear such a debate. The definition of a Broker in the dictionary is as follows "1. an agent who buys or sells for others on commission. 2. A mediator who negotiates agreements or contracts." I think wnalegria has a point BUT does it fit the definition of what Broker really means? IMO wnalegria makes a good point bringing the fine line closer in the true meaning of what a broker is in this industry of puppy selling. Sadly it is an industry. I think it's essential to remember that there will always be acceptions to the rule and as easy as it is to peg hole an idea that is 99% true it IS possible for there to actually be someone who is recieving a small percent of the sale for say reffering a good friend to thier favorite friend breeder and it doesn't make them a bad person even though technically they would fit the catogory as a broker, especially if the did this more than one or two times every now and then for their friend. Getting the word out to find good homes for good puppies from great breeders sometimes requires word of mouth especially for those that have a sweet little litter and are just starting out and to say that anyone that recieved a small percentage from telling a good friend about a good breeder thus making them a broker and "broker" meaning only someone out for a buck is actually a tiny bit bias. I agree that the MAJORITY of brokers ARE money hungry careless losers that don't give a crap about what they are selling BUT there are acceptions to that ideal. |
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