Less show yorkies= more ugly yorkies?
 

I had to think how to word that title so it fit, lol.

I gotta another question (all theroretical).

Now in my province there is only 1 show breeder and he does not have many puppies a year, and I have never heard of anyone with any of his pups (i know they are out there, probably not many).

But there are too many back yard breeders in this province to count, only around 2-3 that actually give papers (Canadian Kennel Club and all limited, no full).

I have groomed in two parts of the province (central and south) and I see the UGLIEST, mal-formed, badly bred, scary looking yorkies.
So far they all have one or more (usually 3 or more) of these characteristics; over/under bite, roach back, silver, all black, all gold, bad stop, bow legged, luxatting patells, over/under sized, long-long-long legs, too shot legs, no neck, bulging eyes, floppy huge ears, ears that are up but huge, tails docked to the point there is none and I could go on and on...

So, my questions is, in an area where there are less 'show breeders' do the yorkies tend to vary widely from the breed standard???

If people were more exposed to the standard would they be more inclined to want a yorkie that is good quality compared to wanting just any plain yorkie (excluding the cheap people who are only price shopping for the best deal).

For me that is the case, I saw one show quality (obviously at a show) and I was hooked. I wanted the standard. We were thinking of adding a third yorkie and I put the breaks on that...

What is your opinion???

I tend to agree with you, I understand the reasoning for people wanting a yorkie just for a pet so they think they don't need the quality but I am a firm believer that a yorkie should look like a yorkie. I think the standards of the AKC are better and you are more likely to find yorkies that do like like yorkies within that registration, even if they are not show...however, I've only seen one yorkie in real life, besides my two, that actually look like whata yorkie is suppose to look like. Of course mine was bred to be a show dog so I'm probably a little partial looks wise...

quality
 

I will tell you what the vet techs in my old vets office used to say...after I placed my pet quality stock and started over, the Yorkies they saw come in the clinic changed dramatically. No more flop ears and the size was rarely over 6 pounds..I had been plagued with under bites, even had a litter of 4 and all had bad bites... that stopped, occasionally there was a bite that was off, but by a year it was level 90% of the time...stopped having testicle problems, one or both retained...can't remember the last time that happened...
One of the vet techs who bred, began using my studs and started getting show potentials... I OWED it to the show breeders who were nice enough to help by selling me good bitches and allowing me to suse their champion studs...I wasted quite a few years with pet quality stock.

I agree!!! If you want a good looking quality yorkie - chances are you are going to have to have top quality. As the saying goes - most of the time - you pay for what you get! Now I know some people are out there that will try to sell and get high prices for pet quality - but if you do your research and check the quality chances are you will get a better quality/looking yorkie.
When I go to the vets - the vet techs too tells me they see the difference compared to the others. They like the look of mine and they are within the standard size and have prettier faces and silkier coats. Now I have had to show them what to look for -Before they had no clue about the standard.
T.

I think there is a double standard too, for those that are breeding for the standard they are also beeding for health, doing health tests and responsible breeding (I realize there are exceptions but speaking of the majority).
Whereas many 'pet' breeders are not worried about looks, just more cute puppies (then again what puppy is not cute?) and not as many do health testing.

I think and hope your show breeders are breeding for looks (see standard) as well as health. We do both!!
What I have found, not all, but many pet breeders are breeding and not doing the testing before and do not even know the standard. They just like pups! I did say not all - so those of you doing the tests and checking the standard I commend you. We must protect our standard. From my research, many of the yorkie breeders of the past devoted much time and effort into breeding. It was an art form and was taken very seriously. Today we still have some that devote the time too, but we also have a lot of people that are just breeding and know nothing.
T.

Great posting, when I was looking for a yorkie I wanted to make sure I found one that was bred for looks, health and tempermant. There are so many "pet quality" breeders today, who feel they are doing the right thing by offereing less than perfect yorkies for a lower price. It makes me sad in a way, I know the saying is true that you get what you pay for, but wouldn't it be nice, if all yorkies looked like yorkies and were bred for health and looks and priced where people just looking for a pet could own a quality dog.

I do understand some of the high prices to a point. There are so many puppy mills out there that would love to get there hands on some good breeding stock that it makes people leary. When I went to get Jaden I had to have three refrences by other show breeders and my vet and had to be approved by his owner to have him and his asking price was extremely high because of his pedigree.

I know all of this was to ensure he was going to a good home...

Many people though expect to get something for almost next to nothing. We have a lot of money invested in our dogs and the tests are not cheap. There are many buyers out there right now that want a really nice yorkie, great lines, with all the testing for 500. Not happening! And then there are the people that get upset when we want references and will check them out. They think we are invading on their privacy. And you get others that expect a lower price since the pup is spayed/neuter. I will keep my babies rather than sell to anyone not expecting me to check out their references, and I am not just going to give them away either. I understand that times are hard, but if you cannot pay - the breedrs are thinking how are you going to take care of them when they get sick. I had to pay to get really nice yorkies and it was just what I had to pay to get good ones. I accepted it. I wanted to make sure they were tested and had good lines. It all adds up when you buy nice, really nice yorkies. I wanted to show too, so knew I had to pay to get the best. I wanted sound yorkies with beauty and brains. We are showing the ones we have now and also have plans to train them and go to the hospitals and nursing homes. It is our part to make a difference.

I have bought pet yorkies (1,000) before (when my kids were teenagers and before I started showing again) and I can tell the difference.

I too wish the cost of good quaity yorkies were cheaper than they are now, but I do not think it will change. When one pays a lot - really a lot of money (multiple thousands) plus the cost of testing and any pups in return in the future - how can someone paying all that then in turn sell their pups for a lot less. Show people do not include in the cost of their pups what they pay for showing. It doesn't calculate in at all. We just figure it is gone and what it cost to show. Nor is the food and care calculated in. They think of what they paid or the value of their dogs that were breed and the value of its lineage behind the pup, as well as the quality of the pup. Plus I think the testing should also be calculated in. I would rather have a peace of mind knowing the dog/pup is sound and healthy than not knowing and having to pay later.

I prefer to have the ones I have now. I know that a lot of care and thought went into their breedings and it shows! I was happy to pay for the quality and the work that went into producing my beautiful babies I have now.
T.

I agree. I get slammed on here everytime i make that statement about yorkie prices. If you want quality and you want a yorkie that is bred closely to the standard you are going to pay more since the breeder also paid more and put more attention into their breeding stock

I agree with you! I understand where this mind thinking comes from to a point. When I first started looking for a yorkie I was clueless as to the price range and what the standards where. I actually first started looking for a small yorkie 4 pounds or so for $500.00:o As I started learning more about the breed and a went to a few dog shows I realized what I wanted was not a $500.00 yorkie. When I saw Jaden, I had to make an appt with his show breeder, a month in advance just to see her. I had to get on a waiting list, most of her pups go from 4,000-6,000 dollars depending on whether or not they are altered and what your purpose is in having them (for show or pet...)
This is because of the extensive work done in their breeding program, the blood lines, the test ran, etc. When I talked with her, to me, it was like talking to a scientist, breeding to her was like an art form, a sacred science so to speak, and had to be done just so. She would bring up certain traits in Jaden, certain feautres, and could tell me that's because of this champion, and that comes from this champion blood line etc. I take comfort in knowing his genetic health is clean for many, many generations, that all of his relatives have lived long healthy lives and knowing where he came from.

The only reason I went ahead and had Jaden nuetered before I took him home was because of his temperment. His is a bit on the nervouse side, a trait that is considered a flaw in the yorkshire terrier breed. Mrs. Wolpert told me I had the right to breed him if I wanted to, however, if she was keeping him, she would never breed him because of his tempermant. I respected her opinion and figured her, being a champion show breeder would know best in these matters, and I didn't look to get a yorkie for breeding in the first place. I wanted a pet that I could love, but I wanted him to be a first class yorkie and that was what I got. I am sure some people think it is ridiculous to own a show dog for a pet but I wouldn't have it any other way. I only wish that everyone that wanted a yorkie for a pet could have a yorkie that was a sound, quality yorkie. You see so many people today wanting to break the standards and not only have but breed these 10-15 pound yorkies with floppy ears and under bites, I just find the whole thing very sad. I have nothing against over the standard yorkies, they are already born, it's not their fault, they deserve loving homes too...but to breed them, I just can't understand why anyone would want to do that:confused: I was at a local shelter here a few days ago and there were 3 yorkie mixes in there...they had the sweetest personalities but, and I hate to say it, but they were the ugliest things I had ever seen. There legs were too long, their faces were too big and they had all kinds of healthy problems. I just felt so bad for them that some breeder was so irresponsible to allow that to happen.:(

I also find it shocking how often I get complimented on my dogs, everyone I go, from the Vet to the groomers to Petsmart, everywhere people are like "Wow, they are so beautiful, I have never seen a yorkie look like that before! Where can I find one that looks like that?" and I always tell them "This is what a well bred yorkie is suppose to look like, find a good breeder and you can get a quality yorkie." It's just strange and a bit sad how many people who are out there, who really have no idea what a "yorkshire terrier" is suppose to look like because they have never seen one that was bred with the intentions for it to be the best of its breed and within the standard.

I just wanted to jump in here.....

I agree w/ everyone, but wanted to say.

My Mojo is from "show" parents and the breeder had show dogs. When I was looking into a Yorkie, I didn't really care about "show quality" because I knew he would just be, dare I say, a "pet" (course, he is more then a pet). Anyway, he is almost 4 years old (yes, I can NOT believe it) and I only paid $500 for him. Of course, the price now has doubled w/ the breeder for a male dog - as her prices for females. I do not know why she was so low on her prices back then. He had all of his history, testing, etc. And I had to give pages of references, family yesterday, etc. ((which I didn't mind at all)).

Anyway, I just wanted to say, at one time....long ago in a land far away (hee,hee), you could have gotten the standard-show quality Yorkie for less. Course, those days are long gone, understandibly so.

I agree, I got Cali from a BYB and had multitudes of health issues. I know have Pixie from a very long time reputable show breeder Stardust Yorkies and I am hopeful she will remain as healthy as she has been for 13 months. She definately was not inexpensive but I know her breeders reputation, her father is a champion, she is neutered and teeth done. I knew I wanted to get my next one from a show breeder as they are breeding for health and standard, I am by no means saying other breeders are not, it's just I had such problems with Cali's health I decided to wait for the right one to come along ans she did.

Mojo is beautiful and that was what I was trying to say in my earlier posts. I think everyone should have the right to have a show quality dog just for a "pet" without having to pay thousands of dollars. I understand certain bloodline will cost more, things like that. But, I think everyone should be able to have a yorkie that looks like a yorkie and it's just so sad to me that these days it seems 300-500 dollars, if you are looking for a "standard" size yorkie, most of the time, will not get you one that is top quality...I guess like with everything prices go up over time but sometimes, when I look back on the prices some people paid for their yorkies and think about what I paid for mine :eek: Makes me want to go back in time!

Back in the 80's you could get a champion sired female for 500., but those days are long gone. Vet cost has rose too and should be recognized for the increase. Just to get a full blood panel that is $78.00, Bile Acid test is $58.00 and the burcellosis is $37.00, plus the $40.00 office visit for two dogs. Now add this up and this is just the cost to breed then if you have a male double it (Equals - $386.00) or add in stud service, if you do not have a male at a cost of 500. - 850.00 depending on the stud you use. And this is all before pups!!

Then add in mama care when she is PG, x-ray if you get them, delivery post care, and then you have to add in puppy shots and visits until they are 12 weeks of age. Let's see what is this total????

Selling a pup for 500.00 - hard to do if you are doing it right and not give the pups away. Normal yorkie litter is 2-3 pups!! Not hard to figure out that the days of 500. are long gone!!

As I said - the costs all add up - reputable breeders are not making a profit! Larger breed dogs are a lower price, but that is because they have more puppies to spread the cost between all the pups.
T.

It does all add up and the costs do vary due to where you live, etc. No one is saying that it doesn't cost much for breeding....I think everyone knows that for sure, especially those of us who do not breed and who have done our homework when searching for Yorkies. The days of getting a show quality dog (male or female) under $800 is pretty much non-existent (sp) anymore. I am just so glad to have found mine for that price, years ago. Agreed: just like everything else, prices go up as the years go by....breeders have to cover those costs, so therefore the prices for their pups go up too. Nothing wrong w/ that and I think any of us looking for a Yorkie, understand that and have no problems w/ it. If I had known prices would change so much, I would have definitely bought a female years ago too! -- that is for sure!

Wow Jess! I didn't know that you paid that for Bobbi!!! Wow! That is great! Maybe you need to send me a PM on your breeder! hee,hee

That is great you guys! I am very happy for you both, unfortunatly not all breeders have such low prices. You said 27 champions in ped - how many generations? What is it up to the 3rd generation? I heard pass this - not many genes are contributing to their pool. So only add up the champions up to the 3rd and not after that. I know - just passing on what I heard.

Wow, I paid a lot lot more for mine. Average cost I have found for just a nice yorkie is around 2,000 - female. Show prospect 3200. plus puppy back and co-own.

I also forgot to add in bile acid tests for each pup too. It is just so expensive these days.

T.

Thanks and that is great, You are very lucky.
I was just curious on the pedigree to compare and see what I had. I have 11 champions in 3 generations - all but 3 are champions. Mine only go up to 4 generations.
It is a lot more for yorkies here, not too many good breeders. When we moved here from Florida and decided to get another yorkie (the kids were finally old enough) - it was so hard. We ended up driving like 3 hours in one direction just for a pet. But I had shown before and knew what to look for. I spent months looking and interviewing breeders. I had never seen so many dirty homw and yorkies, ugly, oversized, wrong coat texture, big ears, and I could go on!! It probably would have been easier for me just to take a vacation trip to Florida to buy one. There just are not a lot of nice yorkies here in Georgia. I do not know why. It is getting better, but only a few.
T.

There are WAY too mnay UGLy yorkies around. Yes to many people they are cute but there is a standard and when they are so far off from it, I honestly question whether they have the right to call the poor little dog a yorkie...

There is a woman I see walking her 'yorkie' in my town and I cringe everytime I see it...completly silver, no blue, no gold just silver, about 16 lbs, extreme underbite, long floppy ears, fat tail (really odd looking, and undocked), crooked legs, too short legs, long body....AND SHE CALLS IT A PUREBRED YORKIE!!!!

I do my best not birstle up and get defensive when she asks if my yorkies are mixed....no they are no show quality but much closer then hers...(I am nice becuase i am opening a new grooming shop in 3 weeks and don't want to burn any bridges).

I want to show someday...I feel I am getting closer to being ready, and I want to raise yorkies that look like yorkies, a puppy that I can be proud of, puppies that have potential to show also someday.

Topknot I think you are a great breeder and I learn so much from your posts...when I first decided that I wanted to someday show yorkies I was smitten by these breeders who had ch. grandsired puppies, at great prices! Wow they could tell who wasa show dog at 4 weeks! I was SOOO impressed...but I kept learning and studying here and now I just get plain irratated with those breeders, to me that is a 'potential' scam. They do not know how those puppies will turn out, they don't show themselves, and obviously don't know the standard (perhaps there are some exceptions to the rule but for the most part). I am glad I waited and wanted to know yorkies inside and out, I am thankful for ethical breeders here.

It is expensive...no question about it, but if someone is doing this right they know they will be in hole (financially) to reach their goals of improving the breed.

When we got our first two yorkies we were newly married, in school, poor as church mice, lived in apratments...
Fast forward 5 years (hard to believe I have been a yorkie owner now for 5 years...), I have 2 children, my yorkies, hubby is an engineer at a pretigious firm, we have a new car, bought our first house, I own a grooming business...we are much more educated dog wise, and shaping our lives better so that this can be a hobby we can pursue properly.

I still have some hurdles to overcome and things to learn before I am 100% ready to show but I am making steps and taking the necessary time.

I agree completely!!! :p I so far have spent almost $3,000 into this littler of 2 pups I have right now. (C-Section)

I am not sure about the prices of Yorkies in the 80's but I am a new breeder and would not be able to sell my puppies for that little ever! When you purchase your Yorkie for $1,000-$2,000 dollars, go through the necessary testing. Breed her and your stud. Take her to the vet for all her checks. My Trini was taken twice, appx. $40 each time, when she was about 4-5 weeks and again when she was almost 8 weeks. Pay for x-rays $180. Delivery supplies, whelping box, heating pad, hemostats, towels and everything else. Delivery time and not to mention if something went wrong. You are risking to loose your female!! We paid over $2,000 for my Trini's C-Section. Dock the tails and dew claws on the puppies (I thinkit was) $40 each, first exams, 3 sets of shots and the list goes on. Then time with your pups socializing them and grooming them, paper/pad training them. It's not about a profit as much as it is about recouping the costs you put into it and sometimes, with just two puppies you loose out but make up for it in the next litter. It is just the cost of getting a pup that comes from a good, clean home where the people are dedicated to breeding quality Yorkies. :p

I too would rather pay more to get more...lol, but what was this thread about in the first place. Sorry, I think I'm a little off topic.

Just my 2 cents... :p

trini&coco - you are right. I think that cost has to be considered when buying and making the big spluge to fork out the big bucks if you want a nice yorkie. The topic was less show yorkies - more ugly yorkies. I too have seen so many ugly, non-standard yorkies now than when I first started to show back in the 80's. Why??? Because - so many people are breeding and do not know what they are doing. They don't even know what a pedigree is! Breeding is not about getting two yorkies together. It is an art form and should be taken serious. Yorkies are being breed so fast with most no concern on the standard - very similar to what was happening to the toy poodles back in the 70s and 80s. And look what happened to them. I do not think things will improve until yorkies become less popular and slide back down on the AKC list of most popular breed. I just hope people understand and try to educate themselves, before we have more major problems!!! If you do love yorkies - read up and study the standard, learn about lines, and test before breeding as well as test your pups.
T.

that is terrible
i guess all the out of standard yorkies are just garbage
if i shouldnt call brownie a yorkie i guess i dont belong here especially since hes UGLY
just because her dog is different doesnt mean her dog isnt purebred
i tryed to stay out of this thread just cause of the title

[QUOTE=k2p1e;923095]There are WAY too mnay UGLy yorkies around. Yes to many people they are cute but there is a standard and when they are so far off from it, I honestly question whether they have the right to call the poor little dog a yorkie...

There is a woman I see walking her 'yorkie' in my town and I cringe everytime I see it...completly silver, no blue, no gold just silver, about 16 lbs, extreme underbite, long floppy ears, fat tail (really odd looking, and undocked), crooked legs, too short legs, long body....AND SHE CALLS IT A PUREBRED YORKIE!!!!

I do my best not birstle up and get defensive when she asks if my yorkies are mixed....no they are no show quality but much closer then hers...(I am nice becuase i am opening a new grooming shop in 3 weeks and don't want to burn any bridges).

I want to show someday...I feel I am getting closer to being ready, and I want to raise yorkies that look like yorkies, a puppy that I can be proud of, puppies that have potential to show also someday.




I tried to keep quiet but this is just not right. Its fine that you want to breed Yorkies that are closer to the standard but it doesn't mean yorkies that are out of standard are not yorkies and they do not deserved to live and be loved and have a caring owner! If you read yorkie history, they were way bigger! Standard is just a measurement set by people period. I do not have a standard yorkie and even if I have, I would have said the same of what I have said.

I think what she was trying to say - is that if your yorkies are not within the standard - do not breed them. And people should know what they are doing before just getting two together.
I know how you feel and you love your baby. This is great! Thank God there are people that do love their yorkies - no matter how out of standard they are.
We just want people that decide to breed - learn and make educated decision to help the breed standard - not ruin it.
T.

OH HUSH !!! BROWNIE IS A HANDSOME Yorkie Dude !!! That boy has so much expression and personality that he's ALL yorkie :thumbup: :thumbup:

k2p1e...I think the statement was a little harsh especially on a pet lovers forum - sometimes things are better NOT Said or maybe said a little nicer :) :) :) There may be lots of non standard yorkies out there but its hurtful for those who love them hearing someone call them ugly - they aren't.

I have a larger yorkie and he is not ugly hes pretty cute actually. I dont think there is anything wrong with people wanting their yorkies to be in the standard I know thats what I want for My next one. But to say they arent a purebreed if they are over the standard in weight or the wrong color is being very harsh. I have a yorkie who is close to the standard and My 10 lb yorkie is just as cute as she is