Idea weight for show?!? I was just wondering what is the ideal weight for a show quality yorkie?? I know it's not over 7 lbs...but I am wondering what is too little....I would assume under 5lbs for a female because they'd be too little to breed...but I am not sure...and what about the males. Just curious is all....as I've heard people say they've bought/sold puppies because they weren't going to make weight to show. |
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Actually at the shows I have been to I see yorkies of all sizes in the ring. The smaller females that are under 5 lbs usually have a harder time competing and do not normally finish as easily. I have seen males and females under 5 lbs that have become champions but I would say most are in the 5 to 7 lbs range. Some of the top winning yorkies are over 7 lbs. The larger yorkies are able to compete better in the group ring. Those yorkie exhibitors that have been showing for a long time have learned what the different judges prefer. Some judges more consistently put up the smaller yorkies and some will put up the bigger ones. There is so much more to consider than weight when judging yorkies. Yorkies all have different body structure. In the ring you might have two yorkies that are the same exact weight but at a glance one might look bigger than the other. Some are tall and fine boned and some have a short cobby body. To me the leggier yorkies have a more elegant movement. You just have to look at the structure of the dog. |
Thanks!! I've noticed that the smaller yorkies seem to be more popular in pet owners, but for show, it's the opposite...and I always wondered why... It seems like yorkies, in general can vary a lot....not only in size and bone structure, but in looks as well. I have one that's tall with a thin bone structure and one that's short and cobby...and you're right, my tall, leggy guy definitely has a prettier gate than my short legged guy. My short one's gate reminds me of a bulldog....neither of course, are show quality, but I can definitely see what you mean through watching them move. My taller, leggy one is actually 1/2 the weight of my shorter, cobby one as well. |
I agree 100%. Sadly, the main focus of the conformation ring as a "proving ground for your breeding prospect" fallen by the wayside. Much of the Yorkshire Terrier breed standard is so ambiguous that too much discretion is allowed the judges in placing classes. To become successful in the show ring, one must carefully select and show to the judge(s) whose interpretation of the breed standard and/or the judge's personal preference most closely matches your dog/bitch. Then the show politics comes in to play. I have actually been ringside and heard judges ask breeders/handlers "what they need" and have the judge place the class accordingly. Quote:
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I always thought that the smaller females weren't shown in rings because of the same reason. Same as showing an altered male. If you can't breed them for the betterment of the breed, why show? (Not that I agree with any of that, but that's always been what I understood) |
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You are so correct about the yorkie standard. It gets so confusing because there are so many different looks within the yorkie breed. |
Yes, smaller females don't usually get the winning points. Note I say usually. There are some that will show a smaller female for the sport of getting out there and practicing their technique. I had one female as a pup that had it all and then stopped growing and stayed at 4 pounds. She was not getting the points. I asked a judge one day after ring time and she told me any points on this bitch would be wasted (she could not be bred). This happened in the beginning if my career when I was learning. She was spayed and was a pet from that show on. And what that judge said made total sense! And yes, there are some judges that prefer the smaller type. But all in all, the most wins go to females between 5 - 7 pounds. I prefer 6 pounds. Males - I have never seen a 3.5 pounds or less show in the confirmation ring. Yes, weight is Not the most important. It is about movement, balance, structure, coat, and temperament. Yorkies are terriers and must show confidence in the ring. You want a nice silky straight coat with good color. You want a straight topline as they move as if they could carry a cup and saucer on top of their backs. Judges also look at measurement of eyes, head, ear placement, and muzzle. When showing you have to take in account at what is in the ring that day. That is what the judge has to pick from for placement. |
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Showing has definitely been of strong interest to me and when I got my girl I followed her lines and definitely went into it with the intent to show. Turns out I had a lot of foundation to develop just as far as our relationship and being a dog owner goes - and it has been a great journey :) I love my girl :love: Anywho, I have intentionally attended a few shows over the last four years or so - specifically to watch the yorkies- and have done some reading in the attempt to educate myself, though it seems as though there is limited literature (at least structured in the way I want it to be: Clear, Step by Step, how to) to be read on the subject. What I have read and found to read easily though, is breed standard and expectations and I find myself, within this thread, with a question...isn't weight specifications for show restricted to the AKC breed standard of 4-8lbs? Mind you, I am uneducated on this subject so I am hoping that the clever show seasoned ladies of yorkie talk will tell me :) My girl turned out to be a teeny tiny even though with her parentage and among her siblings and charting she was more likely to be larger. |
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Kirsten McGregor has some good videos on show preparation and training, I am sure if you google her you will find those videos for sale. For an oldie but a goodie overall with very clear examples see: Rachel Page Elliotts Dogsteps: What to look for in a Dog. The AKC breed standard does not list a range of pounds - just not to exceed 7lbs. It is best to attend a show handling class or three, where you will get step by step instructions. Remember this is a practical skill you are trying to learn so hands on practice is necessary. They will show you how to gather the lead in your hand, where to place the collar and how to keep it taut without being too tight. How to stack your dog. There are some good videos on YouTube for this as well. This helps you to learn how to practice intelligently with your dog. You can also attend at some shows Practice conformation rounds, that is fun and the judges are really out to help each exhibitor. There are a lot of moving parts when you step into that ring. You have the judges instructions (which you need to hear) even if your dog is acting up:) Staying a correct distance from your competitor - you don't want to crowd the dog ahead of you. And while there is a standard way of going through the judging session, just when you become comfy, you will get a judge vary it up. No stacking first, Go around, and then go around again, do the down n back. Now I will examine. Just a for instance of how a judge might mix it up on you. That is why it is very good to watch how that judge you are under today handles his ring; that is to try to limit the surprise on your part when you walk into the ring. Don't just watch how the Yorkies are handled, take videos of most of the toy breed moving and being handled in the ring. Then walk over to the terrier group, after all Yorkies are terriers:) As a handler you want to present your dog and show off their best attributes. You got a good moving Yorkie? Well take that whole length of the down and back mat. And btw the Mat is there for your dog and NOT YOU. You should be on either side of the mat with your dog prime center piece in the middle. Now to show off the best attributes you need to know what they are. A fine head? A dead level top line? A sweet expression? A perfect coat? THis would then go into finetuning the stack presentation. Treats or called baiting in the ring. Well you got to learn how to handle that. Many pro handlers put the bait in their mouth. I only do that when I have real meat or chicken, and it took me years to carry bait in my mouth, and actually have a conversation with the judge:D Mainly we use our pockets for bait. Some judges will force you to show under loose lead, and you betta be ready for that. In fact in one fantastic seminar I went to, the judge spent 30 minutes practising with us, so that we would show any dog under loose lead. A trot, is a trot, is a trot...... Welllllllllll............. Somewhat. Each dog has a preferred best shown at trotting speed. You learn this through self videoing and varying your speed at the trot. Or practise with a knowledgeable partner. There are methods to train and teach your dog how to extend their trot, and they are well worth the effort. Also video your dog free moving, not under lead, somewhere safe, like in your fenced in backyard, hopefully you will see that wonderfull fluid trot happen. For Yorkies what I have found given my height of 5'3" I can extend my legs and walk fast and usually can get most Yorkies at their fullest extended trot. You when you show depending on the size and preference of your dog, need to extend your pacing. If your normal pace length is 10" then you want to extend to what is practical for you to do, maybe it is up to 16" or 18". You need the right shoes to do this with. NO HEELS or stilettos out in the ring, for you you want a non slip sole on your shoe. And so you practice varying the length of your stride. Truly it can be very fun, experimenting learning, and finally achieving your goal. Good luck in the rings |
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You are more than welcome. Hope you are having fun in the ring:) |
I found it interesting that at the St Louis show in August there will be a Cut Down Class. Coat must be cut down, dogs may be neutered or spayed. I'm am not very experienced, but I have not seen this before so was very intrigued. |
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It said grand champions, champions, and any others as well, but no show cut. |
good information provided on this thread, thanks. |
Maybe this could be it's own thread, but why don't we have weigh in's at shows? Seems pretty simple logistically. The standard clearly states "Must not exceed 7 lbs". |
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Good Explanation about why no weigh ins at show for the yorkie. " |
Thank you bjh, that was a very good explanation. That makes perfect sense. I went and looked up the word "must" in the dictionary and it is vague enough to support the historical precedent to not have weigh ins. However, I do think the word has an implication of requirement. You must eat food to live", "You must follow the law". Still the word can be used as "feel urged to; ought to" i.e. " I must buy that book". Semantics aside. Let me ask you a question because it's fun to think outside the box. Wouldn't weigh ins be an innovative, modern way to help a judge? In sports, I have seen that to often the answer as to why things are done is "because we have always done it that way". I don't like to think that way. If there is a better way to do something then why shouldn't you do it? How easy would it be to do? How would it hurt the judge or the breed? I'm not suggesting an 8 lb male be immediately disqualified, but whats the downside of having that weight be known? What IS the weight limit? Is it 10 lbs, 15, 20? At what point are you beyond the standard. If a judge consistently puts up dogs that are over sized doesn't that hurt the breed on some level? As an exhibitor wouldn't you want to know the weights of the dogs the judge has put up before? Wouldn't this save time and money for exhibitors? If you can see statistically, that a judge prefers dogs over 7lbs wouldn't that help you choose what dogs you enter? What do you guys think? |
I would rather see a height maximum than have a weight in the standard. A very tall, fine boned, skinny yorkie could weigh as little as a small yorkie that has good bone and body. |
Personally I think 7 lbs maximum for a yorkie is to small. I agree with Michelle that a height limit might be more fair. Those exhibitors that show regularly pretty much know their competition and the size of the dogs they go against. Those experienced exhibitors usually know what kind of yorkie the different judges prefer. Of course it is not always easy to predict what a judge will do because it really depends on the competition on each particular day. |
I think a height measurement would be awesome to. In every sport, you will see height and weight listed with the competitor. Why not record the height and weight of each dog, not to disqualify a dog but to add more statistical data. Imagine the stats you could generate with data all across the country. We could compare states or regions. Wouldn't you want to know the average size of winning yorkies in Ohio as compared to California? Which states have the biggest Yorkies that win or the smallest. This does not have to be limited to Yorkies why couldn't all breeds benefit from this type of statistical data? bjh again you make such an interesting point with "Personally I think 7 lbs maximum for a yorkie is to small." I found this fascinating, because I really respect you, I'm interested in why you think this? You also pointed out "Those experienced exhibitors usually know what kind of yorkie the different judges prefer." I think you are exactly right. I don't think this is a good thing. Couldn't this even the playing field a little bit. It is about the dogs right? We want the best dog to win? For the judges, they could be helped by statistical data, even if they look at the numbers after the show to self evaluate it would very helpful to them. Information is a powerful tool, why not use it. |
When we discuss weighing in, and or changing the standard to account for height, that is a big conversation. Not to say not to have it, but when the Yorkie was first recognized in England the founders of the breed had a vision for that breed. We many, many generations later are keepers of that vision. We need to thoroughly understand that vision, and critically review our standard to see if that vision is supported by our standard. If our current vision of the breed is different to the original founders then that is another big discussion. I think a key point in the above discussion is; a value if you will that *form follows function**. Historically Yorkies were ratters, was that the vision of the founders, to create a better more versatile ratting dog? Or was it something different? Typically today Yorkies do not serve that function, in fact few serve any working function, other than a more general one to serve as companion dogs. And there is nothing wrong with that. But I think you can see where I am going with the conversation; namely that changing of the standard is not something that should easily be done, and a massive re-direction of standard requires a whole lot of time and discussion. |
Swan, yorkie size is just a matter of preference. I have been raising yorkies for over 16 years and I just prefer yorkies in the 6 to 8 lb range. There are some breeders that prefer those under 5 lbs. I have never bred a female under 5 lbs. It is hard enough for the larger yorkies to have pups. I just can't imagine a poor little 3 to 4 lb yorkie having pups. It is to risky. For show I believe the larger yorkies are just better movers and more elegant. For me the larger yorkies are just more breathtaking when they are in full coat. Have you read this interesting article in the interpretation of the Yorkshire Standard by Carolyn Hensley?: Young Yorkies Present AKC Standard Yorkshire Terriers Explained by Carolyn Hensley I recommend anyone that breeds yorkies should read and understand the AKC standard for the Yorkshire Terrier. I have been told by a number of show exhibitors that they go by the 3 strike rule when it comes to showing. That means if a dog has 3 or more faults then it should not be shown. Of course there are some faults that are so serious that it would only take one fault for the dog to be unshowable. Some faults that are borderline might be acceptable but some faults like a really bad front, rear or topline might prevent a dog from being shown. Also a Yorkie that is to shy would not be a good show prospect, even if it is near perfect structure wise. Another thing to consider about size is that some yorkies continue to fill out and mature until they are 4 or 5 years old. You can have a beautiful bitch that weighs 6 to 7 lbs when she finishes her championship at age two but after maturing and having pups she could easily reach 8 or 9 lbs. As for changing the Yorkshire Terrier standard, that would have to be done by the YTCA and from what I hear is that there is a lot of disagreement in the club over lots of issues. It's just like politics in our country, everyone has their own opinion on how things should be done and it is hard to get people to come together and agree on things. |
Another thing on moving - and yes the taller Yorkies well put together will move and cover ground in a very eye pleasing way. the thing I want to mention is the closer to rectangular the dog is the more his/her trot can extend! And it is a temptation to breed longer than tall. I have found that my eye really needed to adjust to the smaller Yorkies when evaluating their movement. I prefer a Yorkie with a slightly longer body length to height -say 5% longer than tall. And like BJH I prefer the YT's closer to 6-7 lbs. But what-ever the weight and height, I want solid bone structure. Well developed bones. No matchstick legs please! It took over 5yrs to change the USA standard for the BRT, and the discussions were exhausting to say the least. I know with many judges I talked to doing the judging seminars most judges would prefer a very detailed standard - the more detail the better! Breeders are of mixed viewpoints (of course). There is an old saying; get three breeders in the room, and neither one will agree on anything with the other :-) The three strike rule is one I work with as well. But some health issues while not talked about in the standard are of such concern that the dog should not be bred...... And I am very biased for correct Temperament. I like the Molosser judging form. Each dog is evaluated structurally and there are different categories and each category is weighted differently per breed of dog. So you might have Coat Colour Head Topline Gait Attitude/Temperament etc all these total up to 100 pts. And gaiting is a heavy hitter in all Molosser breeds as is Temperament. Molosser dog club is for working breeds only, so a Molosser title is one that many working dog breeders want. An interesting exercise for you to perform is to first establish the categories and then assign a pt value for each category. Then speak with experienced breeders and see where they might differ from you. For YT You might look at these Categories Head - includes Expression/ Shape - Earset/Earsize - Eye color - 8pts Bite - correct Scissor bite? 10 pts Structure - Balanced? Shoulders? Rear? Topline 22 pts Color - Correct Tan/Steel Blue 15 Coat 15 Gait 15 Temperament 15 Tadaa Finished......... |
My little one isnt so little anymore, lol. Her mom was a little over 3 :( and her dad was 5, my furbaby is already over 8. Doesnt matter to me, she is perfect :) |
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