Mentor needed
 

I have found a breeder for my next puppy. I want to dabble in the ring & will be looking for a mentor in my area. Of course I want to spend some time learning pre-puppy, so if any of you are nearby, just let me know.

I have also seen on AKC site that I can apply for one here in my area. Also, a question if you please....with female dogs, do you have to miss potential shows because of heat cycles? It would seem to me that you would. Just wondered how you get around these things if it's possible, or if that's the reason there seem to be more males in the ring?

There are several confirmation shows coming up in the next few months in Cincy & Columbus that I plan on attending to observe. Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

If your breeder is selling you a show puppy, she must be very knowledgable about yorkies and showing......Unwritten rule, the person selling you a show puppy also takes on the mentorship.....Double wammie on the responsibility; the responsibility of selling a show worthy pup (it's the breeder's reputation in the ring; and the responsibility of mentorship (it's also the breeder's reputation in the ring).

And in answer to your question. It's very dependent on how your female behaves during her heat cycle.....If the harmones are real wacko, and she becomes coy and refuses show....well you can't force her. If her heat cycle doesn't change her personality, then show her. But, becareful that she doesn't drive the boys nuts.

Actually you usually see more females in the ring. What you do see is more male Specials, because the breeding time line for a female is less.

As Mardelin said usually your breeder is your mentor in the show world;however here is a site you might like to study: Conformation Stacking

It uses clicker training but you don't have to use clicker training.

Here is one beginning exercise you can do preferably with a show lead, but can be done with a regular lead to. The object here is not to have the lead sway or swing when you walk, and that the lead hangs down directly from your hand to its clasp.

You place the lead in your left hand and you simply walk in a show circle. ie counter clockwise. Vary your pace. Also keep elbow tuck into your body at about waist height with arm turned away from you about ninety degrees. Stop and start smoothly. Now do same exercise with the down and back.

Figure out what are the shoes you want to wear in the ring. No heels, no open backed or toed shoes. Preferably crepe soled, or a non slip sole.

Also investigate if there are local breed clubs in your area, that teach conformation showing. But again clear all through with your mentor.
Have fun, and good luck in the show ring.

Good info Gail.

Quiet shoes are a must....you don't want them to squeek or clomp or make any noise what so ever......it freaks out the other dogs in the ring.

What I usually tell newbies to do before puttin a lead on their dog is to practice on with the lead first.......tie your keys to the end of the lead....hold the lead in the proper position, not allowing excess lead out of your hand, keeping that lead very still while you walk, you don't want your dog's head bouncing up and down......once you learn that then begin working with the
dog.....

There is an excellent DVD put out by Sweetie Blue on how to train a pup for the ring.

She is on the other side of the country to me, so being my mentor would be difficult at best.

Thanks for the DVD info Mardelin & the confirmation stacking info Gemy. I've been reading a lot, & those kind of things were my next questions...lol.

I think this is an interesting subject, glad mauirobin posted this thread.;)

Mardelin, can you share an idea as to what one might expect to spend for a "show quality" puppy?

After the initial investment for a show quality puppy, is there still a chance even after the cost and training that goes into this dog, that it might not make it to the ring?

What kind of screening process does a potential breeder with such a dog expect of a possible new owner interested in showing?

I guess what I'm asking is what is a breeder looking for in a person seeking out a mentor for the purpose of showing or breeding?

Is the person's financial ability a priority that must be proved...can they afford what comes after the initial investment of the cost of the dog?

Am I correct that most reputable breeders begin by showing? So, if one is looking for a mentor to show, they might in fact have a bigger vision down the road in breeding?

Thanks!:)

I think Mary is at a show and will be gone for a few days, but lots of great questions. From my understanding, it's not the amount of money you have, it what kind of heart you have. You know, "Why, why, why, do you want to breed?," and "Are you willing to be patient, and learn first how to do it right?" I always think of the first Karate Kid movie and Mr. Miyagi when I think of this. Lot of "Wax on, wax off" before actual breeding begins. You should have a great deal of respect for you mentor, "Many are called, few are chosen." :D

Thanks, and I totally agree but, I think if one realistically knew in the very beginning what might be financially expected to accomplish such a vision it might be food for thought.

Like when I was in high school...I dreamed of my first car as a BMW but, my savings said VW...reality check can be key sometimes.

ps. just wanted to add, not to sound like a debbie-downer or that one should allow $$$ to stand in the way of their dreams because, eventually I did drive my dream car...lol ;)

I think it's important to hold on to your dreams and if you are want something for the right reasons, you will be happy with the results. Too many people rush into something because they want it for the wrong reasons.

So true...;)

I'm a little bit shocked that a breeder with show-quality puppies would send one to someone across the country. Will it be coming home with open registration? I thought that a show dog had to be unaltered and if that's the case then why would any reputable breeder allow a puppy to go to a home of someone they cannot closely mentor themselves. If I were working on a breeding program with show prospects I would not personally allow someone to take one of my pups without altering them first unless I could personally mentor the new owner in the show ring and make sure that new owner wasn't breeding my lines without me there helping.

Just sayin....

An news on the future baby?

The vast majority of the time...the pups are co-owned and there are strict guidelines in place regarding breeding including sometimes approval of the stud that will be used.

Yes there is still a chance after the investment that a show quality pup, somehow shows a major fault, that was not present or even thought of at the time of purchase. Of course those chances go down the longer you as the breeder keep the pup, and you as the purchaser holds off on purchase.

For example LS can crop up even after one or two years old.
Temperament, for some reason that goes off. The dog gets a huge scare in the show ring, and you and the myriad of trainers can't seem to bring them through that.
PRA the first test is one year old. You start to show at 6/7/9 mths old. and whamee

Now in terms of financial "abi lity" that can be very fluid in given situations. But I think there does have to be at least some financial ability to care for the show pup. We are talking about resources of time, energy, willingness, and finally money. Usually top quality products and food, exercise time, and show training time at the minimum. Some breeders certainly given physical proximity will actually want to show the pup themselves. All will expect you to continue the show training they started. There are probably as many different agreements as there are leaves in a tree.

For me and my breeder, who knew me for years, trained me in obedience with another breed, it was a "trust" given to me. She knew I had the skills, desire, and wherewithal to show our boy to his CH. But the trust was manyfold. For eg: that I would not try to breed this boy, without her consent or authority. That I would keep this boy safe from my other much larger breed. That I would train my boy in at least one other sport.

Not all ppl who show actually want to be breeders of that particular breed. Some will do it for the absolute love of the breed, because they like to enjoy the sport of conformation. But certainly they would have shown commitment to the purebred dog, in the breeders eye, and are trustworthy. These folks may be a minority, how small I have no idea.

A show puppy cost. well it is not cheap let us say $2500 and up.

Also if you can not for whatever reason handle your pup to a CH, with a very good quality pup, you are looking at $2-$3K for that championship and upwards, as competition and points are not a given, and it may take some time to earn those points against enough other dogs.


My thoughts

This is a really interesting thread. It raises one question in particular for me. What is the exhibitor's/breeder's motive for mentoring? I would imagine there are more "novices" out there wanting to show that there are show people willing to share their knowledge, although I could be completely wrong about that. Plus, I imagine mentoring takes a bit of time and energy so it is quite a commitment. When I saw the original post I thought asking for a mentor was odd, but now that I think about it, how would you go about finding one?

I think I would fall into this category. I got my Nicco 4 years ago, hoping to show him, but had absolutely no desire to breed him. I see the irony in that statement. Isn't a show dog being judged on their fitness for breeding? The champion is supposed to be the best example of the breed and therefore good breeding "stock" (I don't like that word).

you have to show strong interest in showing and in the LONG run gain trust of the breeder to eventually own, show, and breed their line. it's not to be taken lightly and the relationship takes YEARS to build and make a concrete and solid connection. a mentor won't waste time on someone that isn't going to CH. their dogs and that isn't in the long run planning to breed their line with them. it's hand and hand, showing and breeding. and no reputable show breeder with known champions is going to trust their show prospects with anyone. usually for several years the breeder's name goes on as owner or co-owner of the dog...eventually they MIGHT allow it to be owned by the mentee and eventually years and years of helping in whelps and research and learning they MIGHT allow the mentee to have a dog on open reg. and assist that person in their very first breeding and whelping until the mentee can start to do them on their own....a very good mentee might and this is a BIG might...earn the right to continue the lines when the mentor retires or passes on. every line will need a sucessor, but that's a LOT of weight and responsibility to your mentor and their life's work.

breeders if anything i'm saying is wrong or off please correct me, this is my general idea of what i personally would be signing up for if i did decide to become a show breeder.

Some people call themselves a mentor and it's just because they want to sell a breeding dog, and say, "I'll mentor you". Mainly they mean, "call me if you need help whelping". Other people are really in love with the breed and natural born teachers. Maybe they had a great mentor and it's their way of thanking their mentor. I imagine seasoned breeders have their eyes peeled for people who might make great breeders. I've read that the way to find a good mentor is start by going to local shows.

You can apply for one on the AKC site. I do understand actually ending up with a puppy that is show-quality is a long "maybe". There are also Obedience & Agility shows that could be just as fun in my book.

It's something I have always wanted to do, if it doesn't pan out, then it doesn't pan out. I cannot obviously afford to keep buying puppies until one does, I don't think any-one could. Not to mention, I would probably have to sell my house & buy a much bigger one to have the room...lol.

As far as breeding my "own" line, I don't think I would be able to do that for the same reason above. There was another link posted somewhere here on YT about judging for conformity shows, & it stated that their toes can be spread, pads cracked, etc. from the owner/handler keeping them in kennels to "protect" their hair. The link was an article from the judges' viewpoint on how to judge yorkies. I don't like kennels, so this would be a problem for me.

I have a single ranch with a huge fenced-in yard. My household expenses for the first time in my life, are minimal. My only expenses for the past few years are pretty much vetting/grooming. I was in restaurant management for 30 yrs, and now only work about 34 hours a week, with a very flexible schedule. I do have the time to start crossing off my "bucket list" items, of which dog-shows are one, and I do need something to get me out of the house besides work. My family is 4 hours away, so I find myself not doing much these days except spending time with my dogs.

As far as breeding...my step-father bred bassets & beagles, my mother bred toy poodles & pekes. My hubby bred dachshunds. I'm no stranger to breeding, I grew up with it, but this is not what I wish to do.

I know it's hard to get into the show without breeding your own, but I want to try. lol, that's probably one of the reasons I want to, as I've always been one to make things harder than they need to be...or so I'm told:P I also think obedience & agility would be great to get into too....so if my pup turns out to not be "show-worthy", I still have other options open to me. My current yorkies are CKC registered, so those avenues are closed.

The odds that any pup I purchase will go all the way? Very slim I know...but what fun we will have trying!

Oh, & on the very slim chance that my pup would become champion & needed to be bred? You bet your britches, I'll be headed back to his breeder for that...lol.

I don't have first hand knowledge, but I would say the best mentors seek to better the breed and to contribute to the community. Think of teachers or business people who mentor, or even a master gardener who oversees a gardening club. It's enriching to the individual and the community. A really good mentor can build a lasting legacy. That would be a very satisfying accomplishment.

Sounds like you have been surrounded by at least three breeders and maybe your own breeding. I noticed in your album Yogi & Buttons have had a litter so, in my mind that makes you also a breeder.

Your blog included a comment that stopped me dead in my tracks wondering why you would want to take this next step when you wrote:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/blo...omes-home.html

"At this point I am convinced that Yorkies are cold-hearted creatures that have no emotions, but they have a heart-melting-darned-cute face"

:confused:
You must not have read the whole blog because you are insinuating I don't like Yorkies by pointing out the sentence I used to describe how Button's was reacting to everyone. Or...you pull out one sentence that makes it look like I don't like Yorkies on purpose. Both are pretty telling statements on their own, but you have already insulted me in the past, & insinuated lack of finances, of which you know nothing about, on this thread.

This thread was asking for info & an experienced person nearby to help me learn about the show ring. If I was only concerned with breeding, I would have continued to breed my CKC dogs...kept my mouth shut, bought two AKC dogs with an excellent pedigree, bred them & no one would be the wiser.

As I stated before, I cannot possibly have a good breeding program here, I won't put dogs in a kennel, etc...therefore breeding my own dogs is out.

Yes, Yogi & Button's had a litter of 2 pups...free whelped, all I did was cut & tie the cords. But I cried all the way to Columbus during both trips when I GAVE 1 pup to my daughter, & the following weekend when I GAVE the 2nd pup to friends of theirs. Oh, wait....I forgot the 2nd pup was breech, I had to assist it's entry into the world, so I did a little more than cut/tie.

Point is, if they didn't go to my daughter & her friends a few houses down from her, I would NOT have been able to give them away. I was attached...Not being able to give up puppies is not an asset of a breeder. Which is why, as I have stated, I will leave that part to the breeders.

I was asking for show info, or some help in my area of the country. If you have nothing to add that hasn't been your usual :rollseyes:, snotty comments or insinuations, or insulting my intelligence in the Wow thread then just ignore my threads/posts, as obviously I must offend you in some way.

Not sure how you felt my initial post to your thread was singling you out...I even thanked you for such a good thread topic.

Was simply puzzled about your blog comments...I'm glad to hear tho' that your statement was not to be taken serious but, just one made off the cuff. Thank you also for clarifying about your breeding experience as well.

As for the "Wow" thread, I never even connected you to being the OP until you pointed that out just now. I believe my initial post in that thread was to disagree with your insinuation that YT members could tend to be in general nuts, rude, etc.

This online community is based on those who have a deep love and respect for the Yorkie breed. There may be times that YT members will take a stand for exactly that reason and unfortunately sometimes others feel slighted instead of understanding where they are coming from.

Also, out of respect for your sensitivity to my use of emoticons, I have refrained from using any.

Have a nice night.

I was asking people to "play nice". Here is that part of the thread that you pointed out in that thread, bold parts were highlighted by you...
"They will figure out the rest for themselves if they hang around & read. If you scare them off their first day, we have not educated them, & they actually leave us uneducated, & with a feeling that we are just nutz over here. I'm sorry, but I have seen a few members who seem to thrive on starting controversy in threads. They have tons of posts, so I'm aware that they are probably valued members here and I am sorry if I have offended anyone."

How you got that I was calling YT members nuts or rude out of this, I don't know. I actually feel that you didn't get that notion from this statement, but once again, posted a half-truth to start controversy, as you did pulling one sentence out of my blog.

To the rest of you who helped me here, I thank you whole-heartedly, & apologize that once again a thread turns. I told myself several times that I would ignore this person ever since my first weeks here. I did not do such a good job this time.

Thanks again Gemy & Mardelin for your info...I would have never even thought about the shoes!

I'm not sure if the first statement meant obtaining your mentor from AKC?
Whil you may apply....a mentor/trainee relationship is very deep.....it is based on strong trust.......Your mentor will be your guide through everything.......you do everything your mentor asks you to do.....simple as that....that is why you must have a common strong trust/bond. You must be able to be at your mentor's home to learn everything.

As far as mentoring someone, for the mentor, it's a tough decision.....one needs to be able to look into someone's heart and know they have a passion for the breed, to leave the breed better than you found it.....I would not even consider mentoring someone that just wants to do this for the fun of it, a serious breeder/exhibitor's time and breeding program is much more valuable than that, and to mentor would be doing just that, giving of time and taking away from their own breeding.

Remember the AKC mission statement for showing in conformation "We show to gain approval of our breeding stock"

Thank you Mary for your pm & your contributions to this thread...very interesting! :)

I think several relevant and insightful replies have been posted. I have to agree with RachelandSadie regarding her surprise that a breeder would send a show hopeful across the country. From what I understand, that isn't really the way it works. I believe the breeder will send a puppy with an open registration, but it is hard to fathom that it is a true show prospect. Trust me, I've been there.

I believe showing and breeding to be more of a devotion and commitment to the breed rather than an item to check off a bucket list. I only wish mauirobin the best in this endeavor, but I have to wonder if the cart is in front of the horse in this situation. Perhaps looking for a mentor willing to help you prior to getting your puppy would have been advised if you are serious about succeeding in the ring. I have seen the mentorship info on the AKC website. Is this an avenue you will pursue?

Just my observations and again I wish mauirobin only the best. I look forward to following your journey into the ring.:)

Let me clarify....Yes, reputable breeder/exhibitor's will place show dogs across the country. However, it isn't done with a newbie, unless the newbie has been evaluated and found worthy to be mentored.

Yes, that is what I understand, should have clarified.