Unable to respond
 

Since I posted an alert that appeared on another list,several list as a matter of fact, the thread was locked and only one has been able to respond at will. I would just like to say...this was passed on just as a "be advised, be careful" notice to all exhibitors everywhere of not only "this" group, but from any others. I'm happy to see that the ball has been picked up and many are offering advice to exhibitors of the dangers that can happen. Compared to the number of show that take place daily, instances are rare, but they can happen. It happened at New York..it can happen any where. Our goal is to keep our "little ones" healthy, happy and safe at these events and if and when I hear of something I will pass it along. Let it also be known, that I too am communicating with people to get to the truth. I have no intention of spreading "rumors" but of simply passing on what I have been told.
I would think we might need to get an investigative team on YT to research all the "rumors" about bad breeders, vets, groomers,etc.etc...We wouldn't want to post something unproven, would we.
Am I a little bitter? Yes, possibly. I just felt there could have been an open discussion and yes, when I learn more regarding the incident, I will post my finding also..be they pro or con.
Hope everyone has a happy and safe weekend at the dog show!

I would think we might need to get an investigative team on YT to research all the "rumors" about bad breeders, vets, groomers,etc.etc...We wouldn't want to post something unproven, would we.
Am I a little bitter? Yes, possibly. I just felt there could have been an open discussion and yes, when I learn more regarding the incident, I will post my finding also..be they pro or con.
Hope everyone has a happy and safe weekend at the dog show![/QUOTE]

Mary Ann, I agree with and investigative team because there can be rumors in all areas of this fourm and it's continued to be posted and not closed except for when something is objectable to a certain thing one may not like...again I will say I do NOT care if anyone likes me being a YTCA member because I stand behind what they represent and I don't need to defend my position or theirs because I strongly believe in it and no one will convince me otherwise so therefore no need to defend :)

Donna

I am truely grateful to you for posting your concerns......We all should be aware with what is going on out there. At times in attempts to get the message out quickly to protect our dogs, we do hesitate to search out facts.

I would rather ask for forgiveness than permission when it concerns my dogs. Or err on the side of caution.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: And when I read that post... what was forefront in my brain was that there is a risk to our dogs at the showsite. I don't care if it was PETA or not PETA the point was and is, things can happen at a dog show, by design or by accident, BE Alert, BE Aware. Surely the thread could have been edited rather than closed to take the "offending" PETA section out. IMHO

You know, something was brought to my attention that I had never thought of before.

I usually set up the night before a show begins and leave it set up during the duration of the show. I bring in a Central Metal Mini Fold Crate for potting my dogs, since I don't potty them in the public area. Well I always attach a water bottle and use bottled water to fill it. I've never taken it with me......my bad. I will be very careful not to ever do this again.

It has been very clearly stated how to post an appropriate warning for our dogs and that IT IS SUPPORTED - so follow it.

If it has nothing to do w/ peta, then don't involve peta - if you're concerned about the SAFETY of your dogs, then post about that - don't turn it into something else. PERIOD.

And NO, we will not get into the habit of allowing members to post whatever they wish because "admins and mods can just go back and edit it later" - that is NOT the answer for this type of post, or any other.

This is not a gray area, so don't confuse people or try to muddy the issue.

And if this thread also turns into an argument about something other than what's really going on, then this thread will also be closed. We have rules here at YT and we stand by our decisions. Thank you.

No argument here from me, I think we all got the jist of it :) So, now we can move on :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terrier

I have just got off the phone with Sherry Gibson, President of the Tullahoma Kennel Club of Tennessee. They were the club actually hosting the show on Saturday. I told her of the information I had been given and explained I would like to know exactly what happened. She was very nice and went on to explain they had been trying to get accurate word out to different lists. On Saturday, there were 2 dogs let out of their crates and two men were seen by the crates at the time the dogs were released but they were not caught. Also, there was a woman that has a "fondness" for toy breeds that had been banned from all shows that also was there. She was escorted from the building by security. There is always extra security at this show as they use some of the inmates to clean the grounds, therefore, requiring more law enforcement. Yes, the building was locked down that evening for safety as many shows do. No one was seen to be wearing a "****" (not supposed to say that word) tshirt.
Again, the thread was only meant to alert exhibitors to be careful and keep a close eye on their dogs and belongings..it was never about a "certain organization" as some seem to think.

Thank you Mary Ann for the clarification :)
One has to remember with dog shows there can be "two" or "three" different hosting Kennel Clubs sharing the particular time slot and what happens at one Kennel Club Show may not happen to the other hosting club show and if we were allowed to post this could have also been brought to light :)
We all need to be aware of our surroundings at dog shows and it doesn't matter who or who is not there, it's very important to stay alert!
Thank you again Mary Ann for taking time out and to get the correct information out and clearing up what was probably blown out of proportian but again we can learn from this with cool and clear heads instead of letting our emotions get in the way of things.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Mary Ann, if you have something further to say about YT's decision (which we've clearly made here), please PM me. We made it very clear how to appropriately post warnings so that they are about the DOGS, rather than some other agenda. PERIOD. Move on.

Donna - all of this information was already posted last night here. So, yes, it's nice to have it cleared up twice now - once last night and again today.

People need to move on. If people are finding this issue/section too triggering and cannot move on, we can disable your access to this section if that would be helpful for you.

Chelsea (Barb Beissel's assistant) said that she noticed that the dogs water looked funny today and changed it. She heard later that someone (PETA was mentioned as a suspect but not verified) had been putting antifreeze in the dog's water. Please keep an eye on the water at all times.

I would think it'd always be prudent in any public place to keep water/food under strict supervision. As in, lock (actual lock) the food/water in crate if leaving area or, have a trusted friend/associate watch the area, if they are able to watch it at all times. Or, just throw out food/water if leaving area, as standard practice.

A public place, by definition, is accessible by the public (I know, duh) - and you never know if there are people attending who have compulsions toward animal cruelty, or are trying to steal a dog for a pet, or acting on revenge toward a certain individual, or whatever.

In public, you should take precautions and have increased awareness for potential issues - no matter if it's at a show, going to a pet store, taking a walk, a dog charity event, whatever. Vulnerability is all around us, we should all be cautious.

I never have food at the show grounds and when I have bait I buy it at one of my trusted vendors that I'm good friends with and also I have started putting my dogs water bottle which is compact in my purse not not left out...I've never put out water or food out for my dogs at the show grounds for that very purpose. So yes those that do always be on alert :)
Thanks Tami for sharing and a good tip for those that do have and carry food and water to the show grounds...you need to place this one on the thread I posted for tips at the show ground minus the P word :) Great tip on the water tip :)

Donna Bird

I think making sure the dogs are watched at all times, with or without reports of problems, should be standard practice. Just as a lot of us won't leave our dogs outside alone, dogs shouldn't be left alone at shows. If the handler isn't there, then imo, an associate should be. I honestly couldn't imagine leaving Ellie unattended at a place like that. When in public, one of us has our eyes or hands on her at all times. I wouldn't feel safe any other way.:confused: And if the food or water was left unwatched, I'd be changing it. I'm probably oversimplifying it because I don't show and don't know everythin that goes into it, but I have attended before and walked through the benching area. It just does not seem like a safe place to even turn your back on your dog(s). Way too many people around...

I will have to say I've been quilty of leaving my set up with my dogs unattended and haven't worried about it but like I said sometimes it's a case of false sense of security because normally it doesn't happen on most occassions am I saying I should do it, absolutely not, a mistake on my part but most of the time I know the people set up around me and we all take care of each other but now it seems to be where we can't do that because now I'm more worried about retailation because of jealousy sad to say...my dogs are free to go in and out the doggie door at home and I don't go out with them but then again I have a 6 foot wooden fence and neighbors on all sides front and back that also have fences...but my dogs mostly go out and right back in after they do their business.
I know my practices have changed regarding leaving them unattended.

Donna

The thing is is that when you go to a show - you are usually there for most the day and unfortunately you cannot take the dogs in the bathrooms with you. So unless you have a very large bladder or you have an RV you brought - you have to leave your dog/s with people you (hopefully) know at some part of the day to..... hmmmm... go yourself. Most of the times my hubby comes with me to the shows, but on some occasions, I have been by myself, and have had to leave my dog/s with others. One time (summertime) I did take my girl with me in the bathroom - undercover, but was early and could get her straighten up - coat regroomed. Sure it would be a perfect world to stay with your dogs the whole time, but unfortunetly there are times, when you have to trust others to watch you baby for a moment. Let me tell you - it is the fastest time I have been on a potty break myself. As Donna mentioned already, we usually know one another or have seen one another so much at shows (it is usally the same of us on a regular bases). But if you are first starting out it can be hard.

I have seen a few that have left there dogs alone and not say anything, but I could never do that. I am way too protective - but I am very anal and worry way more than most. You do tend to get a sense of security - since you have seen most of the same people at the shows over and over again. The shows run in circuits.

I've heard about this since NY. What to make of it? It doesn't appear to be statewide much less nationwide. It's isolated if its real.
It's unfair to blame any person or group for anything w/o proof. Odd how many have said anti free appeared in water inside crates. It would take a long time for all the people to do this across the US. Not making headline news? This is a serious allegation. How would anyone know just by looking at it? Not that many people have water coups in their crates at a show. I'm not buying it. Too far fetched. It would be on headline news.

I regret the thread on the was closed. I felt like nobody badmouthed anyone. Then rethought it. If I feel very strong about something I love it. So when people say horrible things about it I can see it being hurtful and personal. As a list mod you make any rules. But, you know we're not the USDA or lab testing animals. Many share similar passions if we could get past the misconceptions. There are radicals out there.

It's not about freedom of speech. It's about respecting one another. We should be about to share opinions w/o being hurtful. Freedom of speech isn't possible in life. Understanding is part of the solution. Not knowing how makes it worst. Your list, your rules. I understand. But you aren't a radicals. You sound like it pains you to hear people be hurtful to anyone. You sound very bright. Ideal candidates to clear the air. Maybe you won't get new members. But you will gain more respect for your mission.

I've also had been guilty of being lax, especially at a Specialty. Specialty events are held in Grand Ballrooms in hotels, where most everyone is familiar and friends with one another. At dog shows there are so many outside entrances into a venue and so many building entrances.....anyone can get into the venue. Yes, there's usually security, but all it takes is one person whose thinking is just a bit off....

I agree. And yes - we all know most of the people at the shows, especially Specialty shows. I was thinking, when at the Memphis Specialty Show, that most often Specialty shows are in hotels, with others checking in and out not showing too. I was only watching at this show, and most were with their owners/handler the whole time. As exhibitors we also try to watch one another dogs though, if someone has an emergency or whatever. We do try to help one another. And one of the ways we help one another is to try and be a guardian over all yorkies.

I do remember a time though when you could go to a show and not have to worry at all! It was a very safe place and safe for all, even for the children and young adults that attend. One one had to worry at all. You could leave something - whether a brush, waterbottle, table, whatever and it would be there when you returned.

Showing still a family affair with family members and friends. And we should have the right to enjoy our time and feel safe when we go today. Unfortunetly this is no longer reality. So sad that it is a few that ruin it for the majority!!

It's worse here. Most shows are held outdoors, one doesn't leave their equipment overnight, least of all leave their dogs unattended. I've always been lucky in the past, traveling with people I knew, taking care of each other....not been that lucky in California, so I've had to become more cautious once more.

Guess I'd better get out and buy that lottery ticket so I can build that house "out back" for you guys and get you back to Texas ...(where you belong).

Mary, I'm sure that is tough having to unload your equipment everyday...we've gotten spoiled here in the TX/OKC area LOL..yeah you need to move back to TX LOL...
When I'm at specialty shows that are held in a hotel that I'm staying at, I never leave my dog at my set up for the most part I normally take back to my room. I've left Radar in his crate in OKC and Houston in the ballroom on occassion but I'm still in the ring area watching someone else but I'm close by but normally at specialty shows I take Radar back to my room.
I will always be aware of my surroundings from now on and to think about it I probably won't be posting publicly anymore even here where I'm going next because for some reason my guard is up and not sure who's watching me anymore.
Donna

Good idea about not letting people where your next show is.

Outdoor shows are another cup of tea altogether. In some ways I love them more, we usually have bbqès at night with our friends, and sometimes the grounds are set in a beautifull park, with lots of hiking trails and even water for the dogs to swim in.

But for us they are an equipment heavy. We need to take fans, and a generator, particularly if there is no electrical on site, and if weève had problems in the past with electricity at that show site. We need awnings, and solar blankets, ice, and coolers of water for the dogs. Because of wider open spaces at least here in Ontario, exhibitors spread out more, so it can be difficult to make sure someone is watching over your set up.

We usually chain our generator to a nearby tree, and remove all water food and grooming tools to our van. We do tend to leave our crates in situ, and travel back to the motel in our van. We have two sets of crates for all our dogs. So one set is always in our van.

It is also harder to know all the exhibitors as they are dispersed throughout the show grounds, and sometimes there is a high public attendance at the shows. With outdoor shows you need to be prepared for rain, hot hot temperatures, or conversly cold temperatures, high winds, etc, whatever Mother Nature decides to throw at you today.
Bathing dogs, particulary large dogs is problematic at best, so our best friend is the waterless bath, raincoats, booties, etc.

Having said all that my hubby and I love the outdoor shows, we love to camp and hike and be outdoors. Razzle is also a good hiker as he showed us last summer on vacation. That little man, went with us as we built up to hikes of 5 hours per day over 2 weeks. I had set up a back pack on our bigger male to take the little one if he tired out. He never did! While our big dogs carried their water, I carried water for Razz so that he didnèt have to.

Yeah gonna keep it kinda quiet where I go these days and only post after I get home :)

Keeping quiet about where you're entered isn't only about safety. It's common practice not to share so much.

I don't share much but it's never mattered to me so much that anyone knew where I was going to show because if what you mean that it might give someone the idea my house is left unattended that's not the case because my husband is always home when I'm at dog shows and it's more common that you know as to exhibitors letting some others know where you're going so we can meet up, here for example, not all have my personal number and for a reason LOL....and for maybe getting someone new to come watch a dog show but now I know it's not always in the best interest for some to know where I'm going :) I never really cared that someone knew where I was going to show and come watch because I love for newbies to come to dog shows and get that experience :) but yes don't share too much :)

Donna

Just wanted to say - this is so interesting :thumbup: Thanks to you all for posting 'experiences' - I've been to shows but never knew all that was involved behind the scenes and it gives me a new appreciation for you show people.

Gemy- I was laughing at yours - the outdoor shows ALMOST sound like a like a vacation :)....I don't think people understand all the hard work involved with these beautiful dogs we all love - I'm one of those - but do like reading about it

Yes, they are a lot of work. It is our of dedication to our breed that we are troopers and tough it out and keep truckin. LOL It is a lot of work. We learn so much by going to the shows.
I remember one show was outside and so cold and windy. It had rained on Saturday and my girl did not like walking in the grass, let alone in wet grass. And then Sunday a cold front came through. We were under a tent, but the wind would just whip through it. We were huddling around our babies to protect them. And we had little heaters too. Have to be well prepared. We did great that day and got a 2nd, even beat a top breeder and I was still new returning. It is days lilke this that keep you going.

Then the last show I was in a month or two ago. It was 17 degree F in the morning. Luckily we had our RV and could stay in there till ring time. That was so much easier with the RV.

It is so nice to go and meet up with old friends and make new friends too. This is where we chit chat and learn too.

Oh, and can't forget the one time - I almost did. Can't believe this time was not the first thing I mentioned. Well, we had bought a used RV (our first one) and was heading to Myrtle Beach. My son in-law and my daughter took off first with the RV still I could not get off earlier from work and they were going to go and get a spot and set up. I think the beach made them want to go this time. Well, on the way the RV stopped. It threw a rod and was not going to make it. We ended up on the side of the road till we could get assistance, by this time we had caught up to them and was dark. We finally got towed into a Wal-Mart parking lot by a hotel at like 6 AM. The hotel people wanted to charge us that night stay if we signed in now, so we sleeped in the car (that my hubby and I were driving - SUV) with three yorkies and a large lab, and all the stuff from the camper that we could get in the car. My knees were up to my chest the whole time I slept. When I woke I did not think my legs would ever move. Then around 8 we checked in to the hotel and the guys looked at the RV. It was dead and not going anywhere. So we tried to get everything out of the camper - towing it home was not an option. Too much for what the RV was worth. We did not go to the show on Sat. trying to call arounnd and get help. But we did make it on Sunday and my girl got her first points that day with my daughter handling her! We have the show photo to remember it by! What a memory! And we did make it to the beach. And to top it off - we had heard about a homeless person that was living in the woods and we gave him the camper. He was still living it as of last year.

Great memories! It was very kind of you to give your camper to someone in need.
I would love an RV but they are so expensive. Maybe one day, my dream will become reality!