learning question

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by LuvndemYorkies

I have heard that the they are breeding bitches that are way over the standard size to the number one yorkie? I also read a post somewhere on here where this was also discussed earlier.
What the heck does this do to keep the integrity of this breed if the people with top ranking yorkies are breeding to way oversized females?
I mean surely that will crop up somewhere along the way say a daughter of this breeding having trouble delivering pups because she is having way oversized pups???
I mean tell me where this helps the breed? It is being discussed how it is so important to have a bitch that should be CHampioned or could be championed etc etc and how she is worth her weight in gold, then explain how these breeding practices of breeding a top ranking dog to such a way oversized bitch. 3 lbs over the size for a yorkie is a way way oversized dog to be bred, let alone to be bred to the top ranked dog? and this is more than just here say. it is being discussed on another list and the person that owns the way oversized bitch has said yes she bred to the top ranked yorkie with this way oversized bitch. and she is on a contract to not place the pups until spayed and neutered.
this makes it very hard to understand, newbies are looking for the right way to breed and when we hear things like this, we loose confidence in those who we think of as experts or stewards of the breed when we hear of such breedings.
any opinions on this? is there a need to breed like this? what is the justice of this type of breeding? is there a reason other than collecting that stud fee?

LOL...the #1 yorkie in the USA is female so I guess someone is just wanting play around with ya

[topknot]

Just becareful with what you hear - remember only listen to 1% of what you hear. Sometimes there can be some that will with say things to get people going and the watch and see where it goes. My belief is you need to see it with your own eyes to really beleive it to be true! JMO

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by LuvndemYorkies

I have heard that the they are breeding bitches that are way over the standard size to the number one yorkie? I also read a post somewhere on here where this was also discussed earlier.
What the heck does this do to keep the integrity of this breed if the people with top ranking yorkies are breeding to way oversized females?
I mean surely that will crop up somewhere along the way say a daughter of this breeding having trouble delivering pups because she is having way oversized pups???
I mean tell me where this helps the breed? It is being discussed how it is so important to have a bitch that should be CHampioned or could be championed etc etc and how she is worth her weight in gold, then explain how these breeding practices of breeding a top ranking dog to such a way oversized bitch. 3 lbs over the size for a yorkie is a way way oversized dog to be bred, let alone to be bred to the top ranked dog? and this is more than just here say. it is being discussed on another list and the person that owns the way oversized bitch has said yes she bred to the top ranked yorkie with this way oversized bitch. and she is on a contract to not place the pups until spayed and neutered.
this makes it very hard to understand, newbies are looking for the right way to breed and when we hear things like this, we loose confidence in those who we think of as experts or stewards of the breed when we hear of such breedings.
any opinions on this? is there a need to breed like this? what is the justice of this type of breeding? is there a reason other than collecting that stud fee?

This is how rumors get out of hand when "YOU SAY YOU HEARD" this or that....think before you post because #1 you got it wrong on the sex of the #1 yorkie which happens to be female. So, again remember what you hear may not always be true. Get facts before you post especially if your new in this endeavor. JMHO

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by LuvndemYorkies

I have heard that the they are breeding bitches that are way over the standard size to the number one yorkie? I also read a post somewhere on here where this was also discussed earlier.
What the heck does this do to keep the integrity of this breed if the people with top ranking yorkies are breeding to way oversized females?
I mean surely that will crop up somewhere along the way say a daughter of this breeding having trouble delivering pups because she is having way oversized pups???
I mean tell me where this helps the breed? It is being discussed how it is so important to have a bitch that should be CHampioned or could be championed etc etc and how she is worth her weight in gold, then explain how these breeding practices of breeding a top ranking dog to such a way oversized bitch. 3 lbs over the size for a yorkie is a way way oversized dog to be bred, let alone to be bred to the top ranked dog? and this is more than just here say. it is being discussed on another list and the person that owns the way oversized bitch has said yes she bred to the top ranked yorkie with this way oversized bitch. and she is on a contract to not place the pups until spayed and neutered.
this makes it very hard to understand, newbies are looking for the right way to breed and when we hear things like this, we loose confidence in those who we think of as experts or stewards of the breed when we hear of such breedings.
any opinions on this? is there a need to breed like this? what is the justice of this type of breeding? is there a reason other than collecting that stud fee?

I don't think most of us that are answering your questions can answer for someone else and what their breeding practices are....It's really none of our business. I do know that those top breeders when allowing their studs to be championed out do so with a very tight contract, insisting anything that isn't shown by the bitch owner will be petted out on a spay/nueter contract. And they do have tight reign by instilling 3rd generation control.

My advice is find a mentor, one that knows what their doing and forget about what everyone else is doing.......

[topknot]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I don't think most of us that are answering your questions can answer for someone else and what their breeding practices are....It's really none of our business. I do know that those top breeders when allowing their studs to be championed out do so with a very tight contract, insisting anything that isn't shown by the bitch owner will be petted out on a spay/nueter contract. And they do have tight reign by instilling 3rd generation control.

My advice is find a mentor, one that knows what their doing and forget about what everyone else is doing.......

I totally agree with you Mary and Donna. I also want to mention that anyone that breeds is a steward of the breed - to protect the breed.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I don't think most of us that are answering your questions can answer for someone else and what their breeding practices are....It's really none of our business. I do know that those top breeders when allowing their studs to be championed out do so with a very tight contract, insisting anything that isn't shown by the bitch owner will be petted out on a spay/nueter contract. And they do have tight reign by instilling 3rd generation control.

My advice is find a mentor, one that knows what their doing and forget about what everyone else is doing.......

Yuppers agreed 100%. I surely can't answer for any other breeder but myself as it's not my business and yes we as breeders should all have a "very" tight contract in place

Donna

[bjh]

Originally Posted by LuvndemYorkies

I have heard that the they are breeding bitches that are way over the standard size to the number one yorkie? I also read a post somewhere on here where this was also discussed earlier.
What the heck does this do to keep the integrity of this breed if the people with top ranking yorkies are breeding to way oversized females?
I mean surely that will crop up somewhere along the way say a daughter of this breeding having trouble delivering pups because she is having way oversized pups???
I mean tell me where this helps the breed? It is being discussed how it is so important to have a bitch that should be CHampioned or could be championed etc etc and how she is worth her weight in gold, then explain how these breeding practices of breeding a top ranking dog to such a way oversized bitch. 3 lbs over the size for a yorkie is a way way oversized dog to be bred, let alone to be bred to the top ranked dog? and this is more than just here say. it is being discussed on another list and the person that owns the way oversized bitch has said yes she bred to the top ranked yorkie with this way oversized bitch. and she is on a contract to not place the pups until spayed and neutered.
this makes it very hard to understand, newbies are looking for the right way to breed and when we hear things like this, we loose confidence in those who we think of as experts or stewards of the breed when we hear of such breedings.
any opinions on this? is there a need to breed like this? what is the justice of this type of breeding? is there a reason other than collecting that stud fee?

If you are talking about breeding a top ranked male to a over sized female then this is my take on this subject. Many show breeders do breed females that are a little over standard and I have no problem with that. While a 10 lb bitch might be a bit large you have to consider her pedigree and her qualities. If she is of outstanding quality, with smaller lines behind her then she could very well produce some nice offspring. Of course, the breeder would want to sell the offspring on a spay and neuter contract if none were show quality. Over size is a fault just like a bad bite, bad topline, etc, but it can be corrected with proper breeding. As for the offspring from a large bitch having whelping problems, it is possible but most likely if they are bred to smaller males with smaller size behind them there should be no problem. I have heard that it is the female that determines the size of the pup in the uterus. Personally, I don't feel comfortable breeding small females, I prefer most of my breeding bitches to be 7 to 8 lbs. I would much rather have a show pup out of a larger bitch with good sound, solid structure than from a 5 or 6 lb bitch that is fine boned with light structure. Some breeders, after they have bred many years, might start getting smaller and smaller pups and it gets harder to get a good show and breeding prospect so they have to bring a little size back into their lines. JMO.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

If you are talking about breeding a top ranked male to a over sized female then this is my take on this subject. Many show breeders do breed females that are a little over standard and I have no problem with that. While a 10 lb bitch might be a bit large you have to consider her pedigree and her qualities. If she is of outstanding quality, with smaller lines behind her then she could very well produce some nice offspring. Of course, the breeder would want to sell the offspring on a spay and neuter contract if none were show quality. Over size is a fault just like a bad bite, bad topline, etc, but it can be corrected with proper breeding. As for the offspring from a large bitch having whelping problems, it is possible but most likely if they are bred to smaller males with smaller size behind them there should be no problem. I have heard that it is the female that determines the size of the pup in the uterus. Personally, I don't feel comfortable breeding small females, I prefer most of my breeding bitches to be 7 to 8 lbs. I would much rather have a show pup out of a larger bitch with good sound, solid structure than from a 5 or 6 lb bitch that is fine boned with light structure. Some breeders, after they have bred many years, might start getting smaller and smaller pups and it gets harder to get a good show and breeding prospect so they have to bring a little size back into their lines. JMO.

I agree with you about having 6, 7 or 8 pound bitches. However, breeding to a male that is smaller is a misnomer..........In order to set type you must line breed....know your lines inside and out. I suggest to anyone that wants breed, show first, and go take genetic, breeding, and whelping clases.....get a mentor that knows what they are doing.....before you proceed

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Pat,

How it was explained to me is that it takes 10 generations before the line becomes yours.

The other thing that was passed down to me, is that some never reach the experienced/exhibitor breeder stage and forever stay and the newbie stage.

As you stated, very rarely to you see Pastoral, Yorkboro, This Time, Exmoor, Rothby and they produce Champions consistently....Occassionaly the do outcross when they begin boxing theirselves in. But, then these people have been doing it for years.

I have been relaxing in the tropics for quite some time..have to think on this...
10 seems a tad high..but I see the logic.
If you look at Tyava's Sure Shot..is he 9 gens of pure Tyava..asking for my own insight..been too long since I looked at ped...
Used an Estugo CH stud recently and I am finding Tiffany all through his..
A friend bred into Orwick...champion is half of each, but in those cases wouldn't it quickly revert back to her line another gen or two...totally thinking out loud.
Most top breeders do not need to go out much, they have several bloodlines that make up their one line...
These are probably questions with no solid answer..good thinking questions...

Whether you show or not.. a breeder needs to be at ring side every chance you get..NY, big specialties etc...

[YorkieRose]

[QUOTE=topknot;2880650]I do not see what you see Barb, I have only seen one dyed dog in all my years of showing and that was years and years ago.

You missed Memphis, right?

[Brooklynn]

[quote=YorkieRose;2880746]

Originally Posted by topknot

I do not see what you see Barb, I have only seen one dyed dog in all my years of showing and that was years and years ago.

You missed Memphis, right?

Tina was in Memphis! I got to finally meet her and it was in Memphis! Love her!! She's awesome!!!

Donna

[Mardelin]

[quote=YorkieRose;2880746]

Originally Posted by topknot

I do not see what you see Barb, I have only seen one dyed dog in all my years of showing and that was years and years ago.

You missed Memphis, right?

I'm rolling here..........

[LuvndemYorkies]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

LOL...the #1 yorkie in the USA is female so I guess someone is just wanting play around with ya

Oh my dear brooklyn let me word this so you understand that i do know what I am speaking of. If you read my post it said A TOP RANKING.
Tell me being the Best of Breed Winner at Westminster 2009 would that not be considered A TOP RANKING??? LOL O LOL

[LuvndemYorkies]

Mardelin, how long have you been showing and breeding?

[Brooklynn]

[QUOTE=LuvndemYorkies;2880674]I have heard that the they are breeding bitches that are way over the standard size to the number one yorkie?

Well, if I read it right you typed it, it was your first sentence Just pointing this out And the top ranked male this year is not Chandler it's Stringer's Something Gotta Give and Sure Shot is not ranked #1 or #2 or #3