learning question

[Brooklynn]

Also, will I ever have an established line of my own, probably not as I'm 46 years old and do not plan on doing this in my 80's and I feel that would be when I could say I have my own lines...so credit is given to the breeders that entrust me with "their" lines and keep it safe. If anyone were to ask me to use my stud and they are not activily showing I would say NO! If someone were to ask me to purchase a show quality bitch or male and are not activily showing I wouldn't sell you one period.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

hehehe
you got it i have good ear sets so far and have not needed to tie i just found it intresting i would be scared to death i would get caught
so i just gave up on the dying
my dog is what it is her tail will just have to be a tad light

Rose, I recently had someone tell me that judges look for variances in the coat pattern. They said that a dyed coat will be uniformly the same color and a undyed coat with have a few variations of color. Don't know if it is true of not but it was interesting.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

Rose, I recently had someone tell me that judges look for variances in the coat pattern. They said that a dyed coat will be uniformly the same color and a undyed coat with have a few variations of color. Don't know if it is true of not but it was interesting.

LOL...if a coat is dyed correctly you'll have the variations in color....I've seen some really bad dye jobs personally and I've seen a really good one and the only reason I've seen the really good one was when I actually saw the dog in person when it wasn't dyed....and that was by mistake ROFL!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

LOL...if a coat is dyed correctly you'll have the variations in color....I've seen some really bad dye jobs personally and I've seen a really good one and the only reason I've seen the really good one was when I actually saw the dog in person when it wasn't dyed....and that was by mistake ROFL!

Yes, you can tell sometimes if you follow certain dogs in the ring. One weekend they are a little light and the next time you see them they are darker. I suppose most judges have seen so much enhancing going on that they probably just try to judge coat texture and conformation and they don't worry so much about color unless it is way off. Like you said, there are much more important things to focus on than color.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

LOL...if a coat is dyed correctly you'll have the variations in color....I've seen some really bad dye jobs personally and I've seen a really good one and the only reason I've seen the really good one was when I actually saw the dog in person when it wasn't dyed....and that was by mistake ROFL!

Totally agree, if applied like it should be, even if you are just coloring spots.....there should be variances in the color. If applied correctly, no one should be able to tell.

Think about it....if a coat is light in an area.....and you only apply to that area and blend it as it should be.....it's still going to be lighter than the other areas......hence the variance.

Actually, what the judge is feeling for is the coolness of the coat....if you apply the color the morning of a show it will not feel as cool to the touch......It's best to apply the night before, giving it a chance to cool.....

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

Yes, you can tell sometimes if you follow certain dogs in the ring. One weekend they are a little light and the next time you see them they are darker. I suppose most judges have seen so much enhancing going on that they probably just try to judge coat texture and conformation and they don't worry so much about color unless it is way off. Like you said, there are much more important things to focus on than color.

I think you finally got it But again, I believe you are seeing most not dying much anymore for in fear of the DQ and just holding on until they clear in color on the head ect...but the art of enhancing has gotten so good that it really is hard to tell if one is colored or not but that is beside the point because I could care less if the dog is colored if it has the structure, movement, good top lines, good fronts and rears...unless it's a really bad dye job that I can't get past to see the good structure and I've seen that too...unfortunately...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I think you finally got it But again, I believe you are seeing most not dying much anymore for in fear of the DQ and just holding on until they clear in color on the head ect...but the art of enhancing has gotten so good that it really is hard to tell if one is colored or not but that is beside the point because I could care less if the dog is colored if it has the structure, movement, good top lines, good fronts and rears...unless it's a really bad dye job that I can't get past to see the good structure and I've seen that too...unfortunately...

You know I witnessed a judge hold first and second place ribbons in the classes, (only 2 dogs in the ring) because of poor dye jobs (lavender)....didn't dq, but told the exhibitors, that the color on their dogs was incorrect.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You know I witnessed a judge hold first and second place ribbons in the classes, (only 2 dogs in the ring) because of poor dye jobs (lavender)....didn't dq, but told the exhibitors, that the color on their dogs was incorrect.

I haven't personally seen that and lord only knows it should have been done when I've seen it but I'm not the judge LOL...if you are gonna dye in my opinion do it right LOL

[topknot]

I do not see what you see Barb, I have only seen one dyed dog in all my years of showing and that was years and years ago. Not bad. I have heard things - but you know what they say - only listen to 1% of what you hear - most is gossip and that is just what it is. It would be hard for me to remember in my mind a color of a yorkie from one show to another with all the yorkies at a show - JMO.

I still consider myself a newbie - but more intermediate. I use to show years ago and then took a break to raise my own family. Now that the kids are grown, I have return to showing/breeding. I first had to catch up on all the new lines and learn where they all came from. A lot of research, and took me years to do! Then I had to also learn how to put in a good topknot and still working on that one. LOL
When I decided to purchase my yorkies to return - you better believe I tried to get the best I could (quality of dog/quality of line and they better be champion sired/damed) and it was not cheap. You cannot take short cuts!! And yes, you have to have them tested and evaluated by experts to make sure of what you have! I should also mention a lot of time invested as well.

You can have all the coat in the world on a dog, but without great stucture and movement (health still being number one) you do not have a worthy dog worth breeding. JMO

I do not like breeding much myself - I get way too worried, but I find it necessary. I only breed after great research and making sure it is the best match with standard always in mind. And I only breed when I am wanting another baby for myself to show. I truly beleive that if you are going to do something - you better make sure it is the best possible (notice I did not say your best - But the best possible). No short cuts here either!! There is way too much at stake. JMO

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by topknot

I do not see what you see Barb, I have only seen one dyed dog in all my years of showing and that was years and years ago. Not bad. I have heard things - but you know what they say - only listen to 1% of what you hear - most is gossip and that is just what it is. It would be hard for me to remember in my mind a color of a yorkie from one show to another with all the yorkies at a show - JMO.

I still consider myself a newbie - but more intermediate. I use to show years ago and then took a break to raise my own family. Now that the kids are grown, I have return to showing/breeding. I first had to catch up on all the new lines and learn where they all came from. A lot of research, and took me years to do! Then I had to also learn how to put in a good topknot and still working on that one. LOL
When I decided to purchase my yorkies to return - you better believe I tried to get the best I could (quality of dog/quality of line and they better be champion sired/damed) and it was not cheap. You cannot take short cuts!! And yes, you have to have them tested and evaluated by experts to make sure of what you have! I should also mention a lot of time invested as well.

You can have all the coat in the world on a dog, but without great stucture and movement (health still being number one) you do not have a worthy dog worth breeding. JMO

I do not like breeding much myself - I get way too worried, but I find it necessary. I only breed after great research and making sure it is the best match with standard always in mind. And I only breed when I am wanting another baby for myself to show. I truly beleive that if you are going to do something - you better make sure it is the best possible (notice I did not say your best - But the best possible). No short cuts here either!! There is way too much at stake. JMO

Agreed 100%!!! No short cuts at all....

[bjh]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

bjh..if you bred a female from your 7 gens to a champion stud service to establish a show potential litter, I would consider the results a blend of your line and the other breeder to produce a new potentials, very common..one breeding can not cancel out 7 generations...
BUT I feel is it nearly impossible to produce a show potential from generations of "in house" breeding unless you are seeing top of the line show pups now. The best go out for stud service also...look at the best peds...

I agree with this but as you know it is not easy to find a champion stud because many show breeders will only breed to champions. For newbies trying to better their lines it is not always a easy task. I do have two nice males with champion lines, one is champion sired and one has champions starting on the 2nd generation and I am hoping their good qualities when combined with some of my nicer females will get me going on the right track. I am pleased so far with what I am seeing.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

I agree with this but as you know it is not easy to find a champion stud because many show breeders will only breed to champions. For newbies trying to better their lines it is not always a easy task. I do have two nice males with champion lines, one is champion sired and one has champions starting on the 2nd generation and I am hoping their good qualities when combined with some of my nicer females will get me going on the right track. I am pleased so far with what I am seeing.

Once you start getting in the ring on a regular basis you might see that change Barb Show breeders have to see that you are serious so once you start activiley showing they might open up to more newbies. But on a serious note a lot of show breeders are getting burned more and more these days and it's even getting harder for us that are serious to have them trust us that are very serious in this endeavor.

Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

I do not see what you see Barb, I have only seen one dyed dog in all my years of showing and that was years and years ago. Not bad. I have heard things - but you know what they say - only listen to 1% of what you hear - most is gossip and that is just what it is. It would be hard for me to remember in my mind a color of a yorkie from one show to another with all the yorkies at a show - JMO.

I still consider myself a newbie - but more intermediate. I use to show years ago and then took a break to raise my own family. Now that the kids are grown, I have return to showing/breeding. I first had to catch up on all the new lines and learn where they all came from. A lot of research, and took me years to do! Then I had to also learn how to put in a good topknot and still working on that one. LOL
When I decided to purchase my yorkies to return - you better believe I tried to get the best I could (quality of dog/quality of line and they better be champion sired/damed) and it was not cheap. You cannot take short cuts!! And yes, you have to have them tested and evaluated by experts to make sure of what you have! I should also mention a lot of time invested as well.

You can have all the coat in the world on a dog, but without great stucture and movement (health still being number one) you do not have a worthy dog worth breeding. JMO

I do not like breeding much myself - I get way too worried, but I find it necessary. I only breed after great research and making sure it is the best match with standard always in mind. And I only breed when I am wanting another baby for myself to show. I truly beleive that if you are going to do something - you better make sure it is the best possible (notice I did not say your best - But the best possible). No short cuts here either!! There is way too much at stake. JMO

I agree with you one hundred percent....no short cuts......as I've said before, if you want a short cut go to the barber.

I also know you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.....Buy the best foundation.......Not a watered down pedigre that doesn't have Champions in the first 3 generations.......by that time it's been watered down by those that don't know what they're doing......

I like you only breed when I want my next baby to show.....sometimes it doesn't work out....the genes just didn't mix up well.....and on to the next one. I hate breeding......not my thing.

[topknot]

Originally Posted by bjh

I agree with this but as you know it is not easy to find a champion stud because many show breeders will only breed to champions. For newbies trying to better their lines it is not always a easy task. I do have two nice males with champion lines, one is champion sired and one has champions starting on the 2nd generation and I am hoping their good qualities when combined with some of my nicer females will get me going on the right track. I am pleased so far with what I am seeing.

I have never had any problems using someone else's top quality champion studs. One girl I had was not a champion, but I will have her out soon. I was actually told by the stud's owner, to get her out in the ring since she was a really nice bitch! It really is all about reputation, your ethics, whether they can trust you, and quality of your dog. It is all these when they consider to allow someone to breed to their dog. And they must consider all these things before allowing someone to use their stud. And you do have to get in the ring to show them you are wanting to do the best you can and also so they get to know you.

[LuvndemYorkies]

I have heard that the they are breeding bitches that are way over the standard size to the number one yorkie? I also read a post somewhere on here where this was also discussed earlier.
What the heck does this do to keep the integrity of this breed if the people with top ranking yorkies are breeding to way oversized females?
I mean surely that will crop up somewhere along the way say a daughter of this breeding having trouble delivering pups because she is having way oversized pups???
I mean tell me where this helps the breed? It is being discussed how it is so important to have a bitch that should be CHampioned or could be championed etc etc and how she is worth her weight in gold, then explain how these breeding practices of breeding a top ranking dog to such a way oversized bitch. 3 lbs over the size for a yorkie is a way way oversized dog to be bred, let alone to be bred to the top ranked dog? and this is more than just here say. it is being discussed on another list and the person that owns the way oversized bitch has said yes she bred to the top ranked yorkie with this way oversized bitch. and she is on a contract to not place the pups until spayed and neutered.
this makes it very hard to understand, newbies are looking for the right way to breed and when we hear things like this, we loose confidence in those who we think of as experts or stewards of the breed when we hear of such breedings.
any opinions on this? is there a need to breed like this? what is the justice of this type of breeding? is there a reason other than collecting that stud fee?